Parkside V12

[Craigw]

I received four of these in the mail this afternoon (Posted on the 16th of Aug and arrived in Australia on the 21st...not bad!) and started looking through the usual references. The V12 vans are noted as being built with the sliding ventilators rather than the bonnets fitted to the V14 and V16. However, some were later fitted with the bonnets - at last according to photographs. But does anyone know when this was done from? The best date I could find is in the GWR wagon book (the big one!) where it says from the mid 1920's for the V6 vans.

 

My modelling period is mid 1924, so I am guessing that for that time all the V12 had the earlier arrangement. Does anybody have any further thoughts?

 

Really nice kit by the way, looking forward to starting it after I finish a N4 and N13 Horse box

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

[richbrummitt]

A word of warning if you want an accurate model: watch out for the detail differences in the under frames with these diagrams. For example, and quite obvious if you are looking for it, V12s have an offset V hanger. I only found this out after I had finished mine!

[Miss Prism]

I don't know of any V12 pics fitted with sliding vents, so I think it's impossible to tell when they started to be changed to bonnets. If you're building 4 of them though, it might be an idea to hedge your bets and have 2 of each arrangement!

 

P.S. Rich - was it not the V14 that had the offset vee? (See below.)

Edited August 22, 2012 by Miss Prism

[57xx]

P.S. Rich - was it not the V14 that had the offset vee?

 

The wagon "bible" does not have any pics or diagrams of the V12 or V14, only a pic of the V16 with central V. In the text for diagram of the V4 (without underframe details) it says V12 has "vacuum u/f as O15". Flicking back some pages to the Opens section and there is a diagram of the O15, with offset V hanger. It also says in the vans text "For V14, as V12 with GW s/c buffers and bonnet end vents", so maybe they both had offset hangers?

 

It's interesting to note the O11/15 sketch on the Parkside website clearly shows the offset hanger, yet they managed to miss reproducing this in the kit. I have 2 built up O11's and another kit waiting to become an O15.

Edited August 21, 2012 by 57xx

[Craigw]

The wagon bible does have a photo of a V12 - on page 1 there is a photo of Middle Yard (Acton) around 1920. The second van in the photo (82817 according to the caption) appears to be a V12 with sliding vents. On the subject of the offset V- hangers, in his article on GWR vans in MRJ 112 and 113 (a V12 and V14 in late condition) John Hayes speculates that the offset V -Hangers may have been required to clear the vacuum cylinder and the side on views in the article certainly raise that as a possibility. So perhaps a better question to ask is has anyone seen a vacuum fitted V12/14/16 or 015 that does not have offset V hangers?

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

 

Also a V12 in the background on page 273. This van is 82081 - is vacuum fitted but I am not sure the V-hangers are offset!

Edited August 22, 2012 by Craigw

[Miss Prism]

The wagon bible does have a photo of a V12 - on page 1 there is a photo of Middle Yard (Acton) around 1920. The second van in the photo (82817 according to the caption) appears to be a V12 with sliding vents.

 

Ah yes, good spot.

 

Also a V12 in the background on page 273. This van is 82081 - is vacuum fitted but I am not sure the V-hangers are offset!

 

I would say yes that is offset.

 

So perhaps a better question to ask is has anyone seen a vacuum fitted V12/14/16 or 015 that does not have offset V hangers?

 

That is certainly the question, and I think we can add O11 to that list.

[Miss Prism]

It's interesting to note the O11/15 sketch on the Parkside website clearly shows the offset hanger, yet they managed to miss reproducing this in the kit. I have 2 built up O11's and another kit waiting to become an O15.

 

Looks like the Parkside, as supplied, is ok for the non-vac O11, but an O15 will require mods.

 

(Similarly the new Parkside Mink, as supplied, is ok for V16 and those V12s not fitted, but not ok for V14 (and V13/S2).

Edited August 22, 2012 by Miss Prism

[richbrummitt]

The wagon "bible" does not have any pics or diagrams of the V12 or V14, only a pic of the V16 with central V.

 

Is this the two part, combined or bumper edition? I'm pretty certain the bumper edition has pictures and diagrams in, but the u/f detail on the V12 is missing. Unless you're talking of a different wagon bible to Atkins et al.?

[57xx]

Rich, it is indeed Atkins et al, and is the "New Edition Combining Parts 1 and 2".

The wagon bible does have a photo of a V12 - on page 1 there is a photo of Middle Yard (Acton) around 1920. The second van in the photo (82817 according to the caption) appears to be a V12 with sliding vents. On the subject of the offset V- hangers, in his article on GWR vans in MRJ 112 and 113 (a V12 and V14 in late condition) John Hayes speculates that the offset V -Hangers may have been required to clear the vacuum cylinder and the side on views in the article certainly raise that as a possibility. So perhaps a better question to ask is has anyone seen a vacuum fitted V12/14/16 or 015 that does not have offset V hangers?

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

 

Also a V12 in the background on page 273. This van is 82081 - is vacuum fitted but I am not sure the V-hangers are offset!

My "combined" edition has the words "A history of GWR Wagons" and nothing else on page1, and doesn't run to 273 pages. V12 and V14 are not even mentioned in the index. Time to start another book hunt!

[Adrian Wintle]

For everything you ever wanted to know about V12 vans, get hold of John Lewis' article in Great Western Railway Journal 66. He states that early fitted V12s had offset V-hangers, while later builds had them almost central. There are photos with both bonnets and louvres.

