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TCS DP2X-UK in a Bachmann Pannier- setting up for shunting

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I've a recent (DCC ready) Bachmann Pannier to which I've fitted a TCS DP2X-UK chip. On DC the loco is a lovely smooth runner. On DCC (I'm using the basic Dynamis set up) it's a bit erratic. From the factory settings I've only changed the loco address and the number of speedsteps to 128. Up to step 8 the loco crawls along nicely but is still going pretty slow (and still gets foxed by baseboard joints and frogs at this speed, my other engine, a Bachmann Prairie with an unknown but cheap chip is fine over them at the same speed and all wheels/ track is clean). At step 9 the speed increases significantly, to about the maximum I'd want to be moving wagons about the yard at- coming back down the jump is equally big, which generally results in rather a lot of buffer bashing.

 

This loco is likely to be my main shunter (as it runs so well on DC), so I'd appreciate some advice on how to get the best out of it. Unfortunately at the moment I have no means of reading back CVs so I'm a bit reluctant to just play without any real knowledge of what I'm doing, and end up making things worse.

 

I'd be more than happy to have a low top speed in exchange for good smooth control at lower speeds. Most of my layout is station/ goods yard so the opportunities for spirited running are minimal.

 

I should add the engine is currently completely unmodified, bar swapping the blanking plate for the chip. I have heard mention of removal of capacitors etc to improve running on DCC but haven't been brave enough to do so!

 

Many thanks,

 

Matt

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There are some faulty DP2X-UK decoders around. I had one and it had to go back. There is a thread somewhere on here that covers it.

 

Edit : I've just done a search on the DP2X-UK to refresh my memory of the fault. Its like two thirds of the speed steps are missing. In my case I had the problem with a Bachmann Std 4 2-6-0. It went from a crawl to 100 MPH. Youve definitely got one of the faulty ones I'm afraid.

 

Have a read of the topic about 'the Model Rail Sentinal and TCS DP2X-UK'. Someone there lists the CVs you can check to get version numbers and manufacture date, and the values in the faulty ones.

Edited by Combe Martin

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Bother- thank you. I did do a search before posting and found that thread but somehow hadn't made the connection that mine might well be from the bad batch.

 

Cheers,

 

Matt

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There are some faulty DP2X-UK decoders around. I had one and it had to go back. There is a thread somewhere on here that covers it.

 

Edit : I've just done a search on the DP2X-UK to refresh my memory of the fault. Its like two thirds of the speed steps are missing. In my case I had the problem with a Bachmann Std 4 2-6-0. It went from a crawl to 100 MPH. Youve definitely got one of the faulty ones I'm afraid.

 

Have a read of the topic about 'the Model Rail Sentinal and TCS DP2X-UK'. Someone there lists the CVs you can check to get version numbers and manufacture date, and the values in the faulty ones.

Even "good " DP2X-UK decoders are anything but linear see various other postings on this topic.

Lenz Standard + are much more linear and cheaper.

 

Keith

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Even "good " DP2X-UK decoders are anything but linear see various other postings on this topic.

Lenz Standard + are much more linear and cheaper.

 

Keith

 

I'd agree with that too. You can buy a Lenz Standard+ decoder for less than a DP2X-UK these days (£18 from Hatton's for example). And Lenz decoders have a very useful shunting option that you can turn on and off with F3. When on it reduces the speed at all speed steps by 50%

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Would a Lenz Std+ fit in a Bachmann Pannier, they're a bit big !. I havnt seen inside a DCC ready pannier, so dont know how Bachman have modified it, but when I fitted a decoder to my non DCC ready pannier, I had to use something very small, and so used a Digitrax DN135D which just slides into the smokebox end of the boiler above the half round boiler weight.

 

And it has 'shunt speed' on an F key too.

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Would a Lenz Std+ fit in a Bachmann Pannier, they're a bit big !.

 

They are not that big, about the same width as a DP2X-UK and slightly longer.

Just fitted one in 8751, went in easily, fold excess wire back over the motor and sit decoder over socket (bit of insulation for safety!)

 

Keith

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The Lenz Standard+ decoder is roughly the same size as Bachmann's own brand, so if the loco will take that it will also take the Lenz.

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They are not that big, about the same width as a DP2X-UK and slightly longer.

Just fitted one in 8751, went in easily, fold excess wire back over the motor and sit decoder over socket (bit of insulation for safety!)

 

I don't wish to start a war lads, but I've got a Lenz Std+ and a TCS DP2X-UK sitting in front of me here.

 

The TCS measures 17.5 x 11.5 mm

The Lenz measures 25 x 15 mm

 

That means the area of the Lenz is almost twice that of the TCS ( 375 square mm against 201.25 )

 

If you lay a TCS across the Lenz, you can almost fit 2 of them in the same space (not that you'd need to), the width of the TCS is less than half the length of the Lenz.

