Haymarket 64B

[landscapes]

Hi David,

 

I too have been following your thread with interest and have enjoyed watching the main 64B shed building evolve over the last few months. Some lovely structure modelling - you seem to be managing to get everything beautifully square and true which can be really difficult for a large building like this but so important. Wonky walls and roof lines destroy the illusion, however much careful detail there is

 

What a fantastic prototype you've chosen as well. A legendary shed; must have been one of the most stable allocations in the country. Once a 64B loco, always a 64B loco it seems!

 

Reading through your posts, looks like it might be a little while before the full layout is contemplated but I'm sure we'd all like to see any preliminary plans or doodles you may have? Would you want to portray some of the running lines and the nearby station as well or just the depot?

 

Regards,

 

'Robert'

 

Hi Robert

 

Many thanks for your reply, regarding any track plans or shed layouts, these will be based on Haymarket how it was in the mid 1950's or as close as I can get it within a 4mm scale, the station was about a mile away to the east of the depot

 

The two publications on Haymarket by Harry Knox have some very good track layout illustrations in them which will be very helpful to me, but that is quite a way off yet.

 

But I do intend to keep the layout to just the shed area plus the East and West yards, one at each end of the depot and of course the turntable area.

 

Regards

 

David

[landscapes]

Hi David,

Very impressed with your efforts, I will watch with interest its development. Have you given any thought to what turntable you will use? I don't know if you've seen the one that Metalsmith Ltd are develpoing at the moment I think its exactly what you need for Haymarket . Take a look

MetalSmith Ltd.

Kettering

NN16 8NS

England

http://www.metalsmit...le_00_EM_P4.htm

Cheers

Ian H

(Haymarket Cross)

 

Hi Ian

 

Thanks for your reply, I am a great admirer of your Haymarket Cross layout, if this project gets anywhere near the quality of your layout I will be more than happy.

 

Regarding turntables JeffP also mentioned Metalsmiths some time ago and they do look very good, and I think that's the way I will go with this.

 

I did build a Peco turntable a few years ago and weathered it as well, but to me it just does not look right and it's up in the loft at the moment.

 

I enclose a photo of it below.

 

Regards

 

David

[davidw]

Hi Ian

 

Thanks for your reply, I am a great admirer of your Haymarket Cross layout, if this project gets anywhere near the quality of your layout I will be more than happy.

 

Regarding turntables JeffP also mentioned Metalsmiths some time ago and they do look very good, and I think that's the way I will go with this.

 

I did build a Peco turntable a few years ago and weathered it as well, but to me it just does not look right and it's up in the loft at the moment.

 

I enclose a photo of it below.

 

Regards

 

David

 

It doesn't seem to bad

[landscapes]

It doesn't seem to bad

 

Hi David

 

You are right the turntable as a product is fine, It's just the design, it's not the same as the old Haymarket 70 foot turntable, also I think that the handrails do not look right in plastic, they look to heavy.

 

Regards

 

David

[silverlink]

One of the biggest problems with turntables is getting them to line up with the exit roads, to this end I decided on the Fleischmann model as it always lines up perfectly. As it is of 'continental' origion I went to town on it with the old minidrill and 'Anglosized' it this has met with widespread approval at shows attended. Whilst I understand its still not fully British at least it looks the part but more importantly it always lines up when in the heat of battle at a show.

This is the turntable I refer to

[landscapes]

Hi Ian

 

Very nice turntable, love the B1 as well, is it the new Hornby version.

 

I am still sold on the Metalsmith's turntable, as you said earlier very similar to the Haymarket one.

 

How about some more photos of your fantastic layout haven't seen any new ones for some time now.

 

Regards

 

David

[JeffP]

The only problem with continental turntables is the size: the largest one on the continent was 90 feet diameter, against 70 feet here.

 

even allowing for HO vs OO, that's 78ft 9 inches, FAR bigger than any UK table.

[silverlink]

Hi Ian

 

Very nice turntable, love the B1 as well, is it the new Hornby version.

 

I am still sold on the Metalsmith's turntable, as you said earlier very similar to the Haymarket one.

 

How about some more photos of your fantastic layout haven't seen any new ones for some time now.

 

Regards

 

David

I will try & get some more photos taken as I've got the layout back up in my loft & fully working (minus the fiddle yard which won't fit) also there are one or two new locos I could do with pictures of. I've just had Andy York & Richard Wilson of BRM here doing loads of photos for the magazine & I understand it is to featured in the Feb edtion. The B1 is one of the Hornby ones renumbered as a 64B one.

Cheers

Ian H

[landscapes]

Ian

 

I will look forward to seeing your layout in the Feb addition of BRM.

 

Regards

 

David

[silverlink]

The only problem with continental turntables is the size: the largest one on the continent was 90 feet diameter, against 70 feet here.

 

even allowing for HO vs OO, that's 78ft 9 inches, FAR bigger than any UK table.

