auldreekie Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 David, The photograph which I promised. Hope you may find this helpful.... auldreekie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 Hi auldreekie That is a very interesting and useful drawing, I wish i had known about a month ago, still if i decide some time in the future to scratch build the coaling tower is would be very helpful indeed. in some ways it is still a good source of information as it shows me details I was unaware of so I can still use it as a reference in adapting the Bachmann coaling tower so many thanks for sending it to me. I enclose below some photos of my coaling tower adaption so far. there is still lots of work still to do on it, I have purchased 1mm dia wire and handrail knobs which will go on either side of the tower for the counter weights. There is also the coal truck platform and pulley system to install, I managed to get some brass 7mm dis pulleys from the Squires Catalogue as well as the handrail knobs. Also the whole item needs to be painted where required and then weathered. Regards David 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
auldreekie Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) David, That looks superb. I had no idea you were so far advanced. What material are you using for extending the Bachmann tower? I was not familiar with the Bachmann tower, and I've no idea what original it is based on. It does look as if it was intended to straddle one track, but I see you have made some at least of the necessary adaptation of the "jigglers" so that they project off to the face opposite the coal tippler. As I said before, I'm not as clear as I wish to be on the precise mechanism of the tippling and on how exactly the coal wagon is restrained from vanishing into the abyss when it is tipped. But I'm a bit doubtful about the way in which the side-rails of your tippler disappear into the void. I sort of expect them to be keyed to the main structural frames of the building, since they must give rise to the maximal stresses which it experiences. And I think, if I remember rightly, that's as suggested by such photographic evidence as I could muster. I'd also like to find out a bit more about how the hoppers are arranged internally in these particular structures at Haymarket and Kittybrewster. It looks as if there might be two of them, and was there any provision of a movable baffle enabling coal to be directed to one or other of them? auldreekie Edited February 17, 2015 by auldreekie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwordsmith Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Blooming 'eck David that tower is seriously impressive! Work has finally started on Waverley East! Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 David, That looks superb. I had no idea you were so far advanced. What material are you using for extending the Bachmann tower? I was not familiar with the Bachmann tower, and I've no idea what original it is based on. It does look as if it was intended to straddle one track, but I see you have made some at least of the necessary adaptation of the "jigglers" so that they project off to the face opposite the coal tippler. As I said before, I'm not as clear as I wish to be on the precise mechanism of the tippling and on how exactly the coal wagon is restrained from vanishing into the abyss when it is tipped. But I'm a bit doubtful about the way in which the side-rails of your tippler disappear into the void. I sort of expect them to be keyed to the main structural frames of the building, since they must give rise to the maximal stresses which it experiences. And I think, if I remember rightly, that's as suggested by such photographic evidence as I could muster. I'd also like to find out a bit more about how the hoppers are arranged internally in these particular structures at Haymarket and Kittybrewster. It looks as if there might be two of them, and was there any provision of a movable baffle enabling coal to be directed to one or other of them? auldreekie Hi auldreekie Thank you for your comments. I too was trying to find out as much information as possible on how the coaling tower actually worked but i got frustrated by the lack of information available so i just guessed at what might happen and how it looked from Haymarket photos available and just took the plunge and adapted the Bachmann tower as best as I could. It should look a lot better once the coal wagon platform and hoist have been constructed and installed plus other details such as the side counter balance weights, I will also try to construct from my imagination some type of framework that would have gone over the coal truck once raised to the top of the tower and allowed it to be tipped over emptying the coal into the tower itself. The top section added on was constructed from 1.5mm thick card then faced in 0.5mm thick White plastic sheet, any gaps were filled using PVA glue mixed with a small amount of polyfiller smoothed in with a wet cotton bud, all other trims were cut out from either 1mm or 0.5mm which white plastic sheets. any White plastic has been sprayed using Tamiya spray paint Ref AS-20 Insignia White which was very close to the Bachmann Grey paint use on their tower and once weathered it should match up very well. I will try to find a photo of the original Bachmann coaling tower so you can see what alteration have been done. Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 Blooming 'eck David that tower is seriously impressive! Work has finally started on Waverley East! Peter Thanks Peter, I have been following your progress on your Waverley East layout thread. I thought constructing Haymarket was going to be a mammoth task but compered with your proposed layout it now seems quite small. I must say your new layout and design looks very impressive indeed and I look forward to seeing your own progress in the future as well. Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 Hi All Two new locomotives to join the Haymarket 64B collection. The new Hornby K1 62024 which will be a visiting locomotive from the Newcastle area plus Hornby A3 60100 Spearmint which was a long term 64B locomotive. The A3 I thought was a barging on Ebay, advertised as brand new unused in it's box for £79.00 including P&P, it started out as 60035 Windsor Lad which had the correct boiler and tender to change its identity to 60100 using all the usual add-on bits from Gary at 247 Developments such as etched nameplates, smokebox number plate, shed code plate and works plates. Regards David 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
