RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted December 27, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 27, 2009 Thanks John.Very nice.Are there any bits to add to the model in the box and whats the haulage capacity.Is the coad load removeable like the Grange ? Sorry for all the questions ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 Hi Robin, No problem, mate! Bits to add are front screw coupling, front NEM pocket and brake rigging for loco & tender and tender vacuum pipe. Coal load is removeable AND there is even a coal "spill" for the tender footplate. Haulage wise, she'll take a rake of 7 Bachmann Mk1's up my grades of 1 in 36 and around my curves, some of which are down to 2nd radius! In fact, now she's run in a bit more, she'll probably handle 8 with comfort - thats not bad, eh? . I'd buy it again, any day! Cheers, John E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted December 27, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 27, 2009 Hi Robin, No problem, mate! Bits to add are front screw coupling, front NEM pocket and brake rigging for loco & tender and tender vacuum pipe. Coal load is removeable AND there is even a coal "spill" for the tender footplate. Haulage wise, she'll take a rake of 7 Bachmann Mk1's up my grades of 1 in 36 and around my curves, some of which are down to 2nd radius! In fact, now she's run in a bit more, she'll probably handle 8 with comfort - thats not bad, eh? . I'd buy it again, any day! Cheers, John E. That sounds promising.Will you be changing its idendity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
redline41190 Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 That sounds promising.Will you be changing its idendity. I'll be changing mine to 5080 "Defiant" I don't know if the Hornby Earl Cairns is 100% correct for it but it will do for me, I'm no rivet counter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted December 27, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 27, 2009 I'll be changing mine to 5080 "Defiant" I don't know if the Hornby Earl Cairns is 100% correct for it but it will do for me, I'm no rivet counter Had a quick look for you and the only detail difference that I see is 'Defiant' had/has exposed rear sanding gear/pipes.The model has them correctly for 'Earl Cairns' hidden. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 28, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 28, 2009 I'll be changing mine to 5080 "Defiant" I don't know if the Hornby Earl Cairns is 100% correct for it but it will do for me, I'm no rivet counter It may well have changed (some bits probably did!) but mid/late 1950s 5080 was running with a Collett tender, had the original straight pattern outside steam pipes, the later pattern external sandboxes under the cab, original GWR type hydrostatic lubricators, and tapered front buffer housings. Appearance wise some of the other 'aircraft' series are nearer to 5053 as it comes from Hornby but not strictly accurate as from what I can find any which had been converted to later pattern outside steam pipes had mechanical lubricators and 4 row superheaters. I wouldn't worry about the tender as swops happened every time a loco was shopped (and sometimes between). The other differences from 5053 noted above are a matter of choice as to whether or not you are going to be pernickety on detail ..... and as you're not counting rivets you have your answer . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrock Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 This really does look to be a superb model...a good advance on the previous version. Can anyone confirm the earlier point about the tender...does it use the same single drawbar as the old model and the existing hawksworth tender? I wonder if this means the collett tender will also b re-used? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted December 31, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2009 This really does look to be a superb model...a good advance on the previous version. Can anyone confirm the earlier point about the tender...does it use the same single drawbar as the old model and the existing hawksworth tender? I wonder if this means the collett tender will also b re-used? I hope not ! I understood it to being a 'whole' new model with a new Collett/Hawksworth tender as well.The old Hawksworth tender dates back to Dapol when they released Neath Abbey with one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 What's the body width of the Hornby Hawksworth tender? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 The 'Earl' plates (or perhaps only some of them?) were not concentric with the driving splashers of a 'Castle' as they were, of course, originally made to fit on the 4-4-0s. Most modellers worth their salt would be fitting engraved brass plates anyway, and these are generally correct. Larry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
neal Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 I hope not ! I understood it to being a 'whole' new model with a new Collett/Hawksworth tender as well.The old Hawksworth tender dates back to Dapol when they released Neath Abbey with one. The tender is also a completely new tooling, with new chassis design with pick-ups both sides, and accommodating decoder socket and mount for speaker. The draw-bar is akin to the T9 etc with two distance settings, although the closer one will easily allow 3rd radius curves to be traversed. The tender moulding is a lot finer than the Dapol version, and is held in place by a tab at the rear, and two screws at the front. This is easy to remove, and I managed to do this without unplugging the loco connector lead when swapping a decoder. A two part coal moulding is provided. This model is beautiful, and runs very smoothly with all the grace of the big-wheel GW 4-6-0's. Detail in the cab is again very fine with clear sight glasses, and gauges with needles and markings. The speedometer drive (a dummy on the Dapol version) is actually