Paris in HO

[L49]

I thought I'd start this topic here as it is rather a niche project, and is a prototype completely new to us. We have always had a hankering to build a continental layout, and for quite some time we have been looking around for a new exhibition project to replace our old Sidney Street NLR layout.

 

Ever since my Dad first discovered the railways of Paris in the late 70s, he has had a growing interest in the lines of the CDF Petite Ceinture, and from my love of LT has grown an equal, if not slightly stronger love of the Paris Metro, so we decided to combine the two with some old baseboard frames which have been languishing at the back of my parent's garden shed for a couple of years (they once supported my 00 layout Shoreditch ELR which was on RMweb about 4 years ago). The new layout is 6'x1', and depicts a spur off the Ceinture south of Bel Air, heading towards Reuilly on the Bastille line (theoretically built instead of rather than in addition to the actual curve!). The single station on the line is situated above a backstreet called Rue Sidi Brahim, but the station takes its name from the nearby Avenue de Daumesnil.

 

The passenger service finished with the rest of the Ceinture in the 30s, but the singled spur has been retained for stock transfers to the nearby Metro depot.

 

So far I have only started scenic work on about a foot of layout at the right hand end, so this is really just a taster.

 

 

 

The viaduct is a copy of the stretch between Pont de Flandres and the Ourq canal. The Locotracteur is the basic Jouef model with a bit of extra detailing and a repaint. Still need to cover up the holes in the axleboxes though!

 

 

 

The office in the depot yard is a scaled down version of the goods office which until fairly recently graced the north end of the platforms at Avenue de Vincennes, even down to having one end rebuit and losing it's fancy bargeboards. This and the low relief depot building still need to meet the airbrush, and I have just noticed the 'ding' in the end of the roof. I'd better sort that out sooner rather than later!

 

 

I want this layout to be about atmosphere, and I have to admit I am quite happy with the job so far. The cafe is taken from one which actually stands on the corner of Rue Sidi Brahim (one of the great benefits of 'street view') The posters are mostly originals, the only exception being the Feu de Jardin, which is a very old in-joke made over...Entent Cordiale!

 

 

Finally, this is the front of the main depot building. it is only 25mm deep, and is tucked away behind the end of the fascia just to give the impression that there is a larger building there. It is based on the main depot building at La Villette, until recently the last bastion of the Sprague stock tracteurs, which are now unfortunately a thing of the past.

Edited August 15, 2012 by L49

[RhBBob]

Yes, very stylish and I look forward to seeing more photos !

 

Paris is all about atmosphere and the 'Red Balloon' film was shown yet again recently. I try to watch it each time as it is a wonderful portrait of a rather beautiful, if slightly chaotic, city.

 

I have this mad idea about modelling the Gare de la Bastille; I scanned and kept the February 2011 article on it published in Continental Modeller.

[trisonic]

You need to model the kid at the end of the movie doing a flyover!

Very good, as to be expected from your family team....

 

I've got a thing about 40's and 50's films featuring Rome (like The Bicycle Thieves) which often I have wondered how to work a layout around.

I was in Paris (for the first time) by myself when I was 12, enroute to Innsbruck from London. Can you imagine letting a kid do that now (that was 1963)?

My favourite Station on that trip was Basle.

 

Best, Pete.

Edited August 16, 2012 by trisonic

[welsh wizard]

there was a superb french language film on you tube about Bastille station and the line, which even showed some of the double deck coaches and some film of the loco shed, which I think was at Nogent sur Marne ? will try and look out the Link ......

[Barry Ten]

Wonderful, right up my street (er, rue).

[L49]

Yes, very stylish and I look forward to seeing more photos !

 

Paris is all about atmosphere and the 'Red Balloon' film was shown yet again recently. I try to watch it each time as it is a wonderful portrait of a rather beautiful, if slightly chaotic, city.

 

I have this mad idea about modelling the Gare de la Bastille; I scanned and kept the February 2011 article on it published in Continental Modeller.

 

I agree Bastille would make a fantastic project, and I would be tempted myself, but it would have to be BIG! Locos and stock might be tricky too. I was lucky enough to get hold of an old Hornby Acho 131TB cheap on ebay a few years ago, which is waiting to be detailed to make an appearance on the layout, as most of the motive power will be based at Nogent Vincennes, but the push-pull sets might require a bit more thought...

 

It's terrible the amount of time I have spent over the last couple of weeks indulging in vintage cinema featuring Paris. There are some fantastically evocative scenes captured on camera which I would love to be able to capture on the model, as well as some quite rare locations.