 

This is part of a series of articles on GWR 16' covered goods wagons (GWRJ 62 - overview, 63 - V5/V4, 66 - V10/V12, 67 - V14/V16, 68 - V18/V19, 70 - liveries).

 

Adrian

[richbrummitt]

For everything you ever wanted to know about V12 vans, get hold of John Lewis' article in Great Western Railway Journal 66. <cut>

 

This is part of a series of articles on GWR 16' covered goods wagons (GWRJ 62 - overview, 63 - V5/V4, 66 - V10/V12, 67 - V14/V16, 68 - V18/V19, 70 - liveries).

 

How did I forget about this? Much cheaper to pick up than the bumper edition of the wagon bible too.

 

My focus is pre-grouping, which is probably why I retained that the V hangers should be offset. I probably didn't read as far as 'later builds'. Hopefully I can find a reference for a centrally hung brake cross shaft on a fitted V12 to match my model

Edited August 22, 2012 by richbrummitt

[57xx]

Thanks Adrian and Industrial for the info and reference material, most useful!

[iak]

For everything you ever wanted to know about V12 vans, get hold of John Lewis' article in Great Western Railway Journal 66. He states that early fitted V12s had offset V-hangers, while later builds had them almost central. There are photos with both bonnets and louvres.

 

This is part of a series of articles on GWR 16' covered goods wagons (GWRJ 62 - overview, 63 - V5/V4, 66 - V10/V12, 67 - V14/V16, 68 - V18/V19, 70 - liveries).

 

Adrian

 

Well they have just been ordered on line then.

Mercy buckets sir

[Craigw]

Being reminded of a brain explosion is a good thing, like (nearly) everyone else here I had forgotten about the John Lewis series. It is still a bit vague about which vans had the offset V hangers and why (the why fascinates me at least!) I am going to work under the assumption that if one wagon in a lot had offset hangers then on the balance of probability the rest of the lot did. Anyway, the article has full details for some vans and the twin vent ends started to be retrofitted from around 1923 but the program accelerated in the 1930's.

 

If you do not have the GWRJ series you should get it, but there again if you are interested in the GWR or WR and do not get GWRJ you should!

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

[Adrian Wintle]

There was also a series on the later Minks (17'6" body) in GWRJ 9/10/12/14/16 for those building the Ratio kit etc.

 

Adrian

[iak]

There was also a series on the later Minks (17'6" body) in GWRJ 9/10/12/14/16 for those building the Ratio kit etc.

 

Adrian

 

That can wait till next week then...

 

Wagon building is so addictive..............................

[57xx]

There was also a series on the later Minks (17'6" body) in GWRJ 9/10/12/14/16 for those building the Ratio kit etc.

 

Do you know if there were any series on open wagons?

[Adrian Wintle]

Do you know if there were any series on open wagons?

 

There was a series on modern Opens in GWRJ 35/38/39/40. I don't recall which diagrams they considered to be modern.

 

Adrian

Edited August 23, 2012 by Adrian Wintle

[gwrrob]

A timely bump for this topic as I'm wondering if the model in question was ever finished.A quite fancy building some.

[Craigw]

A timely bump for this topic as I'm wondering if the model in question was ever finished.A quite fancy building some.

 

Hi Rob,

 

I have actually been rather efficient and finished 3 of the Parkside vans, with a fourth one on the list along with a few of the O11/15 opens. All wagons use Morgan design under frames, Exactoscale couplings (with a smiths Instanter link on the fitted vans) and a few other bits. I am modelling around 1922-1924 (and tending back to around 1921 - 1922) so they are finished in a mix of the 16" and earlier lettering using Fox Transfers. paint is Valejo Panzer Grey let down with some white. All are weathered and have shunters scribbles. I think that covers most of the info. They are nice kits.

 

Apart from creating havoc in the Oxford Rail Dean goods thread, I do actually get some modelling done!

 

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

Edited November 22, 2016 by Craigw

[gwrrob]

Really nice vans Craig.

[Craigw]

Really nice vans Craig.

 

Rob,

 

Thanks for the kind words.... now get yours done!

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

[Siberian Snooper]

Hi Rob,

 

I have actually been rather efficient and finished 3 of the Parkside vans, with a fourth one on the list along with a few of the O11/15 opens. All wagons use Morgan design under frames, Exactoscale couplings (with a smiths Instanter link on the fitted vans) and a few other bits. I am modelling around 1922-1924 (and tending back to around 1921 - 1922) so they are finished in a mix of the 16" and earlier lettering using Fox Transfers. paint is Valejo Panzer Grey let down with some white. All are weathered and have shunters scribbles. I think that covers most of the info. They are nice kits.

 

Apart from creating havoc in the Oxford Rail Dean goods thread, I do actually get some modelling done!

 

Parkside vans.jpg

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

 

What is the 4th wagon? Please.

[Craigw]

What is the 4th wagon? Please.

 

The 4th van is a Coopercraft V5. That is also on a Morgan under frame. I have attached a photo I posted a little while back on one of the threads "somewhere".

 

The open is also a Coopercraft. I have another two Coopercraft 4 plankers finished now and will be doing timber loads and tarps like this for them.

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

 

[NCB]

Parkside does a similar kit in 3mm/ft for the 3mm Society. I worked out you could get around 13 different variations from it. So far I've built half-a-dozen or so.