Manchester ship canal Hudswell 4002

[Michael Delamar]

just out of curiosity more than anything, i wonder if anyone could tell me a bit more about this type of shunter please.

 

Ive had a search about but cant find much info on the type.

 

where they unique to the MSC?

how many where built?

where about on the MSC system did they work? did any work at Ellesmere port?

 

a very interesting loco and one which I dont think ive ever seen modelled.

[Gordon A]

A picture would be apreciated.

 

Gordon A

Bristol

[AMJ]

I think you'll find that MSC had 2 of these beasts. Both survive.

 

4001 & 4002. w/n D1075 & D1076

 

3 photos of 4002 exists when we borrowed it for the MSC gala the other year see Leeds Engine site below.

 

4001 exists at a garden centre.

[Arthur]

There were only two built, both for the MSC. If I remember correctly they were the MSCs first diesels and were allocated to Mode Wheel in Salford. They were equipped with National 400 h.p. engines, 4001 being named Alnwick Castle and 4002 Arundel Castle. Like a number of early Hudswell Clarke diesels they had a steam locomotive type cast chimney fitted over the exhaust, the same chimney as fitted to the very large outside cylinder 0-6-0STs HC had supplied a few years earlier to the MSC. They were impressive machines and I remember them working in Trafford Park.

 

I hesitate to post this link as it shows 4001 in a very sorry state but at least you get an idea of its appearance;

 

http://chewy.cc/winnystrain/

 

 

One's on my long term scratch build list. I did think that an 08 chassis might work though I know the Hudswells have a larger wheel diameter.

[Arthur]

These are better,

 

Photo in this thread,

 

http://railways.national-preservation.com/galas-events/23760-middleton-railway-manchester-ship-canal-gala-18th-19th-sept-2010-a-3.html

 

Rear view,

 

 

even better, running at the East Lancs;

 

 

 

[bigd]

There is some history, photographs, dimensions, and a diagram in Don Thorpe's Railways of the Manchester Ship Canal.

They had 4ft 6in wheels and a 11ft 6in wheelbase.

I could not see any evidence that they had been stationed at Ellesmere Port. That seems to be dominated by the six wheel sentinels.

Edited August 21, 2012 by bigd

[Debs.]

I could not see any evidence that they had been stationed at Ellesmere Port. That seems to be dominated by the six wheel sentinels.

 

...........of which: flyingsignalman (Keith) has posted some excellent pictures here.

[Michael Delamar]

thanks everyone.

I came across footage of the preserved 4002 on youtube and this is what prompted the questions, ive also seen 4001 in Haslingdon on google street view.

I did also think they resembled an 08 chassis, maybe they where Hudswell's take on it but didnt succeed, I was thinking maybe they built some for export.

 

I like the style of it, the big Hudswell badge, odd middle front cab window and rear corner cab windows.

 

has a nice engine note too

[Michael Delamar]

nice shot of 4001 in 1974..

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/6558857095/

 

I like the green livery it is now preserved in, what sort of era is that from?

[Arthur]

I think that there was only ever one livery, a kind of apple green, and the current preserved livery is a representation of that when new. The link above just shows that livery somewhat well worn and faded.

[Michael Edge]

These two locos are in our wishlist for future kits but I haven't measured one yet. Not really a Hudswell design, they have a lot in common with Brush DEs which we are also interested in.

[Michael Delamar]

They had 4ft 6in wheels and a 11ft 6in wheelbase.

 

that is the same as a class 08 isnt it?

 

maybe a kit could be based around one of the RTR offerings? maybe use the Hornby one as its a bit slimmer inside if I recall?

[Michael Delamar]

also, my MSC knowledge is very limited, but Im guessing if at Mode wheel they would be used on the steep inline up to Eccles?

[Pugsley]

they have a lot in common with Brush DEs which we are also interested in.

If you ever do those in 7mm scale, I'll definitely have one (I presume you mean the type as used by the Tyne and Wear Metro like this one: http://iansrailwaypics.smugmug.com/Trains/Gronks/i-hxCT5Np/0/L/Brush-shunter11-Mid-Norfolk-L.jpg).

[Adam]

If you ever do those in 7mm scale, I'll definitely have one (I presume you mean the type as used by the Tyne and Wear Metro like this one: http://iansrailwaypi...d-Norfolk-L.jpg).

 

Not quite Martin, those are somewhat later and I think Mike's done some work on those already (perhaps even a test model, I know I spoke to him about this at last year's Scaleforum I think). These show the front of a similar machine:

 

http://www.flickr.co...ler/3797599860/

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/industriallocomotive/h3be57476#h3be57476

 

Adam

Edited August 22, 2012 by Adam

[Arthur]

also, my MSC knowledge is very limited, but Im guessing if at Mode wheel they would be used on the steep inline up to Eccles?

 

Possibly, as that was very close to Mode Wheel, though I'm not sure if that incline wasn't worked largely by BR locomotives. I certainly saw mainline locomotives at the bottom of the incline but I never saw an MSC locomotive in Stott Lane sidings, from which the incline ran.

They worked in and around Salford Docks and Trafford Park, and also on the MSC 'mainline' along the north bank of the canal, westwards from Barton. In later years, one at least, was kept at the new shed near Kelloggs in Trafford Park, and worked trains from the Barton Road containerbase.

[Michael Edge]

If you ever do those in 7mm scale, I'll definitely have one (I presume you mean the type as used by the Tyne and Wear Metro like this one: http://iansrailwaypi...d-Norfolk-L.jpg).

We have done one test etch model in 4mm of the Tyne & Wear locos which were quite different (a cancelled export order actually), no immediate plans to put it into production though.

 

 

Michael Edge

Judith Edge kits

[hmrspaul]

There is some history, photographs, dimensions, and a diagram in Don Thorpe's Railways of the Manchester Ship Canal.

They had 4ft 6in wheels and a 11ft 6in wheelbase.

I could not see any evidence that they had been stationed at Ellesmere Port. That seems to be dominated by the six wheel sentinels.

 

I think these photographs are of one of these locos http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/industriallocomotive/e37d9c5f1 http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/industriallocomotive/e2ac4dda1

 

Paul Bartlett

[Michael Delamar]

I like the shots Paul, but dont like the grafitti .

[herman83]

I am attempting a model of 4002 using a Hornby 08 as a base. I know it won't be a perfect copy but hopefully it will capture the character of the original.

[Arthur]

 

 

Keep us informed of progress, sounds interesting.

[herman83]

[herman83]

Finally got round to posting the finished loco.

[Corbs]

Sad to report that 4001 has now been scrapped, being mostly cut up on site in Feb 2019. The remains were reportedly taken to Baron Street depot for component recovery, presumably as spares for 4002.

Photos from Andy on Flickr

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2019 by Corbs

[Mol_PMB]

I'm pleased to see some interest in the MSC Hudswell Clarke diesel-electrics, even if this is an old thread.

I believe there was a third loco to this general design, also a collaboration between Hudswell Clarke and Brush with the same National engine, HC DE1176 and BT 179 of 1960. I assume it looked the same but I have never seen a photo of it. It was supplied to the NCB for Woodside Colliery or Coppice Colliery.

[edit - having looked back a few more posts I think there is a photo of the third one in faded NCB livery]

 

I would definitely be in the market for a kit of one of these in 7mm scale, should any of the Edge family be reading...

 

Edited January 11, 2021 by Mol_PMB
re-read an earlier post and referred to it.