 

I'm not disputing that you can get a Lenz Std+ in a DCC ready Bachmann Pannier, I know that when Bachmann modified the 22XX Collett to make it DCC ready (I have both) they created a lot more space, but I stand by my statement that the Lenz Std+ is still a 'bit big' !,

 

And I accept that because it's attached to a wiring loom, it's position is flexible, and I am a fan of the Lenz.

Edited by Combe Martin
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Ok, so it's bigger, but it fits OK as I said, without a lot of hassle. I was doing it when the thread started.

There are plenty of locos with less space.

If you really want small try a DCX74 - you could fit two where a DP2X-UK goes! I have one of those in front of me as well (for a non DCC ready 2251).

 

Keith

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If you really want small try a DCX74 - you could fit two where a DP2X-UK goes! I have one of those in front of me as well (for a non DCC ready 2251).

I know its off thread, but I'd be interested to know if you can get it in without chassis modifications. What I did was modify the non DCC ready 22XX in the same way that Bachmann did to make it DCC ready, ie ... basically saw the top half and the front protrusion off the boiler weight, and then leave the remaining lower bit attached to the chassis rather than the body, and I've done 2 so far. How much is a DCX74 ?

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I know its off thread, but I'd be interested to know if you can get it in without chassis modifications. What I did was modify the non DCC ready 22XX in the same way that Bachmann did to make it DCC ready, ie ... basically saw the top half and the front protrusion off the boiler weight, and then leave the remaining lower bit attached to the chassis rather than the body, and I've done 2 so far. How much is a DCX74 ?

I was wondering about removing some metal to make a recess in the boiler backhead.

The DCX74D is £29.74 from DCCsupplies.

 

 

Keith

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I was wondering about removing some metal to make a recess in the boiler backhead.

The DCX74D is £29.74 from DCCsupplies.

 

So quite expensive then, but I suppose all tiny decoders are. Its about the same price and size as the new ZTC262.

 

I just happen to have one of my converted 22XXs apart at the moment. I see what you mean about removing some metal from the backhead, but could that be a bit fiddly. Sawing a lump out of the boiler weight is a lot simpler.

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The DCX74D is an old decoder. Its also big compared to its successor, the DCX75. Which in turn is big compared to its successor the DCX76....

 

I wouldn't recommend any of those three for OO use; they are absolutely superb in N/2mm (see other threads). Probably fine in most 3mm models. They often struggle with providing enough current in 4mm scale (despite what is written on the spec sheet about current handling).

I'll only use a CT DCX74/75/76 in tiny 4mm locos, such as the smaller 0-4-0 industrials.

 

Smallish and suitable for OO, I'd start at a Zimo MX621, MX622 or MX623. The larger ones (still small) should be cheaper. Try Coastal DCC for Zimo decoders.

 

- Nigel

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Thanks for the advice folks. I'll try taking the TCS chip back and swapping it for a Lenz one for this engine I think- I'm fairly sure it is one of the duff batch. Does anyone know if there was a press release or anything official on the dodgy ones?

 

Might try one again in the future though- it's certainly a lot quieter than the (unknown) chip in my other engine, other than the lack of speed steps it seems pretty decent for the price & practicality.

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Thanks for the advice folks. I'll try taking the TCS chip back and swapping it for a Lenz one for this engine I think- I'm fairly sure it is one of the duff batch. Does anyone know if there was a press release or anything official on the dodgy ones?

 

Might try one again in the future though- it's certainly a lot quieter than the (unknown) chip in my other engine, other than the lack of speed steps it seems pretty decent for the price & practicality.

TCS decoders aren't necessarily faulty, some just don't have a particularly linear speed response. A Lenz decoder will provide almost a straight line voltage output as you increase your controller settings. A TCS decoder has some very obvious jumps/steps between certain throttle settings and some TCS decoders actually produce a slightly decreased output as you approach max throttle!

 

Keith

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TCS decoders aren't necessarily faulty, some just don't have a particularly linear speed response. A Lenz decoder will provide almost a straight line voltage output as you increase your controller settings. A TCS decoder has some very obvious jumps/steps between certain throttle settings and some TCS decoders actually produce a slightly decreased output as you approach max throttle!

The particular ones weve been discussing are definitely faulty. The one I had went straight from a crawl to 100mph. Its replacement behaves very differently.

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Its replacement behaves very differently.

 

Good to know it's much better

 

I have never managed to get a pannier to go 100mph, flat out only about 70mph with my set up (Lenz 100) with any decoder. The Lenz Standard + gives 67mph either direction when speed profiling with TrainController.

 

EDIT basic settings: start speed 0, mid speed 127 max speed 255. not using speed curve.