 

If anyone is interested visit the website http://www.petiteceinture.org who have a really useful filmography section, and some very nice photographic archives. One bit of detective work I did myself last night which isn't featured on the website is some scenes for the Jaques Tati film Mon Oncle which appear to be shot on and around the former St Ouen docks branch which met the Ceinture just west of Ave St Ouen station, and of course the classic shot in The Red Ballon where he runs across the footbridge at Menilmontant station just as a train goes underneath.

 

The more I do this, the more I am feeling a trip back to Paris coming on. We haven't been since before the children were born; maybe now would be a good time!

[trisonic]

If you check out the fag end of the current Minories thread there is a heavy discussion on "Bastille" - including mirror image track diagrams on templot from Gordon S.

 

Best, Pete.

[Horsetan]

Just looking at the photos; you can almost smell the percolated coffee and fresh baguettes, whilst coughing on the fumes of a hundred full-strength Gauloises.....

 

Atmosphere. So elusive, yet you've already captured it.

[Tim Hale]

This blog is of interest to enthusiasts of the Petite Ceinture: http://petiteceinture.blogspot.co.uk/

 

Tim

[gordon s]

Great stuff and what a super subject. A Pete said, I stumbled across the layout for Bastille terminus yesterday and have been kicking around some plans in Templot as it's such an elegant design. Another thread to add to watch list.

[Pacific231G]

The layout is looking terrific and should really capture the atmosphere of one of the down at heel districts of Paris. The PC is incredible.

 

Great stuff and what a super subject. A Pete said, I stumbled across the layout for Bastille terminus yesterday and have been kicking around some plans in Templot as it's such an elegant design. Another thread to add to watch list.

 

There were two articles about Bastille in Continental Modeller early last year (I know because I wrote them)

Since then I've also got hold of the ratings plans for that section of Paris which though very faint show the track layout in great detail but before it was improved in the mid 1920s. and some plans for the ground floor accommodations.

I've done rather a lot of research on the station, which has haunted me since I made my first trip to Paris and found it closed but completely intact, so if there's anything you need to know don't hesitate. Certainly in the 1950s the throat was made up entirely of standard LH & RH turnouts apart from one single slip (which could easily be two back to back points) and a three way in the "annexe traction"

 

David

[Tequila Sunrise]

Another Paris station that looks really modellable is Saint Germain en Laye - suburban rather than central Paris, but very atmospheric, especially before it was rebuilt during electrification.

[L49]

I shall have to write myself a stern note to remind me never to state that a small layout is intended to be a 'quickie'! Whatever else the Paris project has been, it has not been particularly quick, although to be fair a lot of that has been due to moving house and trying to get Sumatra Road exhibitable for Watford next month. Anyway, the pressing deadline of St Albans in a fortnight dragged me back to life just before Christmas, and I have been using some of the holiday to get Rue Sidi Brahim back on track...

 

 

 

This is the extent of the layout. it only measures 6'x1' including the fiddle yard which is behind/underneath the big block of flats at the left hand end.

 

 

This is a view looking down the ramp towards the metro level fiddle yard. The railings need some wire reinforcement, and there are large billboards to go on the stretch of embankment between the top of the retaining wall and the base of the Ceinture arches.

 

 

The Locotracteur on a trial run to test the track after ballasting. I wonder whether anyone has told RATP that it is making an unauthorised trip onto their metals!

 

 

 

Looking along the single track leading to the depot. There is a Jouef 040TA just visible outside the shed in the distance. It runs like a dog!

 

 

Turning round and looking the other way from the depot gates, this is the view of the old Ceinture station perched on the viaduct. I couldn't resist having some nameboards still up. If it's good enough for Rue d'Avron, it's good enough for me!

 

 

 

 

At track level, the station looks like this...

 

The buildings have been taken from Avenue de Vincennes, although I have had to shorten them very slightly and rearrange the stairwells. The railings around the stairwells will be changed once I have had the etches done for the correct pattern fancy ironwork. Once the track has been airbrushed, the weeds and ground cover can be added, and this section is basically complete.

 

 

Finally the ubiquitous Y51200 from Nogent Vincennes makes a light engine trip along the spur and passes the flats at the end of the platform. the low relief buildings in the distance will be much higher once they are glued in, as one of the lines into the fiddle yard runs beneath them. they have only been perched into position to get an idea how it will look once they are airbrushed.

 

That's it for now, but there will be more by the end of the week!

