The human side of the railway...

[The Stationmaster]

47484 'Isambard Kingdom Brunel' at Cardiff - 12th March, 1976 by Deadman's Handle, on Flickr

Complete I do believe with Snowdens' fish market (the illuminated sign) in the background.

[rab]

OK, so where did all the enthusiasts travel in that train?

The caption on the flicker page does say they were running round the stock which is probably just out of shot.

[roythebus]

I thought I.K.Brunel died long before the introduction of diesel locos, and the chap in the photo doesn't have long sideburns or a top hat!

Edited February 6, 2015 by roythebus

[BR(S)]

Not something often seen, the fireman shovelling coal.  Worth watching some of his other "pacing" videos as well.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LPCUR82RoGM#t=29

[Welchester]

Yesterday on the GCR:

7820 having recovered failed 1501 and train.

[Classsix T]

Work going on at Needham Market at the moment. What is noticeable is none of the guys I've heard have a local accent, though I believe they're non NR contractors, so perhaps not surprising.

 

 

C6T.

[Southernman46]

Well technically they are supposed to have the their company name & logo displayed on their PPE.

 

and that chain stick is very, very, close to the OLE in terms of being less than 2.75m away and they are metal and it's probably damp too (weather). Might have an OLE isolation but I bet not.

 

The chainmans' hard hat is not being worn correctly nor he is not dressed correctly.

 

If they're working open line - the presence of the photographer suggest that trains ARE running - Who's the site lookout ? Look at that RH curve - no way is that sufficient sighting at 60mph or + linespeed (the 50 TSR certainly suggests something higher) especially as "blue hat" doesn't have a place of  safety behind him - he's also got a few seconds of equipment moving to do before he even starts to move sideways to the place of safety - hopefully not tripping over that concrete location base in doing so - NOT good.

 

Who is the COSS - the blue hat can't be, the LH guy has no badge displayed and the chainman - well I hope he isn't 'cos the SSOW stinks !

 

If I was NR, I'd want to review this................................

Edited February 11, 2015 by Southernman46

[phil-b259]

Well technically they are supposed to have the their company name & logo displayed on their PPE.

 

and that chain stick is very, very, close to the OLE in terms of being less than 2.75m away and they are metal and it's probably damp too (weather). Might have an OLE isolation but I bet not.

 

The chainmans' hard hat is not being worn correctly nor he is not dressed correctly.

 

If they're working open line - the presence of the photographer suggest that trains ARE running - Who's the site lookout ? Look at that RH curve - no way is that sufficient sighting at 60mph or + linespeed (the 50 TSR certainly suggests something higher) especially as "blue hat" doesn't have a place of  safety behind him - he's also got a few seconds of equipment moving to do before he even starts to move sideways to the place of safety - hopefully not tripping over that concrete location base in doing so - NOT good.

 

Who is the COSS - the blue hat can't be, the LH guy has no badge displayed and the chainman - well I hope he isn't 'cos the SSOW stinks !

 

If I was NR, I'd want to review this................................

 

While I don't mean to condone bad practices, a few thoughts spring to mind.

 

While I do agree with what your comments as regards COSS and lookout I would just say it is possible (though unlikely I agree) that a line blockage had been taken for the work (signal protection only would be sufficient) - in which case the blue hatter standing were he is wouldn't be an issue as such (though if that was the case and the nearest line was still open to traffic or all where lines were blocked but the OHLE was live, the required 'Site Warden' doesn't seam to be present).

 

Also can I ask why you assume the chain stock is metal? Not using such things myself, could they not be Fibreglass (or whatever else that strong plastic stuff is). Point taken about the dampness though and as I don't work with OHLE, I cannot comment on distances.

 

As for the no logo - two out of the three are facing forwards and as you will know the names / logos on the front of the jackets / t-shirts, etc are very small so its not surprising you cannot see them from the distance the photo is taken. If the two people with coats had been photographed with their backs to you then the chances of any logo being readily visible would have been much grater. It is perhaps unfair to accuse them of not having any company names on their PPE when we cannot tell from the photo whether they do or not.