auldreekie Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 David, Thank you greatly. It's not a question of it not looking good. It looks GREAT. As ever (and it's part of what caused me to pause a few years ago and go off at a tangent) my concern is with how precisely the damned thing worked. I don't know, so I cannot pontificate about your solution. The side-rails for the tippler do appear, from my partial photographic reference, to go into the void. But equally clearly they are anchored very firmly indeed to the main concrete frames at the ends of the structure, as one might reasonably expect. I AM tempted to reactivate this project by attempting a parallel construction, if only because doing so may help to elucidate what really does go on when the wagon is tipped. Nothing like actually having scale replicas of the relevant bits and pieces to hand...... For one thing, those metal (?) structures at the top of the side-rails appear to have curved, rather than segmental, undersides, and careful study of photographs reveals a corresponding projection beneath, with a curved upper surface which looks as if it may have a role in guiding or restraining the deck on which the tipped wagon is carried. But I'm guessing in the dark. Perhaps there's someone out there who can remember operating these enormous contraptions..... auldreekie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 Hi auldreekie I have managed to find a photo of the Bachmann Scenecraft Coaling Tower and enclose here below for reference on what alterations I have carried out so far, I do hope I have not broken any copyright issues by putting the photo on this thread. I do believe that the Bachmann coaling tower is based on one that was at one of the Bristol MPD's Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
auldreekie Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 David, Superb once more! Now I see why you've done as you have. I wonder if the original of the Bachmann model was longer, with perhaps more hoppers, than the Haymarket installation. You reckon one of the Bristol sheds. Was there an LMS shed in Bristol? (I believe the GWR didn't go in for these things, as they used friable South Wales coal). Carnforth has been suggested to me. I shall do a bit of delving.... auldreekie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 David, Superb once more! Now I see why you've done as you have. I wonder if the original of the Bachmann model was longer, with perhaps more hoppers, than the Haymarket installation. You reckon one of the Bristol sheds. Was there an LMS shed in Bristol? (I believe the GWR didn't go in for these things, as they used friable South Wales coal). Carnforth has been suggested to me. I shall do a bit of delving.... auldreekie I think it may have been based on the one at Bristol Barrow Road which I believe was LMS. Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
auldreekie Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I always wondered where Barrow Road was! auldreekie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
auldreekie Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 From a quick look at images on the web, it could be either, but the shape of the hoppers beneath suggests Carnforth. auldreekie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwordsmith Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Thanks David - glad you;re impressed! P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 As ever (and it's part of what caused me to pause a few years ago and go off at a tangent) my concern is with how precisely the damned thing worked. I don't know, so I cannot pontificate about your solution. But I'm guessing in the dark. Perhaps there's someone out there who can remember operating these enormous contraptions..... Evening chaps, A partial answer which if nothing else might point you in the right direction. I'm too young to remember the actual things but, from a mix of drawings and pictures, the way they worked seems to have been as follows: At the top of the hoist, waiting to engage with the top of the wagon was a massive beam (running lengthways). This was hinged, with an even more massive counter weight on the other side. The wagon came into contact with the beam as it started to be tipped over and the effect of the counter weight was to clamp the wagon between the beam and the hoist table and quite simply over it went! The contents would be discharged almost instantly and it would then simply reverse back the way it came until the wagon was near level again when it would disengage with the beam (back at its starting point if you see what I mean) and the empty wagon would descend back down and the process would repeat with the next wagon. You are correct about a directional flap at the top of the bunkers that the operator could set according to the quality of coal in the wagon. The two bunkers would then hold two different grades of coal according to the duty of the locomotive type and the driver would have to position the loco tender / bunker under the appropriate chute. Best grade coal for express work; 'slack' / ovoids (etc) for the rest! At home (alas, not with me at the moment), I have some detailed sectional diagrams of the LMS standard types from their 1930's modernisation programme so could provide these if interested (noting that 64B was of course an LNER shed!) - I think the Bachmann item is based on one of these LMS standard types. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