 

 

 

[Pacific231G]

I've had a soft spot for the Petite Ceinture for years- ever since going round it on a steam special in 1989- and I really think you're capturing the atmosphere.

BTW I'm not sure the yoyo would be unauthorised on the RATP siding. There are two photos in Images de Train tome IV of a Nogent 141TB delivering a line of pneumatique stock for Metro ligne 4 via the connection  from the ligne de Vincennes to the RATP depot at Fontenay-sous-Bois. It would make an interesting train as the metro stock is on its flanged steel wheels and the rubber tyres are stacked in a wagon between it and the loco.   

Edited October 27, 2013 by Pacific231G

[L49]

I've had a soft spot for the Petite Ceinture for years- ever since going round it on a steam special in 1988- and I really think you're capturing the atmosphere.

BTW I'm not sure the yoyo would be unauthorised on the RATP siding. There are two photos in Images de Train tome IV of a Nogent 141TB delivering a line of pneumatique stock for Metro ligne 4 via the connection  from the ligne de Vincennes to the RATP depot at Fontenay-sous-Bois. It would make an interesting train as the metro stock is on its flanged steel wheels and the rubber tyres are stacked in a wagon between it and the loco.   

 

That photo was one of the inspirations for the layout! I haven't got room for a whole rake of MP59 stock, but I can deliver one car at a time, and take away some Sprague stock too! Don't know whether all the stock will be available by St Albans though. Hopefully at least one Metro car will be finished.

[Pacific231G]

That photo was one of the inspirations for the layout! I haven't got room for a whole rake of MP59 stock, but I can deliver one car at a time, and take away some Sprague stock too! Don't know whether all the stock will be available by St Albans though. Hopefully at least one Metro car will be finished.

I should get to the St. Albans show so I'm looking forward to seeing it. It's also high  time I put the photos from the 1988 trip on Flickr. I wasn't actually riding in the train for about a quarter way round the PC which is why I've also got a very soft spot for 230G353!! Apart from the PC we did weird things like running on RER A and what is now T2 under the Grande Arche at La Defense. 

 

You do have to go back to Paris!! 

[L49]

I should get to the St. Albans show so I'm looking forward to seeing it. It's also high  time I put the photos from the 1988 trip on Flickr. I wasn't actually riding in the train for about a quarter way round the PC which is why I've also got a very soft spot for 230G353!! Apart from the PC we did weird things like running on RER A and what is now T2 under the Grande Arche at La Defense. 

 

You do have to go back to Paris!! 

 

I Know! One of these days I will manage to find someone willing to babysit the whole tribe and we will get a weekend away.

 

I remember my first day on the PC ended up chasing 230G353 around. The best bit was, we had no idea she was running. The first inkling we had that anything was going on was when we were half way between Bvd Ornano and Ave St Ouen, and saw clag shooting out of each tunnel vent. Needless to say, we were too far from either end of the covered way to be in a position to see what was going on. She did the same to us at Orleans Ceinture about 2 hours later, after which we found someone with the timings, and managed to give chase!

 

I think we managed to get some shots at La Rapee, Grenelle, and finally back at Ornano going in the opposite direction. That's a day which we will never be able to repeat.

[Pacific231G]

I Know! One of these days I will manage to find someone willing to babysit the whole tribe and we will get a weekend away.

 

I remember my first day on the PC ended up chasing 230G353 around. The best bit was, we had no idea she was running. The first inkling we had that anything was going on was when we were half way between Bvd Ornano and Ave St Ouen, and saw clag shooting out of each tunnel vent. Needless to say, we were too far from either end of the covered way to be in a position to see what was going on. She did the same to us at Orleans Ceinture about 2 hours later, after which we found someone with the timings, and managed to give chase!

 

I think we managed to get some shots at La Rapee, Grenelle, and finally back at Ornano going in the opposite direction. That's a day which we will never be able to repeat.

Do you remember when that was? The trip I was on did much of the PC in both directions and started and finished at Paris Bercy. It was organised by IFC and was on the Sunday of the Paris Salon where we had a stand. Sadly 230G353 seems to be in a fairly poor state now following problems with a repair I think to a superheater collector and has been the subject of some kind of legal dispute between SNCF, Ateliers de Gray and CFTA. Though she was built by Batignolles some of the class were built for the PO by North British in Glasgow.