Whilst I totally agree with you over the size issue, believe me when you have any of the Pacifics on it they more or less fill the full length of the table. As there is no other reliable turntable around at the moment I will have to make do with the Fleischmann one. My exhibition layout has two of these in use with the one in the fiddle yard been standard 'straight out of the box' the one used on the main layout (above) uses the optional Fleischmann remote operating unit (6915) which allows for use either manually or remote digitally. Both tables are used dozens of time a day at a show and have worked brilliantly for us.

Ian H

[landscapes]

Reading through your posts, looks like it might be a little while before the full layout is contemplated but I'm sure we'd all like to see any preliminary plans or doodles you may have? Would you want to portray some of the running lines and the nearby station as well or just the depot?

 

Regards,

 

'Robert'

 

Hi Robert

 

Your reply yesterday got me thinking about just how big a prototype model of Haymarket would be at 4mm scale.

 

So using the OS map in Harry Knox's new publication "History of Haymarket 1842-2010" and using a scale ruler I worked out that a layout which includes the main engine shed, all out buildings and structures, both the east and west yards plus the main running lines to the south of the entire site would measure 4'-0" x 14'-0" in size.

 

We are looking to move house within the next few years so now I know what size modelling room I need.

 

Regards

 

David

[landscapes]

WOW !!! ~ Haymarket MPD ! . . . or to give it its' "real" title -- just 'Haymarket shed' as it was affectionately known to me 50 odd years ago.

 

This thread (which I've just found) is like a time machine for me!

A big thank you for building this and posting it here. What a fabuloius model you've made.

 

I used to return home every weekend with a fair smattering of Haymarket grime on my clothes ~ back in the late 50s it wasn't as clean and pristine as your model!

 

Now, when it's complete you'll have to incorporate it into a working layout, then you can carry on and build models of Dalry Road and St Margaret's sheds !!! (just to fully round out my time machine!)

 

Great build.

 

Hi Holyrood 60152

 

A Merry Christmas to you.

 

When you say you use to return home each weekend with a fair smattering of Haymarket Grime on your clothes, may I ask did you work at the depot or did you just visit it regularly.

 

Regards

 

David

 

[Holyrood 60152]

Hi Holyrood 60152

 

A Merry Christmas to you.

 

When you say you use to return home each weekend with a fair smattering of Haymarket Grime on your clothes, may I ask did you work at the depot or did you just visit it regularly.

 

Regards

 

David

 

Hi David,

 

First, apologies for the delay in answering your post.

My weekend forays to the Edinburgh sheds in the late 50s was only in my capacity of trainspotter, although my dad had been a fireman there until the early 50s.

The 'grime' I mentioned was from my close encounters with whatever locos were lying around, and inside, the sheds.

We weren't supposed to be in the area at all, but it was a rare occasion when we would be challenged and sent packing.

 

Now, if I can just find that fully functioning time machine . . . . .

 

Jim.

[landscapes]

Hi Jim

 

Many thanks for the reply, the reason I asked was I am having a small problem with the roof light design on the Haymarket depot model.

 

I just cannot obtain a good aerial photo of the depot or photos of the shed roof taken say from the coaling tower around the mid fifties period and I thought you may of possible had some if you had worked there.

 

Harry Knox has been a great source of help and information but unfortunately he does not have any roof photos of the depot in his time of working there.

 

From the two publications on Haymarket I have a reasonable idea of what they might be but I would like if possible to get the design as accurate as I can.

 

If you ever find that time machine please let me know.

 

All the best

 

David

Edited December 21, 2012 by landscapes

[26power]

There is/was a book available of aerial photos of Edinburgh from about the 1930s. "Old Edinburgh views from above" John A Jones, Stenlake Publishing, 2002. Unfortunately only a very small bit of Haymarket in one corner of one picture. A couple of the same pictures at:

 

http://www.edinphoto.org.uk/0_maps/0_maps_thumbnails.htm

 

This also references another book of aerial pictures, which I've not seen:

"Edinburgh From the Air: 70 Years of Aerial Photography".

 

I think I've also seen some of these online but can't recall where. I did also enquire of City of Edinburgh Council as to where the original negatives where (they get mentioned in the book I have) but without a lot of joy.

 

Couple of books that might help:

 

"Rail Centres: Edinburgh", A J Mullay. Seems yo have pictures of the vents, or holes in the roof in later years!

 

Also: "BR Steam Motive Power Depots, ScR" Paul Bolger, and, more generally, "An Illustrated History of Edinburgh's Railways" WAC Smith and Paul Anderson.

 

There is a website for aerial photographs, but I don't seem to have it bookmarked.

 

Hope some of this helps!

 

Cheers,

 

26power

[landscapes]

Thanks 26power

 

You have been of great help to me, I will follow up some of the books you refer too.

 

Regards

 

David

[Holyrood 60152]

Hi David,

 

Apart from a few stray photos of Haymarket that I have, all the rest are in Harry Knox's 2 books which you also have.

