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Hornby castle arriving?


cahoon_danny
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Do you mean finescale ones for decoration or ones for using?

 

I would go for the Alan Gibson ones. The Smiths version are great for use, but are very overscale looking.

 

SCREW COUPLINGS A small range of exquisite lost-wax cast brass screw couplings. Although non-working in the ‘screw’  function they are, nevertheless, working couplings and will enhance the appearance of any model.  

 

4M706   Standard two shackle screw coupling   

4M706A   Three shackle screw coupling as used by the Southern Railway and also on BR Standard ‘9F’  

4M706B   Heavy duty coupling as used on diesels 

 

http://www.alangibsonworkshop.com/

 

 

Jason

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  • 1 month later...
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Can anyone tell me whether R2850 Ince Castle would make a good basis for renaming as 7029 Clun Castle (as running  pre 1965)? On the face of it I'd think it does being from the same 1950 batch but I know its never that straight-forward with these GWR 'standardised' classes!

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59 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Can anyone tell me whether R2850 Ince Castle would make a good basis for renaming as 7029 Clun Castle (as running  pre 1965)? On the face of it I'd think it does being from the same 1950 batch but I know its never that straight-forward with these GWR 'standardised' classes!

Yes it would!That is what I am doing! The lubricator is even in the correct position (it is actually incorrect for Ince).

 

The only disadvantaege is the recess in the bottom of the buffer beams (under the buffer shanks) - there should only be a recess between the buffers. This error was corrected in later batches, but worst case its a few minutes work with Milliput and a careful repaint of the buffer beam.

If you can get hold of R2850, it is a good high quality model, with a much better finish and build quality that some of the later castles (maybe excepting the most recent releases but I can't comment in the flesh). Also the boiler top seams, while visible, are less prominent that some later releases.

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Quick question of my own.

Hornby make two Castle smokeboxes, single chimney and double chimney.

Am I right in thinking that the 3-row superheat single chimney arrangements had their chimney's mounted a little further forwards than the 2-row machines (but not as far as the 4-row DC)?

I presume Hornby didn't tool for this difference, but if anyone knows, I'd appreciate it.7

 

I'm wondering whether it is worth filling and refitting the chimney on 7027 (including  repaint of the smokebox), but feel this might be one step too far expecially if its a compromise everyone else is living with!

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59 minutes ago, G-BOAF said:

Yes it would!That is what I am doing! The lubricator is even in the correct position (it is actually incorrect for Ince).

 

The only disadvantaege is the recess in the bottom of the buffer beams (under the buffer shanks) - there should only be a recess between the buffers. This error was corrected in later batches, but worst case its a few minutes work with Milliput and a careful repaint of the buffer beam.

If you can get hold of R2850, it is a good high quality model, with a much better finish and build quality that some of the later castles (maybe excepting the most recent releases but I can't comment in the flesh). Also the boiler top seams, while visible, are less prominent that some later releases.

Excellent - thanks for that. Agree these earlier Castles are better finished than the current (and much more expensive) ones. I've had this one 'in store for a while now' bought second hand from Rails having 'made an offer' for £85 through ebay 2 years ago. It is  as new and runs beautifully. Fox list a plate for Clun Castle without a plinth which will make renaming neat and easy.

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2 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Excellent - thanks for that. Agree these earlier Castles are better finished than the current (and much more expensive) ones. I've had this one 'in store for a while now' bought second hand from Rails having 'made an offer' for £85 through ebay 2 years ago. It is  as new and runs beautifully. Fox list a plate for Clun Castle without a plinth which will make renaming neat and easy.

Yes, and a nice etching it is too!

Fox obviously have all the plates for Castles with plinths. When Hornby released their castle (complete with good scale lined plinth) there was obviously demand for plates without plinths. Rather than redo their entire range (huge work and investment in stock), they are concentrating on models Hornby have released (where people will want do do a simple replacement with etched plates) to remove the plinth. Clun was released as a DCC sound fitted model, hence has the plinthless treatment.

Removing the plinth is difficult, but not impossible with a sharp knife, a firm surface, and a fine file

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I admit the finish can be impressive on some of the older ones - Cadbury Castle for example - but I much prefer the extra detailing and SUPER-smooth operation of the newtool Castles - very impressive machines, like the real articles.

 

I really hated the horrible plastic-gear-rattly noise of the ringfield motors as well - once warmed up, they seemed to go quite well, but once you run a newtool one alongside there's no contest - for me anyway.

 

Al.

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14 hours ago, atom3624 said:

I admit the finish can be impressive on some of the older ones - Cadbury Castle for example - but I much prefer the extra detailing and SUPER-smooth operation of the newtool Castles - very impressive machines, like the real articles.

 

I really hated the horrible plastic-gear-rattly noise of the ringfield motors as well - once warmed up, they seemed to go quite well, but once you run a newtool one alongside there's no contest - for me anyway.

 

Al.

Agree but we are talking about earlier and later versions of the new super detailed model. I think we'll find the SK produced models are the best finished. 