connected to the rear right hand driver, with a rivetted crank fixed to the wheel. I have had a few duffers from Hornby in 2009 (including T9 and Std 4) which have had to be sent back with pieces missing or broken, however this model cannot be faulted. I hope that this indicates Hornby are on top of their quality control problems. Faith restored, and 28xx ordered! N Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted December 31, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2009 The tender is also a completely new tooling, with new chassis design with pick-ups both sides, and accommodating decoder socket and mount for speaker. The draw-bar is akin to the T9 etc with two distance settings, although the closer one will easily allow 3rd radius curves to be traversed. The tender moulding is a lot finer than the Dapol version, and is held in place by a tab at the rear, and two screws at the front. This is easy to remove, and I managed to do this without unplugging the loco connector lead when swapping a decoder. A two part coal moulding is provided. This model is beautiful, and runs very smoothly with all the grace of the big-wheel GW 4-6-0's. Detail in the cab is again very fine with clear sight glasses, and gauges with needles and markings. The speedometer drive (a dummy on the Dapol version) is actually connected to the rear right hand driver, with a rivetted crank fixed to the wheel. I have had a few duffers from Hornby in 2009 (including T9 and Std 4) which have had to be sent back with pieces missing or broken, however this model cannot be faulted. I hope that this indicates Hornby are on top of their quality control problems. Faith restored, and 28xx ordered! N Thanks Neal.That sounds delicious. :icon_drool: I look forward to seeing a Collett tender version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 7013 Posted January 1, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 1, 2010 Looks absolutely beautiful, I will be getting Ince Castle and converting it to Bristol Castle (What else!). I do have last years Bristol Castle which I have detailed, this will be getting a makeover to Dunmore Castle in slightly grimey condition to cover the antiquated tooling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 1, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 1, 2010 Looks absolutely beautiful, I will be getting Ince Castle and converting it to Bristol Castle (What else!). I do have last years Bristol Castle which I have detailed, this will be getting a makeover to Dunmore Castle in slightly grimey condition to cover the antiquated tooling. Ah, but which 7013? Will it be the original one (which ran at least part of the time with a Collett style tender with a welded tank, as did 'Ince Castle'), or the post February 1952 one, or the post 1952 one after it acquired a double chimney, 4 row superheater, new front frames and inside cylinders, and a lubricator reservoir? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
redline41190 Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 It may well have changed (some bits probably did!) but mid/late 1950s 5080 was running with a Collett tender, had the original straight pattern outside steam pipes, the later pattern external sandboxes under the cab, original GWR type hydrostatic lubricators, and tapered front buffer housings. Appearance wise some of the other 'aircraft' series are nearer to 5053 as it comes from Hornby but not strictly accurate as from what I can find any which had been converted to later pattern outside steam pipes had mechanical lubricators and 4 row superheaters. I wouldn't worry about the tender as swops happened every time a loco was shopped (and sometimes between). The other differences from 5053 noted above are a matter of choice as to whether or not you are going to be pernickety on detail ..... and as you're not counting rivets you have your answer . Well thats settled Still waiting on Rails to see what they say about taking in some of my unwanted locos/coaches towards the price of Earl Cairns. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahoon_danny Posted January 2, 2010 Author Share Posted January 2, 2010 The tender is also a completely new tooling, with new chassis design with pick-ups both sides, and accommodating decoder socket and mount for speaker. The draw-bar is akin to the T9 etc with two distance settings, although the closer one will easily allow 3rd radius curves to be traversed. The tender moulding is a lot finer than the Dapol version, and is held in place by a tab at the rear, and two screws at the front. This is easy to remove, and I managed to do this without unplugging the loco connector lead when swapping a decoder. A two part coal moulding is provided. This model is beautiful, and runs very smoothly with all the grace of the big-wheel GW 4-6-0's. Detail in the cab is again very fine with clear sight glasses, and gauges with needles and markings. The speedometer drive (a dummy on the Dapol version) is actually connected to the rear right hand driver, with a rivetted crank fixed to the wheel. I have had a few duffers from Hornby in 2009 (including T9 and Std 4) which have had to be sent back with pieces missing or broken, however this model cannot be faulted. I hope that this indicates Hornby are on top of their quality control problems. Faith restored, and 28xx ordered! N Are the tenders easily disconnected or are they more firmly coupled together as per the new truro? Im considering doing some major tender swappage... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 Speaking as a Western fan from a distance, I rate the 'Castle' amongst the top most beautiful designs and so will be having one just to look at while I'm on the PC. I used to see them in Chester while passing through and so set off for that city one day in order to travel behind a Castle as far as Wrexham. Dammit if the London Midland hadn't taken over and put ex LMS Jubilee's on WR trains! