Continental HO

[Allegheny1600]

Italy is certainly an interesting country to base a model on - I rather like their little home-built diesels and numerous railcars!

As to wagons travelling around - no problem!

When I lived in SW France between 1979-1983, my local station very often had more foreign registered wagons in attendance than local ones!

Therefore, I am sure that a little local station in Italy could easily justify a goodly number of DB, SNCF, NS, SNCB, DSB, OBB, MAV, CZ and etc wagons - you can always build up an Italian wagon fleet by trawling swapmeets, shows, 'continental' dealers and, even - ebay.it!

The GRS show at Sutton Coldfield tomorrow is well supported by the trade, you know!

Cheers,

John E.

[mp55aec]

Keep us updated with progress on a blog!!

 

If your Italian layout is as good as what Ive seen of your North American layout it will be damn good, I cant remember how many years ago but on one of the model rails there was an 'International" supplement with a really good Italian layout.

 

I was kindly given this link from Doctor Quinn for my Norwegian layout but scroll down and there are some links to Italian shops that may be of interest to you for certain supplies

 

http://www.osjk.dk/modelbaneforhandlere.html

 

And

 

http://www.cmfmodels.it/

[doctor quinn]

Another Danish site has a good selection of wagon photos listed by railway administration http://www.godsvogne.dk/dok/billovers.htm

 

All of the pictures are taken at locations in Denmark, which gives some indication of the amount of through running by European wagons.

 

Looking forward to seeing the layout.

 

Nick

[mp55aec]

Continental modeller Feb 2012 had an colour 8 page layout of the month, diesel era Italian you may want to try and get a copy

[squeaky]

Continental modeller Feb 2012 had an colour 8 page layout of the month, diesel era Italian you may want to try and get a copy

 

Silly me I already have it I'll have a good read of it, Thanks

[squeaky]

Well I've started a blog, as suggested by mp55aec. I have so far got 2 D753 locos and a pair of coil wagons. I have 2 D345 locos on the way!

 

I would like to have an electric loco, so I will be needing a bit of overhead catenary setting up. I'm going to go with the Sommerfedlt masts and wires. The only thing I'm not sure of is which length of wires to get, they are available in several lengths, I.e. 180mm, 215mm, 229mm, 250mm etc. Do I just get the longest ones for the straight bits and the shorter ones for going round curves, are there any set rules?

[Pacific231G]

I've been doing lots of research on Continental modelling and I've decided on Italy. I really like the D.752(753) locos which were originally built in the Czech Republic. Some of them have found their way to Italy and have been repainted into various interesting colour schemes.

See here http://www.hornbyint...any-livery.html

 

One of the things I would like to clarify is wagon movements around Europe. Can say a DB registered wagon find its way into Italy or do they tend to stay in their country of ownership?

 

The main reason for this the lack of FS branded models.

 

Wagons certainly did and do move around Europe a great deal especially those handling specific long distance traffics. Though wagons from the national railway in any country would be in the majority in most yards, except perhaps those close to borders, you'd often find several from elsewhere. It's probably a bit like the balance of say GW and the wagons of other companies in a typical pre-nationalisation GW yard. I'm a little surprised at the lack of FS branded models as Rivarossi (now part of Hornby) have long been one of Europe's major manufacturers and though the current range looks a bit limited their should be plenty available second hand.

 

You may find it worth joining the Italian Railway Society http://www.italianrailways.co.uk/ and they'd certainly know how to source FS branded models. Several of my colleagues in the SNCF Society also model Italian railways and are members and though it's smaller than some other continental societies they do seem a very friendly and helpful bunch who between them have produced a good number of very attractive layouts. If I wasn't so comitted to French railways I'd certainly be looking at Italy- they ran good services on fairly minor lines long after SNCF or BR would have closed them to passengers if not completely and some of their stock was and is very stylish.

[trisonic]

Howzabout a French/Italian border layout (along the Med)?

 

I've often thought about that but just how do you handle France driving on the Left and Italy driving on the Right????

 

Could be very interesting with the architecture etc.

 

Best, Pete.

[Pacific231G]

Howzabout a French/Italian border layout (along the Med)?

 

I've often thought about that but just how do you handle France driving on the Left and Italy driving on the Right????

 

Could be very interesting with the architecture etc.

 

Best, Pete.