 

I certainly accept the point about the chap without the coat on the platform although again we cannot be 100% sure he didn't have a coat (which may or may not have the sponsors name on it) and has taken it off because he is too hot for example - though obviously in such a case the correct procedure would be to remove his jumper and put the coat back on thus complying with the 'all orange' rules.

 

Finally as for hard hats, yes I totally agree that the chap involved is not wearing it properly but....

 

...While I obviously have to wear one, I have no problem admitting I HATE wearing the bloody things. I know that is no excuse for not wearing them properly but in my opinion they provide no additional protection when undertaking routine S&T tasks and nobody has ever been able to present me with a proper risk assessment that proves they are needed for undertaking routine S&T maintenance or faulting tasks such as dealing with a point failure or testing track circuits for example. As with the blanket imposition of safety harnesses to climb ALL signal structures regardless of how high they are I believe think that it actually gives H&S a bad name. By all means provide them and mandate their use when a risk assessment says you need them (I would love to see the justification for them when testing a track circuit for example), but a blanket instruction says to me (we are to lazy to do a proper assessment so we will pick the easy option and impose them in all conditions).

 

Mind you there is a case of "if you don't know any different" here - I started back in 2001 under AMEC when we still had slam door trains with large windows people could chuck stuff out of and in theory the chances of something hitting your head was a lot higher than today. These days any new starter has never worked without hard hats being mandatory so is far less likely to have an issue with the things.

 

However that doesn't mean I am not blind to changes in PPE policy - The "all orange" policy does strike me as entirely sensible in all situations (particularly after a near miss in Wales when someone wearing just a high vis jacket was bending over to look at something in the 4ft and without high vis trousers on became rather invisible to an approaching driver).

Edited February 11, 2015 by phil-b259

[96701]

Damp or not, you and anything that you are carrying shall be no closer than 2.75 metres (9 ft). Try enforcing that on a platform next to a train or loco with a pantograph.

[phil-b259]

Try enforcing that on a platform next to a train or loco with a pantograph.

 

???

[Hals1967]

12th March 1984, 08567 waits in the yard at Goole whilst some work is carried out on the rusty rails.

 

[Hals1967]

The driver of 31448 appears to be amused at something whilst departing York.

 

[talisman56]

The driver of 31448 appears to be amused at something whilst departing York.

 

You'll have to tell us what you were wearing that day...

[The Stationmaster]

???

Simples - a platform could be less than 2 metres wide (i.e. right on the 6ft minimum) thus depending on how high the whatever it is you are using happens to be and the slant angle you piece of kit could very easily be within 2.75 metres of the overhead.  Standing at a platform edge with a tall item is of course slightly nearer to lunacy or queueing up for a Darwin award.

 

The 2.75 metres does build in something of a safety margin to allow for idiots but judging by Southerman's pic it might not cater for all of them - unless there is a lot we don't know about such things as a Lookoutman and ohle isolation.

[Classsix T]

As the one who took it, a little more info on the Needham pic.

Site safety bods are on the same platform, about two to three carriage lengths behind me. Trains are running on both lines. The (marked) down line TSR has been in place longer than I care to remember, the up line has recently had one introduced, although I believe it applies to a section further from the station, it could possibly be as low as 20mph. Either way, they're not pelting along where friend theodolite operator is and as the lines curve away behind me the lookout is I would suggest in the best place to give fair warning of the faster of approaching trains.

Drivers obviously informed via notices as much tootling of horns apparent.

I'm not going to mention the contractor name seen on a van that morning as these guys may well not be from the same.

 

C6T.

[96701]

???

 

 

Simples - a platform could be less than 2 metres wide (i.e. right on the 6ft minimum) thus depending on how high the whatever it is you are using happens to be and the slant angle you piece of kit could very easily be within 2.75 metres of the overhead.  Standing at a platform edge with a tall item is of course slightly nearer to lunacy or queueing up for a Darwin award.

 

The 2.75 metres does build in something of a safety margin to allow for idiots but judging by Southerman's pic it might not cater for all of them - unless there is a lot we don't know about such things as a Lookoutman and ohle isolation.