Edited January 5, 2013 by Pacific231G

[L49]

Do you remember when that was? The trip I was on did much of the PC in both directions and started and finished at Paris Bercy. It was organised by IFC and was on the Sunday of the Paris Salon where we had a stand. Sadly 230G353 seems to be in a fairly poor state now following problems with a repair I think to a superheater collector and has been the subject of some kind of legal dispute between SNCF, Ateliers de Gray and CFTA. Though she was built by Batignolles some of the class were built for the PO by North British in Glasgow.

 

It was April 1992. I only remember that because we were in Paris on my 13th birthday. There was still quite a lot of activity on parts of the PC then, and Bvd Massena was still open. I remember track bashing the line from Ave de Vincennes to Rue d'Avron and Charonne, and nobody batted an eyelid. Last time I tried that, about 10 years ago, I got slung off by the owners of the Fleche d'Or cafe at Charonne.

 

There will be some more pictures on the thread later this afternoon. I burned some midnight oil (and even a few fluid ounces of 2am oil) last night to get all the wiring finished and running. Only two wires crossed, which for me working in the middle of the night ain't bad.

 

All the weeds and ground cover is done, it just needs the various bits of rubbish strewn across the viaduct now, and a member of staff riding on the bufferbeam of the YoYo just to make sure that there are still rails beneath the grass!

 

Irritatingly, having got the 040D, and 040TA working really nicely at the club on Thursday evening last week, I couldn't get them to run last night. The only loco which ran perfectly was my old Acho 131TB. Says something for a Hornby Dublo mech!

[L49]

A Little spoiler for St Albans this weekend...

 

We got the layout up at the club last night, and got a few trains running. Jouef stock is really not nice when it comes to smooth running qualities. I have abandoned the idea of bringing the 040TA, as she simply won't run!

 

The Piko 040D did manage to pass muster though, and here she is waiting for permission to pass the limit of shunt, while the crew look out to see what the Gendarme is up to. I think he must be about to book some trespassers!

 

 

 

We also wished the Met a very happy 150th birthday!

 

 

I hope she managed to keep condensing all the way through the channel tunnel!!!

 

[Jim Connor]

Good to see she's carrying the 'Metropolitan Heritage Train' headboard! I bet she runs better than some of the proprietary stuff which we tried last night!

[Guest oldlugger]

A great subject to model and highly unusual. Excellent!

 

Cheers

Simon

[L49]

Thanks for the feedback and comments. There are a few things which came to light at St Albans which will hopefully allow us to run thing a bit better. one of which it not to skimp on the point accessory switches.

 

The other unfortunately is that all Jouef stock ought to be re-chassied! By 10am on Saturday morning, we had no motive power, and we only managed to keep things moving with the help of a BR black J52, and the loan of Pete the Elaner's new Fairburn tank! I managed to beat the Y51700 into some sort of operating condition by about 3pm, but the 040TA and the 040D were less than useless. This in part is down to wheel profile, and I should have known better than to use code 75, but I wanted to go for the finescale and lightly laid look. however another key problem (with the whole fleet) is pickups. They are truly awful! I am going to have to replace the chassis on the Tracteur with a black beetle before it comes out again. I have a nasty feeling I will have to get new frames, rods and valvegear etched for the others, and start from scratch, unless I can dismantle them cleanly and turn the existing wheelsets down on the lathe.

 

Not looking forward to the next month or so!!!

[unklian]

I saw your layout at St Albans and very nice it looked too. Is it going to be part of something bigger ?

 

As to your loco problems, it is a shame that you have started off with perhaps some of the worst french locos available. I am still a bit surprised you are having problems with the 040TA though, is it one of the belt drive ones ? The club layout I am involved in building uses code 75 track and so far we have not had any trouble running Jouef stock on it. What you might find worthwhile checking is the back to back dimension on the wheels, as this can sometimes be too tight for Peco points.

 

Doing the steam era on the Petite Ceinture will not be too easy to do accurately as there have not been many models of the most typical locos. You could possibly turn a Jouef Boer 030TB into the Ceinture version, but once again it is not a great chassis. Sadly no one makes an affordable 050TE or 050TQ !! If you have a mind for the diesel era a BB63000 or BB66000 would be quite appropriate. The Roco 63000 is fairly available and runs very well, and the more recent Piko 63000 and 66000 are very nice, although much more expensive. The early Jouef BB66000 arent too good but more recent ones have been retooled and compare with any new models. If you look at the shunter thread here you can gauge the pro's and con's of what is available there.

 

Best of luck whatever you do !

[Welchester]

I've just come across this thread again, and am amazed not at the atmospheric quality of the modelling, but the wit; I love the advertisements for the cigarettes that stink, and for M. Pujol and his unusual wind instrument!