Walkden Colliery lines

[roythebus]

Having been baffled by the Southern loco I remember seeing on a colliery line in the Manchester area in about 1967/68, I've just remembered the colliery name, Walkden.

 

I thought the loco was an E1, presumably the one that is currently on the ESR and going to the IWSR, but others have said that loco was always at Cannock. does anyone have any idea what the loco I saw was and what happened to it? It was rather derelict at the time, but the line was mainly run by Austerities, double headed, triple headed, banked, the lot! My photos of the time all seem to have gone over the years.

[Arthur]

An E1?, was it an 0-6-2T?, in which case it was not a Southern Loco but a North Staffordshire Railway 'New L' class. Manchester Collieries bought five off the LMS around 1930. They ran in black livery with red lining and all carried names. In 1960 the NCB loaned one to the city ohf Stoke-on-Trent which was celebrating its golden anniversary. Sent to Crewe, it was repainted in North Staffs livery as their No. 2. After te celebrations were over it returned to Walkden and retained this livery until withdrawn in the late 60's. It was the first loco I saw on the Walkden system around 1962.

 

EDIT;

 

Photo here

 

 

 

[Michael Delamar]

there is footage of it and the austerities on B&R video lancashire and yorkshire memories part 5.

 

and some nice colour shots in "colour of a lancashire triangle" by Dennis Sweeney.

[Fat Controller]

This loco is now preserved as part of the NRM's collection, and is apparently currently at Locomotion in Shildon.

[bigd]

The only Southern locomotive I am aware of was no 1600, that was used on the Haydock Pits system. That was an ex LCDR class T no 141. I arrived in 1947 and was scrapped in 1958, so cannot be your loco.

 

There was six ex North Staffordshire Railway 0-6-2s on the Bridgwater Colliery system. Princess and Sir Robert lasted until 1968.

Princess is preserved at Shildon as NSR no 2. (fat controller - you beat me to it)

 

I would be interested to know if an E1 did make it up to a north west colliery.

It would be a good excuse to run one on my Bickershaw colliery layout!

[Arthur]

There was six ex North Staffordshire Railway 0-6-2s on the Bridgwater Colliery system.

 

There were just five ex North Staffs locos, though there was a sixth, ex mainline, 0-6-2T, purchased in 1939 from a dealer, Wakes of Darlington It was a former Barry Railway, Sharp Stewart built, locomotive of 1890 which, by then, had acquired a full range of standard GWR fittings. Named William, it had run over one million miles already though it still served until 1951, latterly sporting a light green livery.

 

The North Staffs locos were;

 

Name LMS No Built Purchased Scrapped

Kenneth 2264 1921 1936 1964

Sir Robert 2262 1920 1937 1969

King George VI 2257 1913 1937 1968

Queen Elizabeth 2270 1923 1937 1951

Princess 2271 1923 1937 Preserved

 

All carried the standard Manchester Collieries livery of black lined with red. In later years most were disfigured with ill fitting chimneys after the originals wore out. Despite their 5ft drivers, large for industrial use, they were excellent performers, free steaming with a shotgun blast.

 

Princess was the locomotive repainted in North Staffs livery, though it, and Queen Elizabeth, were both actually built by the LMS. Following preservation it had a spell in storage at the Chatterley Whitfield mining museum in Stoke and later at Shugborough Hall, the Staffordshire County Musem, near Stafford. The preserved locomotive is actually a mixture of Princess and Sir Robert.

 

 

 

 

[roythebus]

I'm almost certain the loco I saw was a Southern engine. I visited the shed with John Glover (the photographer and railway author)and ADK "Jock Young, both from the MRC at the time. My memory is a bit faded now, but we took some pics of CLC steam as well, and trip on a double deck bus that took a wrong turning on the East Lancs Road! We ended up in a mad car chase following said triple header with some local enthusiasts before returning to Manchester for the railway exhibition.

[Arthur]

If what you saw was Southern then it certainly didn't work on the Walkden system. However, Walkden was one of the Central Workshops for the NCBs North Western division, repairing locomotives from all over the area, so it's possible that what you saw was something from elsewhere in for repair.

What, and from where, I couldn't say.

[Michael Delamar]

question from me for anyone who has watched b&r video vol 5, the last scene of the austerities running on a single track alongside a row of houses, one hauling one banking on a single track, ive tried to pinpoint the location with no avail can anyone with more local knowledge?

[PGH]

The Southern E1 going from the East Somerset to the Isle of Wight is an ex NCB loco from Cannock.

Built at Brighton in 1877 it was sold by the Southern Railway (as their No.B110) to the Cannock & Rugeley Colliery Co.Ltd. in 1927 where it became their No.9 CANNOCK WOOD. It was acquired by the Railway Preservation Society (which later became the Chasewater Light Railway) in 1963 and was stored in the Cannock area until it went to the East Somerset Railway in 1978.