 

All these stray pics are of the outside of the shed but I have one (internet) photo taken inside the shed and it focuses mainly on the 2 locos there, but there is a glimpse of the roof from the inside although there's not a lot of detail there. I expect you've also seen this pic. In any case I'll PM you in connection with it.

 

Jim.

[landscapes]

Thanks for your help Jim.

 

David

[landscapes]

Hi Everyone

 

May I take this opportunity to wish you all a very Happy New Year for 2013.

 

I'm afraid that Modelling has taken a bit of a back seat over the last few days with the arrival of our new Granddaughter "Evelyn"

 

But I have made some progress over the Christmas period  but no photos at the moment, hope to take some tomorrow if the sun is out.

 

I have started the slate roof tiles, the same method as Sandside on his Bacup layout and I can tell you it's really time consuming printing and cutting out rows and rows of printed slates for twelve roof sections.

 

But if they come out anywhere near as good as the Bacup buildings it will be well worth it and for only the cost of a few pounds, a bargain. 

 

Regards

 

David

Edited December 31, 2012 by landscapes

[landscapes]

HI Guys

It,s been a while since my last update.

 

I have been trying to create the look of a well worn tiled roof using Sandsides method of strips of tiles on white card.

 

I have completed the first of twelve roof sections but I am not sure if it looks right or if I could improve on it, it still has to be weathered and fitted in place complete with ridge tiles.

 

But before I go any further I would welcome any constructive comments from my fellow members, do you think it looks acceptable or do you think it spoils the overall look.

 

I always respect the feedback I get from the Web.

 

Regards

 

David

Edited January 13, 2013 by landscapes

[davidw]

Looks very acceptable to me - perhaps smoke stains above the loco entrance would help?

[landscapes]

Thanks David

I still have a lot more work to do including the weathering all the shed walls.

Regards

David

[southern42]

Hi.

I'm enjoying this thread.  I'd be interested in seeing how a Metalsmith's turntable works out on your layout.  I remember someone on the Haymarket Cross team at Hartlepool saying how reliable the Fleishmann turntable was.  I see that Metalsmith's does a GWR one as well. 

 

I also like the look of your shed.  I agree that creating your own 'slates' gives a more natural look

.

If this can help, here's a link to explain the construction of a slate roof.

http://www.llechicymru.info/MainGallery/CwtyBugail/pages/T0000624.english.htm

Where we live, slate roofs are the norm and we've recently had our roof reslated.

I'm no expert but sometimes slate roofs on models can look 'wrong' to me. This is largely because the 'slates' don't overlap correctly.  It is more noticeable when slates are missing and the battens are exposed.

 

I've noticed how much members pay attention to modelling details so just hope this will be of help to anyone doing a slate roof (including me when I do my northlight GWR shed).

 

Watching this hoping I can learn from you.

Polly

[pH]

I've been watching this thread with admiration since the beginning. It brings back memories - I only went round the shed once in steam days, but several times after that.

 

You ask about the details of the roof. I'm looking at the picture you posted on 11 December 2012 - in particular what you describe as the 'windowless roof lights to the east wall roof elevation'. Were you working from a dated picture when you built that part of the roof? Because I've seen a picture taken in the 1950s where the east-facing side of that first roof looks quite different. Those windowless roof lights are part of  what looks like a row of rooflights almost right across the whole roof. If they are roof lights, all of them, except those directly over the shed roads, are glazed.

 

The picture is in an article titled 'Edinburgh (Haymarket) shed in the 1950s' in 'Steam Days' for February 2008. The picture in the article concentrate on the engines, but there are 3 or 4 which show the east and west ends of the shed.

Edited January 13, 2013 by pH

[landscapes]

 

Hi.

I'm enjoying this thread.  I'd be interested in seeing how a Metalsmith's turntable works out on your layout.  I remember someone on the Haymarket Cross team at Hartlepool saying how reliable the Fleishmann turntable was.  I see that Metalsmith's does a GWR one as well. 

 

I also like the look of your shed.  I agree that creating your own 'slates' gives a more natural look

.

If this can help, here's a link to explain the construction of a slate roof.

http://www.llechicymru.info/MainGallery/CwtyBugail/pages/T0000624.english.htm

 

Where we live, slate roofs are the norm and we've recently had our roof reslated.

I'm no expert but sometimes slate roofs on models can look 'wrong' to me. This is largely because the 'slates' don't overlap correctly.  It is more noticeable when slates are missing and the battens are exposed.

 

I've noticed how much members pay attention to modelling details so just hope this will be of help to anyone doing a slate roof (including me when I do my northlight GWR shed).

 

Watching this hoping I can learn from you.

Polly

Many thanks for the link and good luck with your GWR Shed, I will look forward to seeing your progress.

 

Regards

 

David

Edited January 13, 2013 by landscapes