 

Italian trains also run on the left as do those in Switzerland and Belgium - Early British influence and all that- so it's only at the German border (or that with Alsace-Lorraine) where trains have to change sides often by using flyovers on main lines.

The Franco Italian border is very attractive. Until a year or so ago French local trains along the Cote d'Azure ran through to Ventimiglia and many Italian long distance trains terminated in Nice so in places like Monaco you had trains from both countries.

[trisonic]

That makes it easier. Monaco - now there's an idea for someone younger than me... All the times i've been to Italy I've never ridden a train, d'oh.

 

Thanks, David. Pete.

 

PS What about Spain/France?????????? Maybe a subject for a new thread...

[Pacific231G]

That makes it easier. Monaco - now there's an idea for someone younger than me... All the times i've been to Italy I've never ridden a train, d'oh.

 

Thanks, David. Pete.

 

PS What about Spain/France?????????? Maybe a subject for a new thread...

 

Nowadays the railway in Monaco has all been hidden away in tunnels to free more building land. At one time not only did the line curve through the principality in a very attractive way (you see it in films like The Red Shoes) with two stations at Monaco and Monte-Carlo (near the Casino) but there was also at one time a harbour branch serving the then commercial port. This was before the time when Monaco's main business became rich people. Nowadays there are only large yachts and no sign at all that I could find of the old harbour branch tunnel.

 

I think there have only ever been three cross border railways between France and Italy with the actual borders between Menton-Vintimille (Ventimiglia); Modane-Bardonecchia and either side of Breil-sur-Roya where the situation is a bit complicated. That's because the Italian route from Vintimille to Cuneo runs through a chunk of French territory including Breil-sur-Roya which is also the junction for an SNCF line to Nice. The stations in France are owned by RFF and operated by SNCF but the signalling looks to be Italian as does the architecture and more trains go down to Vintimille than to Nice and they are all Italian. The line has incredible scenery and SNCF runs the "Train des Merveilles" from Nice to Cuneo. I explored the area three years ago while staying in Nice but thanks to yet another SNCF strike had to travel via Vintimille but that's an interesting place itself. I returned to Nice from Vintimille on a long distance Italian train which was far more elegant than anything on offer from SNCF.

 

Spain/France requires a change of gauge which has led to some interesting border stations though fewer international passenger trains near the border (apart from the Talgos that change their gauge without stopping and a few trains that changed bogies) and there should be four routes that cross the border. At La Tour de Carol the international station is on the French side and is also the terminus for the metre gauge 3rd rail Cerdagne line. At Hendaye-Irun and Cerbere-Port Bou passenger trains would normally cross the border before terminating on the other side. The fourth route via Canfranc, where the international station is on the Spanish side, has been closed since an accident on the French side in 1970. Re-opening is constantly discussed and the line and its overhead is still intact but this does seem unlikely. AFAIK Spanish trains still run to Canfranc from Huesca. So far as I know this was the only one of the four Franco-Spanish crossings where only one gauge (French SG) actually crossed the frontier.

[Bernard Lamb]

Canfranc would be challenging to model

A magnificent building in virtually the middle of nowhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gare_internationale_de_Canfranc_-_l%27_entr%C3%A9e_(1994).jpg

I have made the trip on the yellow train to T de C but never managed to get to Canfranc.

Bernard

[mickey9]

Thanks for all the replies, i've been doing lots of research and I want to get a D753 or RH478 which I believe are the same??

 

Can anyone tell me which is better a Rivarossi or Roco version?

just a note to say that if you are considering modelling the FS,there is a brilliant Italian website at:

www.scalatt.it/fotostorie.htm

Lots of HO layouts in pictures,click on the link to each layout,great detail and lots of layout ideas and rolling stock.

If you need inspiration,this is it!

[Joseph_Pestell]

Howzabout a French/Italian border layout (along the Med)?

 

I've often thought about that but just how do you handle France driving on the Left and Italy driving on the Right????

 

Could be very interesting with the architecture etc.

 

Best, Pete.

 

Not a big problem on that particular border as the Italian side is single-track.