auldreekie Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Thank you very much. That's very helpful indeed to at least one of us. In particular, your explanation of the beam fills a gap in my knowledge. I'm guessing, then, that the beam is pivoted at a level above the point of contact with the wagon, and counterbalanced by a weight whose level of attachment is above the pivot. That seems quite clear. What is not clear is how the beam then prevents the wagon from plunging into the depths. Perhaps there is some mechanism or structure behind the beam which limits the extent to which it can pivot? auldreekie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 When the beam is at rest (ie waiting for the wagon) the counterbalance weight is dead bottom (ie at 'six o'clock'). It was arranged such that the rotation of the beam / weight with the wagon in contact was never more that 180deg so that the weight would always be wanting to return in the direction that it had come and hence maintaining the 'clamping' effect. Definitely one of those where a picture is worth a 1000 words!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
auldreekie Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I'm thinking about it! Perhaps, when I'm a bit more alert tomorrow morning, I'll try to draw for my own benefit how that description might have worked.... Grateful. auldreekie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Eureka moment! (Well, sort of). I suddenly remember that I'd previously posted details on 92220's Camden Shed thread so have retrieved the attached from there. Right, now we're in business... Except that the Camden plant appears to have been a variation on a theme whereby the thing it comes into contact with at the top of the hoist is described as a 'swinging cradle' - not sure I can quite figure out myself exactly how that is supposed to work(!) But hopefully it sheds (ooh, terrible pun) some light. (even though it's an LMS design) I'll keep looking for pics of LNER plants to see if I can find a clear picture that matches my balanced beam description... (I haven't dreamt it, honest!) (Hope your OK with all this on your thread, David? I don't think it's really off topic...?) RG article.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
auldreekie Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Many thanks. And apologies to David for starting this diversion. I hope he too is finding it helpful. I'm still pondering.... auldreekie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
auldreekie Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 (edited) Yippee... I've now had the eureka moment. It was your explanation together with Beavor's diagram that did it. - The beam which supports the tipped wagon is in fact the top member of a set of "goalposts" pivoted pretty much where the wagon-supporting cradle pivots as it tips. - The counterweight is yet another one (distinct from the ones counterweighting the wagon plus cradle in their passage up and down the face of the hoist), this time against the "back" wall of the hoist, the wall away from the wagon tippler. - The counterweight is connected to the top of the beam by one or more (presumably steel) ropes which loop over pulleys at the top of the back wall. Alles klart! Many thanks once more. I now reckon I could model a fair representation of this, although I'm not sure that my ambition would yet stretch to making it functional.... auldreekie Edited February 18, 2015 by auldreekie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 Eureka moment! (Well, sort of). I suddenly remember that I'd previously posted details on 92220's Camden Shed thread so have retrieved the attached from there. Right, now we're in business... Except that the Camden plant appears to have been a variation on a theme whereby the thing it comes into contact with at the top of the hoist is described as a 'swinging cradle' - not sure I can quite figure out myself exactly how that is supposed to work(!) But hopefully it sheds (ooh, terrible pun) some light. (even though it's an LMS design) I'll keep looking for pics of LNER plants to see if I can find a clear picture that matches my balanced beam description... (I haven't dreamt it, honest!) (Hope your OK with all this on your thread, David? I don't think it's really off topic...?) Hi LNER4479 Many thanks to both your good self and auldreekie for the very valuable input you have both provided. The drawings show more than enough information to detail up the coaling tower, although the more detail there is it brings to light how difficult it can be to try to model something so intricate as a coaling tower and try to make it look right. Many thanks again to both of you. Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
auldreekie Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I think that the key to making it "look right" is knowing how it works. So it looks as if you have done both of us a considerable favour. Now, where did I leave the bits and pieces of my Haymarket shed model.....? auldreekie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 (edited) I think that the key to making it "look right" is knowing how it works. So it looks as if you have done both of us a considerable favour. Now, where did I leave the bits and pieces of my Haymarket shed model.....? auldreekie Thanks and good luck with your layout as well, please let me know how you get on. Regards David Edited February 18, 2015 by landscapes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxie22 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Hey Dave, That tower is looking excellent! I have had to take a hiatus on my Haymarket based layout. However your thread may very well get the coals burning (pun intended) on it again. Your work is very inspiring! Regards, Jules Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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