 

 

As bigd says, the only ex Southern loco on the Lancs NCB was 1600 at Haydock

 

re - the B&R video, I don't have the video but I think I've seen it and know somebody who has it. I'm sure it was taken on the Walkden system and if I can lay my hands on the video I should be able to identify the location.

[Arthur]

question from me for anyone who has watched b&r video vol 5, the last scene of the austerities running on a single track alongside a row of houses, one hauling one banking on a single track, ive tried to pinpoint the location with no avail can anyone with more local knowledge?

 

Michael,

 

There was a general climb northbound from the basin on the Bridgwater canal at Boothstown up through to Ashton's Field, north of the Walkden workshops.

The part featured in the video might very possibly be the steep bank just north of Walkden Yard. The line passed under the A6 road and then climbed very steeply, partly in a cutting, up to Ashton's Field. As the line progressed away from the A6 there were houses either side, barely fenced off. Trains of up to 8 wagons were single handed by the austerities, anything more had a banker.

 

Here's a link to Google Maps,

 

http://goo.gl/maps/2Kwnv

 

If you zoom in to the area just to the west of the marked A, you'll see Campbell Way looping off and running under the A6, it passes under the A6 using the old railway bridge and track bed. If you pick up Ashton Field Drive running north west, that is essentially the route of the railway. Most of the housing either side was there in the 60s and 70s.

 

If PGH can view the video, I'm sure he'll give a definitive location.

[PGH]

question from me for anyone who has watched b&r video vol 5, the last scene of the austerities running on a single track alongside a row of houses, one hauling one banking on a single track, ive tried to pinpoint the location with no avail can anyone with more local knowledge?

 

 

 

I have not been able to get my hands on the actual video, but if it’s the one I’m thinking about the section on the Walkden system starts with WASP in August 1964 and finishes with WARRIOR heading a train and RESPITE banking. If I’m correct this may answer your query, if not it won’t !

 

The last clip was filmed on the curve at Boothsbank, where the line from Astley Green turns from roughly an easterly direction following the Bridgewater Canal to a roughly northerly direction towards Mosley Common Colliery. The sidings leading off bottom left are to the Canal Tip, where wagons were end tipped into canal barges. Just beyond the trees at the end of the clip the train is passing under the overbridge carrying the A572 Leigh Road over the line.

 

However this clip has no row of houses in evidence, the one with houses is rather earlier in the video. This was taken on the section mentioned by Arthur, i.e. between Walkden Yard and Ashtons Field, north of the A6 overbridge. There is a footbridge over the line visible at the start of the clip, and there were two on this section, I think the one seen is the southerly of the two as above the next footbridge the power lines had crossed over to the east side of the line rather than on the west side as shown in the video. If you follow Arthur's Google map link, the footbridge in question was in line with Brackley Street.

 

Let me know if this answers your query, if we are not talking about the same video I might have to buy the right one to see what I’m missing !

[Michael Delamar]

your spot on PGH

[Michael Delamar]

 

The last clip was filmed on the curve at Boothsbank, where the line from Astley Green turns from roughly an easterly direction following the Bridgewater Canal to a roughly northerly direction towards Mosley Common Colliery. The sidings leading off bottom left are to the Canal Tip, where wagons were end tipped into canal barges. Just beyond the trees at the end of the clip the train is passing under the overbridge carrying the A572 Leigh Road over the line.

 

 

looking on google earth, is the curve now booth's hall way?

[Michael Delamar]

the section Arthur mentioned is just north of this map?

 

 

and one of Mosley common colliery.

[Arthur]

Michael,

 

The answer to all your questions is yes! Booths Hall Way is roughly where the curve was and Bridgewater Marina the coaling basin where the tippler was, gotta say, my memories are rather more sunken hulks and rusting machinery then 'marina'. Scroll down this link and there's a photo of the tippler, it was still there in 1970, not sure when it was demolished.

 

http://freespace.virgin.net/tony.smith/mining.htm

 

On the map, yes, the steep incline starts just north of it, as the lines run under Manchester Road, the A6.

 

Moseley Common was extensively modernised by the NCB, it was one of the largest pits in Europe by 1960 but had a bit of a chequered industrial relations history and closed in 1968. This is looking north from the East Lancs overbridge.

 

[Michael Delamar]

thanks Arthur, just watched the video again, the steep stretch north of the Manchester road had quite distinctive "A" framed telegraph poles.

 

thank you ive often tried to pinpoint the locations using google earth etc,can see now the railway has been so obliterated which is why I could never trace it

 

cheers

 

Mike,

[Michael Delamar]

There is a footbridge over the line visible at the start of the clip, and there were two on this section, I think the one seen is the southerly of the two as above the next footbridge the power lines had crossed over to the east side of the line rather than on the west side as shown in the video. If you follow Arthur's Google map link, the footbridge in question was in line with Brackley Street.