 

But the same problem pertains within France as Alsace-Lorraine is RH due its time as part of Germany. On the main Paris-Strasbourg route this is catered for by a flyover. I have seen a model of this on a large French club layout.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Nowadays the railway in Monaco has all been hidden away in tunnels to free more building land. At one time not only did the line curve through the principality in a very attractive way (you see it in films like The Red Shoes) with two stations at Monaco and Monte-Carlo (near the Casino) but there was also at one time a harbour branch serving the then commercial port. This was before the time when Monaco's main business became rich people. Nowadays there are only large yachts and no sign at all that I could find of the old harbour branch tunnel.

 

I think there have only ever been three cross border railways between France and Italy with the actual borders between Menton-Vintimille (Ventimiglia); Modane-Bardonecchia and either side of Breil-sur-Roya where the situation is a bit complicated. That's because the Italian route from Vintimille to Cuneo runs through a chunk of French territory including Breil-sur-Roya which is also the junction for an SNCF line to Nice. The stations in France are owned by RFF and operated by SNCF but the signalling looks to be Italian as does the architecture and more trains go down to Vintimille than to Nice and they are all Italian. The line has incredible scenery and SNCF runs the "Train des Merveilles" from Nice to Cuneo. I explored the area three years ago while staying in Nice but thanks to yet another SNCF strike had to travel via Vintimille but that's an interesting place itself. I returned to Nice from Vintimille on a long distance Italian train which was far more elegant than anything on offer from SNCF.

 

Spain/France requires a change of gauge which has led to some interesting border stations though fewer international passenger trains near the border (apart from the Talgos that change their gauge without stopping and a few trains that changed bogies) and there should be four routes that cross the border. At La Tour de Carol the international station is on the French side and is also the terminus for the metre gauge 3rd rail Cerdagne line. At Hendaye-Irun and Cerbere-Port Bou passenger trains would normally cross the border before terminating on the other side. The fourth route via Canfranc, where the international station is on the Spanish side, has been closed since an accident on the French side in 1970. Re-opening is constantly discussed and the line and its overhead is still intact but this does seem unlikely. AFAIK Spanish trains still run to Canfranc from Huesca. So far as I know this was the only one of the four Franco-Spanish crossings where only one gauge (French SG) actually crossed the frontier.

 

At Latour de Carol, the same arrangement pertained as at Port Bou. French trains would run through into Spain (returning empty) and Spanish trains would run into France (returning empty). So, as you mention, both gauges crossed the frontier.

 

Irun-Hendaye is of course even more interesting with metre-gauge as well crossing the frontier.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Going back to the top of the thread, if modelling Czech railways there are some very good artisan manufacturers in the country producing wagons and accessories. Not exported at all.

 

If modelling Czech, well worth considering 1:120 scale on 12mm track (true TT) which is well supported in Eastern Europe for both stock and building kits.

 

I'm going back a few years now, but there was a model shop quite close to the terminus station in Prague (south side?) and a kiosk on the station with models and railway books.

[Joseph_Pestell]

When I had a model railway business in France, I always made an effort to stock goods wagons (and some passenger stock) from other European railways. As others have mmentioned, these are common throughout France.

 

Did they sell? Very little. Not for nothing is the word chauvinism derived from a Frenchman.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...I've often thought about that but just how do you handle France driving on the Left and Italy driving on the Right?...

Tangentially, regarding the roads: it is still within living memory that in some Italian cities the rule was drive on the left (traditional and correct) while the general country wide rule was drive on the right (foul Code Napoleon perversion). The Italians coped with that, famously spectacularly...

[Pacific231G]

Not a big problem on that particular border as the Italian side is single-track.

 

Not a problem anyway as both French and Italian trains run on the left! The general rule seems to be that railways originally influenced directly or indirectly by British practice run on the left (Most of Western Europe, Indian sub continent, Australasia, China and Japan) while those originally based on German or American practice tend to run on the right (except apparently for the Chicago and North Western)

 

Riding on the left hand side of roads used to be the norm throughout Europe. It's supposed to have been so that people on horseback would have their sword hand, usually the right, free to either ward off any unexpected attacks or to be offered in friendship. I don't know whether the threat was more of attacks from other riders or from rufffians jumping out from the bushes but in either case there would be an advantage for a right handed person in keeping more to the left. The practice was formalised in a fourteenth century edict by Pope Benifice to pilgrims. I'd not be surprised though if the real reason had more to do with how horse drawn wagons, carts and carriages were normally driven. There is some archaeological evidence that the Romans drove their carts on the left based on sets of ruts being deeper on the left hand side coming from quarries than the corresponding ruts on the rights suggesting empty carts going in and full carts coming out.