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 7013 Posted January 2, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 2, 2010 Yes Stationmaster good point, I am aware of the famous 'swap' with Windsor Castle. TBH I would like to model the latter loco double chimney etc. I was hoping (naively) Ince would be a straight swap but of course it will not be, so my dilema is finding a Castle from the new Hornby range that I could convert to Bristol Castle with the minimum of fuss, I am not aversed to a bit of super detailing so I have no qualms about chopping around a bit. Any suggestions on which Castle may represent the best option to convert? I am also looking for a good book on the Castle, I know that there is one in the 'Power of' series, but I believe there is a new publication, has anyone compared either book or can they recommend one or t'other. Just thinking what a nice boxed set Windsor Castle and Bristol Castle would make with their respective histories and background to the changeover. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 My 'bible' on Castles has been 'Portaites of the 'Castles' by Holden & Leech (Moorland Publishing Company) since 1981. Every ''Castle is illustrated and most were photographed while carrying the early BR totem. No doubt more recent books will give fuller technical coverage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted January 2, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 2, 2010 Yes Stationmaster good point, I am aware of the famous 'swap' with Windsor Castle. TBH I would like to model the latter loco double chimney etc. I was hoping (naively) Ince would be a straight swap but of course it will not be, so my dilema is finding a Castle from the new Hornby range that I could convert to Bristol Castle with the minimum of fuss, I am not aversed to a bit of super detailing so I have no qualms about chopping around a bit. Any suggestions on which Castle may represent the best option to convert? I am also looking for a good book on the Castle, I know that there is one in the 'Power of' series, but I believe there is a new publication, has anyone compared either book or can they recommend one or t'other. Just thinking what a nice boxed set Windsor Castle and Bristol Castle would make with their respective histories and background to the changeover. I have the new Irwell 'Book of the Castles' which is a mighty tome with every member depicted.I also have the power series book you mention which is excellent as well with some nice pre war photos in it.I'd buy them both !In fact theres a cracking shot[Power book] by Dick Riley with 5043 Earl of Plymouth on the Royal Duchy at Dainton that might convince me to buy a BR early crest version myself ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted January 2, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 2, 2010 Looking at a photograph (all be it not a very clear one) would Earl Cairns be a suitable donor for late cresting as 5093 Upton Castle, it being my surname I really ought to have one!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
neal Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Are the tenders easily disconnected or are they more firmly coupled together as per the new truro? Im considering doing some major tender swappage... The drawbar is easy to remove from the peg below the footplate, however the 4pin connector fitting into the socket on the tender is difficult to release. There is not a huge amount of slack in the wires connecting this to the locomotive. N Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 3, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3, 2010 Looking at a photograph (all be it not a very clear one) would Earl Cairns be a suitable donor for late cresting as 5093 Upton Castle, it being my surname I really ought to have one!! Not sure which outside steam pipes has but otherwise it looks a good match for 5093's 1954 condition except that for some reason 5093 has the larger pattern oil pipe cover between the boiler cladding and the smokebox (I can't find a record of it having a 4 row superheater which would go with the larger pipe cover) and 5093 had a Collett tender at that time, but tenders got swapped around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 3, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3, 2010 My 'bible' on Castles has been 'Portaites of the 'Castles' by Holden & Leech (Moorland Publishing Company) since 1981. Every ''Castle is illustrated and most were photographed while carrying the early BR totem. No doubt more recent books will give fuller technical coverage. This one takes a lot of beating and is an invaluable source of reference its worst failing beng that some photos are not dated. It has long been out of print but is often available through book dealers, I last saw a copy for sale about 3 weeks back. I have yet to see the Irwell book (will hopefully be able to get one at Ally Pally this year) but I do have the OPC 'Power Of The Castles' which is good for picture variety but not as helpful on explaining detail as the book mentioned by Larry. The Ian Allan 'Castles and Kings At Work' by Michael Rutherford has some interesting stuff and a variety of photos but the standard of photographic reproduction is very mixed and down right abysmal in places so I wouldn't recommend it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted January 3, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3, 2010 Not sure which outside steam pipes has but otherwise it looks a good match for 5093's 1954 condition except that for some reason 5093 has the larger pattern oil pipe cover between the boiler cladding and the smokebox (I can't find a record of it having a 4 row superheater which would go with the larger pipe cover) and 5093 had a Collett tender at that time, but tenders got swapped around. It had a three row superheater and curved steam pipes in the late 50s and 1963 photos I have of her at Old Oak attached to the Hawksworth tender. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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