 

I can see it now, between Brackley street and Ridyard st, and further up at the end of ashtonfield drive the footpaths are still there. no trace of the railway as it looks like the houses have extended their back gardens on to it.

 

only other question is where exactly northwards was the line heading to?

[Arthur]

Pleased that PGH was able to provide a definitive location.

 

South of the East Lancs the railway ran through a scrubby, semi rural, landscape with open fields from Boothsbank all the way to Astley Green. Nearly all of the housing built around Moseley Common and down to Boothsbank was not there when the railway was working.

 

Nice photo here of Warrior on the Ashtons Field bank, with the the A telegraph poles.

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10f/5734414391/

 

Another section where banking was used was the exit from Astley Green colliery, south, onto the Moss. Trains ran westwards out of the colliery yard climbing a curved bank, taking them south over the Bridgewater canal and out onto the exchange sidings with the Man. Exchange-Lime Street mainline out on the Moss.

 

In 1970 I had a footplate ride on Respite with 58, loaded, 16t minerals, banked by Stanley and Harry, all running bunker first, on this duty. We almost came to grief when some clown driving a small lorry, laden with wooden produce crates, decided he could clear an occupation crossing before we arrived. He got the rear axle stuck between the running rails and just reversed it off as we swept by. The language in the cab was hotter than the firebox.

 

Not a great photo, but here we are returning light engine to Astley Green yard,

 

 

Arthur

[Arthur]

When we visited the system we'd have our sandwiches in a small control room within that tippler. Excellent photos PGH, do you have enough to start a thread? Did you photograph much of the system around Linneyshaw and Worsley?

 

Where did it go north of Walkden? (Pronounced by some locally as, Wogdin)

Well, it was a huge system, much of it working well into the 1960s and north of Walkden was the most intensive part of it. From Walkden Yard , the bank (1 in 24 by the way) led to Ashtons Field, once a colliery. Here it made a trailing connection with a line coming in from the South East.

This line quickly divided, one branch went out south east across Linneyshaw Moss and there was an exchange siding linked with the former L&Y Manchester-Bolton line by a short branch line at Kearsley . (The only photo of this bit I’ve ever seen is on page 77 of Bob Pixton’s Liverpool & Manchester 3: Lancashire & Yorkshire Lines).

The colliery lines continued on, to Linneyshaw colliery, where a branch headed eastwards to serve Clifton Moss Collliery.

The main line from Linneyshaw carried on south serving Sandhole colliery, then under the East Lancs, through Roe Green where there were exchange sidings with the LNW at Sandersons sidings on the Eccles-Tyldesley line, just west of Worsley station. This leg terminated at another coal tippler on the Bridgewater canal at Worsley.

 

The other branch from Ashtons Field headed north west from Ashtons Field, curling round it crossed the LNW line south of Plodder Lane and went on to serve Brackley Colliery. It would have crossed the M61 but I’m not sure it was still in use when that was built.

 

Without counting, the entire system had a about 6 sets of exchange sidings, several landsale yards, three canal tipplers and served, at various times, 10 or so collieries.

 

Most of this is now lost under housing and the extensive motorway interchange at Worsley.

 

[Michael Delamar]

thanks Arthur, there is a map in the back of "a colour of a lancashire triangle" by DJ Sweeney but its a bit low res but I can make out the areas you mention on the map.

[Michael Delamar]

PGH, your shot of

This is a view from the rail entrance to the tip building, with full sidings to left and empty sidings to right

 

just been trying to get my bearings on this shot, so its looking south, I can see the East lancs bridge on Google earth, Im guessing the houses on the left are Queen anne drive or there abouts, I cant see the houses on the right however

[PGH]

PGH, your shot of

 

 

just been trying to get my bearings on this shot, so its looking south, I can see the East lancs bridge on Google earth, Im guessing the houses on the left are Queen anne drive or there abouts, I cant see the houses on the right however

 

No, you're a long way off !

If you look for the marina basin at Boothstown, at the bend in the Bridgewater Canal, the marina basin is the former coal tip basin and the coal tip itself was situated approximately midway on the north side (i.e. furthest from the canal). The view from the entrance to the tip is looking north at or near the present day junction of Waterdale Close and Quayside Close. The overbridge in the distance is for the A572 road and in the far distance you can see the chimney of Mosley Common Colliery.

Hope this helps.

[Michael Delamar]

ahh right, ive got you now, so the houses on the right are on Hilton cresent and one house visible is on Booksbank ave.

 

houses to the left are on Booths hall grove

[Arthur]

This should help Michael, the photo was taken from where Bridgewater Marina is situated, looking north along Booths Hall Way towards Leigh Road.

 

http://goo.gl/maps/R4FaY

 

There are a lot more houses in the area now, than there were then.