Also, a member of the public standing next to a pantograph is technically within 2.75m of live equipment. If you can imagine a human of normal height standing on the platform, look at where the pantograph finishes. That person doesn't need to be carrying anything to be within 2.75m.

 

http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-british-rail-class-91-national-express-train-91111-electric-locomotive-37955909.html

[Hals1967]

Crew change at Doncaster on a Southbound MGR, 30 June 1984.

 

 

[phil-b259]

Also, a member of the public standing next to a pantograph is technically within 2.75m of live equipment. If you can imagine a human of normal height standing on the platform, look at where the pantograph finishes. That person doesn't need to be carrying anything to be within 2.75m.

 

http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-british-rail-class-91-national-express-train-91111-electric-locomotive-37955909.html

 

I know.

 

This is where the railway really makes a fool of itself again in my opinion. Basically if it lets ordinary members of the public stand there without high vis on etc WHY do WE, who have undergone quite a lot of special H&S training, treated differently and are forbidden to stand in the same place?

Edited February 16, 2015 by phil-b259

[Southernman46]

Once worked with a guy on electrification who was 6'9" tall..............the fun we had  

[The Stationmaster]

I know.

 

This is where the railway really makes a fool of itself again in my opinion. Basically if it lets ordinary members of the public stand there with on high vis on etc WHY do WE, who have undergone quite a lot of special H&S training, treated differently and are forbidden to stand in the same place?

It is because of the way 'safety' has become a word to be spouted in reports etc rather than a habit.

 

However in the case of the 2.75 metres I have an idea that it might stem from an incident involving a ladder, which was being carried - not used, a good many years ago and it was swung round in an unfortunate direction with spectacular results as it got within flashover distance of some 25kv overhead.

[Classsix T]

Further information on the Needham work. TSR on the up line is 40mph (funny how slowed down trains on a usually 90mph railway really do seem to crawl along).

Whilst I didn't think at the time the safety of the boys pictured was in much doubt, seeing our theodolite operator friend manhandle the tripodic beast across two tracks on his own didn't seem to be the most fail safe working practice method to me. Still, my years out of date MNR PTS and personal opinion quite rightly shouldn't count for much!

 

And now back to your regular programme...

 

C6T.

[Michael Delamar]

Taking a turn (pjs,0388) by geoff7918, on Flickr

[Oldddudders]

phil-b259, on 12 Feb 2015 - 22:16, said:

I know.

 

This is where the railway really makes a fool of itself again in my opinion. Basically if it lets ordinary members of the public stand there with on high vis on etc WHY do WE, who have undergone quite a lot of special H&S training, treated differently and are forbidden to stand in the same place?

And it was this sort of idiot logic that helped me leave the railway. If I was travelling in my own time on my status pass I could alight at any station and wander around public areas. If I was on duty, in order to wander the same areas I needed to sign in with station management. No way, Jose!

 

As a third rail sort of person - i.e. used to stepping over it in paid time - I found it mildly disturbing to stand on the platform at MKC on one occasion in a seasonal mist which meant I could feel a distinct "pull" from the OLE. Instructive. 

[The Stationmaster]

And it was this sort of idiot logic that helped me leave the railway. If I was travelling in my own time on my status pass I could alight at any station and wander around public areas. If I was on duty, in order to wander the same areas I needed to sign in with station management. No way, Jose!

 

You mean to say you didn't need a Lookoutman?

 

But more seriously where did you have to sign-in - that's a new one on me.  Obviously polite to let them know if you happen to be there on business unless they're expecting you and obviously prior arrangements to be made if going lineside etc but otherwise I couldn't see the point of signing-in if you're in public areas.

[Oldddudders]

This was doing informal surveying work - i.e. no measuring equipment in use - in advance of a Customer Info System spec being prepared. So I might at best make a few notes about what was where and what might work best. A few minutes at each station, then off on the next train. Once again the people who prepared safety requirements and the like had no concept of what some of us did for the employer.

 

In my day as an SM people from all sorts of departments came and went as they wished, attending to their equipment, their store-rooms etc as required. I refused to feel any responsibility for these people. Even then, rather more than 30 years ago, the safety gurus were trying to say otherwise.