 

According to one theory the change to travelling on the right hand side came about because in France the aristos. tended to drive their carriages with little regard for the common people on foot so simple common sense led them to use the right hand side of the road in order to face oncoming traffic. Come the revolution it was pretty unhealthy to be associated with the aristos and their horses so everyone took to travelling on the right and the practice was spread across most of Europe (but not Sweden or Britain) by Napoleon Bonaparte. The other theory is simply that Bonaparte was left handed so wielded his sword with his left hand and preferred to ride on the right, made his army do the same and again spread the practice across Europe.

 

I gather the reasons for travelling on the right hand side of roads and thence railroads in North America where you'd expect British practice to have established itself, as in the continuing American use of imperial units, has something to do with how teamsters handled the larger teams of horses used for hauling wagons over longer distances.

[D9020 Nimbus]

Other countries in Europe used to drive on the left--Austria prior to 1938, so maybe Norway prior to 1940 too, perhaps.

 

The Newcastle and Carlisle line kept to the right when first created.

[Pacific231G]

I've just found a site that seems well researched and goes into the details of who and why drive on the left and right mostly of roads in some depth.

http://brianlucas.ca/roadside/

He suggests that all the stories about horsemen with swords may be apocryphal and it was how people handled horse drawn vehicles that really set the norms.

[gridwatcher]

Not a problem anyway as both French and Italian trains run on the left! The general rule seems to be that railways originally influenced directly or indirectly by British practice run on the left (Most of Western Europe, Indian sub continent, Australasia, China and Japan) while those originally based on German or American practice tend to run on the right (except apparently for the Chicago and North Western)

 

Riding on the left hand side of roads used to be the norm throughout Europe. It's supposed to have been so that people on horseback would have their sword hand, usually the right, free to either ward off any unexpected attacks or to be offered in friendship. I don't know whether the threat was more of attacks from other riders or from rufffians jumping out from the bushes but in either case there would be an advantage for a right handed person in keeping more to the left. The practice was formalised in a fourteenth century edict by Pope Benifice to pilgrims. I'd not be surprised though if the real reason had more to do with how horse drawn wagons, carts and carriages were normally driven. There is some archaeological evidence that the Romans drove their carts on the left based on sets of ruts being deeper on the left hand side coming from quarries than the corresponding ruts on the rights suggesting empty carts going in and full carts coming out.

 

According to one theory the change to travelling on the right hand side came about because in France the aristos. tended to drive their carriages with little regard for the common people on foot so simple common sense led them to use the right hand side of the road in order to face oncoming traffic. Come the revolution it was pretty unhealthy to be associated with the aristos and their horses so everyone took to travelling on the right and the practice was spread across most of Europe (but not Sweden or Britain) by Napoleon Bonaparte. The other theory is simply that Bonaparte was left handed so wielded his sword with his left hand and preferred to ride on the right, made his army do the same and again spread the practice across Europe.

 

I gather the reasons for travelling on the right hand side of roads and thence railroads in North America where you'd expect British practice to have established itself, as in the continuing American use of imperial units, has something to do with how teamsters handled the larger teams of horses used for hauling wagons over longer distances.

 

Portugal too

[bbishop]

 

The Newcastle and Carlisle line kept to the right when first created.

 

As did the London and Greenwich Railway, until the over complex junction at Charlton was the cause of a rather nasty accident.

 

Bill

[mickey9]

Howzabout a French/Italian border layout (along the Med)?

 

I've often thought about that but just how do you handle France driving on the Left and Italy driving on the Right????

 

Could be very interesting with the architecture etc.

 

Best, Pete.

[mickey9]

Anybody interested in Italian 'trifase' (3 phase AC) the first generation electrification in northern Italy until around 1976?

The Ligurian coastal line up to the Riviera was the classic setting,very scenic.At San Remo the station was right on the promenade,in those days.Now that Rivarossi has released an E431 and E432 rod-drive 2D2 a lot is possible.Have bought one of each,but I'm hoping they'll maybe produce the smaller E554 1C1 as well,as it's ideal for a small layout.There is also a trifase version of the ALe840 EMU I think.The overhead used standard FS masts,but with a tramway style twin contact wire.

Mickey9.