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8 hours ago, Brinkly said:

Hi everyone,

 

Has anyone conducted a haulage test on one of these lovely models? I did read 10 plus earlier in the thread?

 

Regards,

 

Nick.

 

Ten of what exactly?  If you test by using Bachmann Mk 1’s then I’d say eight is plenty for the average roundy with 36” radius and slight gradient like mine.

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57 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

 

Ten of what exactly?  If you test by using Bachmann Mk 1’s then I’d say eight is plenty for the average roundy with 36” radius and slight gradient like mine.

 

Sorry Ian, I should have added MK1 coaches.

 

Regards,

 

Nick.

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  • 2 months later...

Hi all,

I have just managed to track down a Tintagel Castle however it is suffering from the milky marks in the paintwork that I know isn't unusual for this model. Has anybody out there found a way of either removing this milky film or found a answer to masking it in some way ie varnish etc.

Any ideas please.

Thanks.

Craig.

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  • 2 months later...
On 03/10/2019 at 20:20, duff man said:

Hi all,

I have just managed to track down a Tintagel Castle however it is suffering from the milky marks in the paintwork that I know isn't unusual for this model. Has anybody out there found a way of either removing this milky film or found a answer to masking it in some way ie varnish etc.

Any ideas please.

Thanks.

Craig.

Hi Craig,

 

I hav e the same issue regarding the loco body. Back in 2011 when I obtained the model, I had returned the first model to the dealer and received a model with the same fault, but less strong. During the years, the milky film has become stronger. First a short time, it helps to clean the model. But I think only a new finish (airbrush) really resolves the issue.

 

I do not think that - as mentioned in the video - glue is the reason for the milky film. To me it seems that the final satin varnish was of bad quality or aged.

 

Cheers

Mark

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  • 6 months later...
  • 3 weeks later...

After around 18 months of sitting in the 'to do' pile, we now have significant progress on 5043 Earl of Mount Edgcumbe. Cab and running plate finally cleaned of glue to achive perfect fit, and reglued initially with PVA (spots of super glue might follow, but pva holding well on globally travelled 7027).

 

Just to recap this is an ince castle body/chassis with an Earl Cairns cab/tender correctly reflecting the large front windows and straight handrail of 5043. The Hornby model of this loco was incorrect in this respect. Further pics to follow once finished (awaiting vertical alignment of cab on boiler and nameplates etc.)

20200713_154128.jpg

Edited by G-BOAF
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And here she is!!!

5043, with correct cab, as preserved by Vintage Trains, posed with the Bachmann BSK support coach. I still need to add the smokebox number transfer, reattach the lubricator in the correct position, and may (probably will) add some OHL flashes. Plinth colour and lining doesn't quite match, but I will have to live with that. I am pretty dam pleased with the result.

The full 'how to' of this model and Thornbury Castle is available on my RMWeb blog, as promised back in 2018! Sorry its taken so long to finish this project

5043BSK.jpg.72810d35baecc9e0a2a660d5e9bb1edb.jpg

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AAAAAH Hornby!!!

Tweaking my 5043, including changing the wheels to get rid of a wobble.

Not happy that on one side the loco seemed to be rocking on its centre axle (meaning no weight on front or rear drivers on that side when on level track). I investigated.

my first thought was that the flanged bearing by the gear was not seated properly in the chassis block. I was prepared to file the flange down a bit to see if this would help (I have enough spare wheel sets that I could restore back if necessary). Just before I started, I thought I'd measure the narrow part of the flanged bearing, as I knew this recess on the chassis block was the same depth as the plain bearings on front and rear.

Result - narrow part of flanged bearing was 5.1mm while the plain bearings were 4.99mm.

 

measuring the bearings on a set of scrap Britannia wheels (the tyres are different diameters :-s) shows all bearings, including the flanged one at 5.1mm. Therefore all the castle bearings, except the flanged one, are fractionally too small.

Just about to swap out 3 axles worth of bearings, while hoping my white paint markings will preserve the quartering. Wish me luck.

I have measured 6 sets of castle wheels and all have this problem..... Oh dear!

 

Given no track is ever totally straight and level, I may be being over fussy...

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The Saga continues. I've gone as far as I can with parts I have in stock....

And I thought that swapping cabs was hard!

Turns out truing up the chassis was harder. (Long post!)

 

As per above post, the loco was rocking on its centre axle. I had identified that all except the flanged bearing on the gear side of the driver were fractionally too small (by about 0.08mm) – castle class bearings 4.99mm vs flanged bearing 5.07mm. I swapped out the bearings from a scrap set of Hornby drivers (not castle) where all bearings had an OD of 5.07mm. Things improved re pivoting centre drivers, but were not perfect.

 

This confirmed to me it was the flanged bearing, either not seated properly in the chassis block, or that the recess in the chassis was somehow not deep enough. I tested the flanged bearing the ‘wrong way round’ on a scrap wheelset, which proved that the main bearing surface and chassis recess were the correct dimensions and everything was true. There was no visible flash in the chassis recess but the flanged bearing did have some resistance when lifted out, suggesting it was catching on something.