 

Keith

Edited by melmerby

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Good to know it's much better

 

I have never managed to get a pannier to go 100mph, flat out only about 70mph with my set up (Lenz 100) with any decoder. The Lenz Standard + gives 67mph either direction when speed profiling with TrainController.

 

EDIT basic settings: start speed 0, mid speed 127 max speed 255. not using speed curve.

Ah no, in my case I'd put it in a Bachmann standard Class 4 2-6-0, it was that that shot off like a 'bat out of hell'

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Ah no, in my case I'd put it in a Bachmann standard Class 4 2-6-0, it was that that shot off like a 'bat out of hell'

Sounds like it's rather over-geared!

 

Keith

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Matt

I use the DP2X-UK decoders in four locos , all perform to my satisfaction. ( now that I have resolved other issues ).

When I started with DCC I happened to get some advice from a chap in Australia who began with DCC in the early seventies , I

paraphrase some of his advice given re TCS decoder CV values :

To best simulate a loco pulling a heavy train set CV3 to around 35 or 40 and CV4 to about 15, CV4 controls the deceleration.

The loco should now pull away much smoother as it accelerates away.

Set CV2 at zero , CV6 is mid point volts and CV5 full speed volts or expressed another way starting speed midrange speed and top speed. It is best to set CV5

the top speed to something like 185 as zero value has no effect so the loco runs around like a slot car. CV6 is mid range speed so set it around half top speed

say 90. This creates a speed curve which combined with CV3 & CV4 will give the loco the air of pulling something heavy.

 

I have no knowledge of other decoders and the above comments are given to pass on something I found very useful . The only change to the above

I have made was to tinker with the deceleration value CV4. I hope that you reach the stage of enjoying adjusting CV settings and seeing the results.

 

Dave

Hi Dave,

From memory your settings did make the DP2X perform pretty well. BUT, many of us like to set CV5(top speed) to about 70, this gives a scale speed of about 25mph in my Crab when it is run at 28/28 speed steps, i.e. flat out.

ALSO, CV3 set at 250 to give a very slow acceleration when speed step set to 28/28.

Similarly, CV4 set to 75 to give a slow deceleration when throttle reduced to 0/28 speed steps.

 

It is these sorts of settings that the current DP2X decoders seem not to enjoy, they perform erratically, and I have had one or two fail on these settings.

Bob.

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Interestingly my Crab with a Lenz Standard + would not exceed 64 scale mph with CV5 set to 255.

It does have a flat speed profile which it didn't with a TCS DP2X-UK.The worst step was from 7 to 8 (of 28) where the speed went from 15 to 35mph!

 

I have bought TCS decoders for about 5 years and have different versions of some but they all have quirky speed profiles. Some are worse than others, current Lenz beat them hands down and are cheaper.

 

Keith

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Interestingly my Crab with a Lenz Standard + would not exceed 64 scale mph with CV5 set to 255.

It does have a flat speed profile which it didn't with a TCS DP2X-UK.The worst step was from 7 to 8 (of 28) where the speed went from 15 to 35mph!

 

I have bought TCS decoders for about 5 years and have different versions of some but they all have quirky speed profiles. Some are worse than others, current Lenz beat them hands down and are cheaper.

 

Keith

 

Many of the Bachmann steamers are quite highly geared and hence have a modest top speed. My two standard 5MTs, with Lenz Standard+ decoders, have a top speed of only 60 mph. That speed is no different to their previous Bachmann decoders.

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Interestingly my Crab with a Lenz Standard + would not exceed 64 scale mph with CV5 set to 255.

It does have a flat speed profile which it didn't with a TCS DP2X-UK.The worst step was from 7 to 8 (of 28) where the speed went from 15 to 35mph!

 

I have bought TCS decoders for about 5 years and have different versions of some but they all have quirky speed profiles. Some are worse than others, current Lenz beat them hands down and are cheaper.

 

Keith

 

Hi Keith,

I thought I tried and failed to fit a Lenz standard in my crab a year or two back, hence the DP2X. You want to help me with this please, where did you put it?

Bob

Edited by 250BOB

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Hi Bob

 

Perhaps wrongly , I got the impression from the original query that Matt was uncertain about adjusting CV values & was concerned that he may 'make things worse '.

 

Having had so much help on this forum myself I was hoping to encourage him to have a go at adjusting values . Very easy to be misunderstood .

 

I believe my post mentions that I have no direct experience of other decoders & I certainly have no axe to grind for/against any manufacturer.

Indeed as a result of information gleaned from other responses I will be trying a Lenz in my next loco purchase.

 

Dave

 

Hi Dave,

You are right with the values you quoted which should go a way to helping the OP. I too have 4 locos with DP2X decoders, but I only use them where space demands it.....otherwise I use Lenz wherever possible, everytime.

Bob.

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