 

Using a spare bearing, I carefully filed the outer side of the flange, effectively reducing its width at the extreme edge. This reduced resistance when installed, but did not solve the rocking. At this point, I was firmly of the belief there was something about the flange.

 

I then too the drastic measure of filing down the flange height itself, with the assumption that the flange slot itself was not deep enough and the flange was preventing the bearing from seating. Even this did not solve the problem. There was really nothing else left to try it seemed….

 

I then took a photograph of the bearing and zoomed in, and identified the problem (really too difficult to see with the naked eye, and I was only a short step away from moving into aircraft-style microscopic examination of parts!). The photo showed that the transition from the flange to the main face of the bearing was not a right-angle, rather there was a slight curve, something like the transition on a wheel flange, but much smaller. It was also apparent by placing the corner of a steel rule in the corner of the bearing. The transition curve is shown in this (hugely magnified photo). This is either intentional manufacture but with an error on the shape of the chassis casting not accommodating it, or (and I think more likely) due to tool wear on the lathe used to make the flanged bearing, a proper sharp 90 degrees was not achieved, and this was likely lifting the bearing fractionally.

 

Flangedcomposite2.jpg.6df322a13494eaa6674cc84fcbbe5552.jpg

 

Note that the this impacted all of the flanged bearings on the 5 sets of spare wheels I purchased, and on the R2850 chassis. Based on a sample of 1, my R2822 flanged bearing is OK (I have another R2822 base model but have not removed the wheels yet). This suggests a change in bearing stock part of the way through production. The under-sized plain bearings are however apparent on all the wheel sets, regardless of model number.

 

Using a small triangular file, I carefully skimmed the corner of the bearing and this, finally seemed to solve the problem. When you know what it the problem is, it is an easy adjustment, although care is needed not to file away the main bottom edge of the bearing (which holds everything true in the chassis block).

 

A new correct diameter set of remaining bearings is also still needed to true the chassis, even once the flanged bearing is corrected, and unfortunately this involves buying a set of wheels from a batch that wasn’t the 2010 Castle production run! I’ve just ordered some from various 2007-era models and will see if they come up to standard.

 

Even with the bearings trued up, problem isn’t entirely solved, as there is still some ‘skipping’ of the rear wheel at certain points in the revolution, along with similar behaviour from the centre wheel (and probably the front wheel but as the weight is distributed forward of the centre wheels, this won’t show). It is clear that the wheels are not running round, and after much measurement of the tyres and wheel centres, I suspect this is due to the knurling on the axle ends being a bit eccentric, resulting in the wheels not following a straight path. I hope to have an answer on this by doing a complete swapping of axles from another batch of wheels for the next set of bearing swaps.

 

The whole situation is This is something of a mess I must say. With the difference in bearing size, and the sloppy machining of the flanged bearing, definitely a QC failing from Hornby and Sanda Kan there (and yes I normally praise the quality of SK, but not on this occasion). I do wonder if the Duchess class that were affected by uneven driving wheels suffer the same problem of potentially poorly machined centre bearings?

 

It goes to show how carefully aligned everything needs to be to run true and sound. The issues I've higlighted might be of help to anyone with haulage or slippage issues on their Castles.

 

5043 now runs mostly true and confidently, which is a relief given my complete eyeball requartering of the wheels. With all the work done on her, I honestly feel she has been re-engineered by me, with almost every screw undone, and four driving wheels removed and refitted to their axles and all bearings replaced. All told, with the body rebuild included, she is practically home-built from a (home deconstructed) kit of parts! Depending on how my axle experiments go, she may eventually get new driving wheel axles, but I will be working on other class members for a while before returning to Edgcumbe.

 

Now for fitting the OHL flashes…

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I just remembered that when I started my little 5043 project back in 2018 (and needing something to do on a long train journey), I created the correct box image for my model. As per the model itself, I spliced the Hornby box art images for Ince and Earl Cairns, and added the lettering from Fox Transfer plates.

I sense creating one's own box art for RTR modified models might be taking things a step too far, but here it is.... :-P (and yes the Hornby artwork for 5043 had all the mistakes the model itself had, so I wasn't going to use that!)

1546240793_5043Artwork.png.e0124816b0f7c43d27ca363fbf3fe0b3.png

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  • 3 months later...

Just seen that TMC Models has Abergavenny Castle on offer for £102 plus p&p, the best price I've seen. Was out of stock yesterday, but 4 today, which I've had 1. Planning to renumber to 5080 Defiant, one of the Castles renamed after aircraft in the Battle of Britain and preserved.

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On 27/11/2020 at 17:54, rembrow said:

Just seen that TMC Models has Abergavenny Castle on offer for £102 plus p&p, the best price I've seen. Was out of stock yesterday, but 4 today, which I've had 1. Planning to renumber to 5080 Defiant, one of the Castles renamed after aircraft in the Battle of Britain and preserved.

Thanks for the tip, back to zero stock now, I just ordered the last one. Mine will become 5082 Swordfish.

 

Brian

 

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