Using a brick garage as a model room

[wasdavetheroad]

Could you alter the garden wall so a pair of outward opening doors could replace the up and over door.  It should be straightforward to apply plenty of insulation to the inside of the doors. Maybe even a pair of doors with different widths so no intrusion onto the pavement.

 

Being cavity walled (insulated) brick built security will be less of a problem once the doors and windows are secured.

 

Have the side windows narrow depth placed high on the wall with security bars?

 

A cheaper option to underfloor heating could be a combination of fan heaters/ tubular radiators mounted high on the rear end wall. with good insulation you will be surprised how few watts you need. My insulated room  uses a fan heater which at the 1Kw setting can keep the inside temperature 16C above the outside ambient level.  The winter temperature is set at below 10C and I blast the temperature up to +18C using a second fan heater if needed.

[sjp23480]

On 11/09/2012 at 18:21, woodenhead said:

 

What I am hearing is - insulation - a modest lining will make a big difference, the up and over door will need something do to insulate as well, put in a false ceiling to cut out dust from above, paint the floor (or put in a wooden one) and maybe a partition.

That's pretty much what I did to my tandem garage, with a laminate floor with a DPM and insulation underneath.  Had to paint the wall that adjoins the house to cut down the dust and installed a new, double glazed/opaque double glazed access door.  It has worked quite well,my one regret was not replacing the up and over door with a roller shutter type.  The current door is not well installed by the builders and is almost impossible to seal to keep out the elements, dead leaves and the like. 

Good luck,

Stephen

Edited January 1, 2021 by sjp23480
Typo

[sjp23480]

The other option is to leave the ceiling open and insulate and board the rafters, this will allow you to install skylights in the roof.  I didn't do this as my garage is on a north facing wall and shaded by the house.  so overheating has never been a problem, but it can get pretty cold in the winter and the lower level of the insulated ceiling helps protect against the worst of the cold. 

 

Another consideration, if you are buying a new build, I believe that you don't pay VAT if the work is done before you complete your purchase and if the builder (or their subbies) are amenable you may be able to get the work done at very reasonable cost?

 

Stephen

[hayfield]

 

As for the garage doors are concerned you seem to have 2 issues, The first being security, the second heat loss. On both counts I do not believe standard garage doors would fit the bill.

 

I believe 2 side hung doors would be preferable, with frames built to external door specifications in both strength and thermal efficiency. The doors themselves need to be both substantial for security plus thermally efficient. Making the doors secure with bolts etc is the easy part

[ITG]

we inherited a conservatory with underfloor electric heating when we moved about 3 years ago, and, based on our experience, I wouldn’t rely on that form of heating to heat a garage, unless floor, walls and ceiling are incredibly well insulated. We find we never use it in the conservatory, as it has so little impact on temperature. Yes, I know glass is a terrible insulator, but! In fact we’ve added a 2kw wall connector heater but it’s not cheap to run continuously.

Thankfully I have been able to utilise what was my study (3.5 x 2m) as my railway room, so don’t have to suffer temperature variations.

[hayfield]

14 minutes ago, ITG said:

we inherited a conservatory with underfloor electric heating when we moved about 3 years ago, and, based on our experience, I wouldn’t rely on that form of heating to heat a garage, unless floor, walls and ceiling are incredibly well insulated. We find we never use it in the conservatory, as it has so little impact on temperature. Yes, I know glass is a terrible insulator, but! In fact we’ve added a 2kw wall connector heater but it’s not cheap to run continuously.

Thankfully I have been able to utilise what was my study (3.5 x 2m) as my railway room, so don’t have to suffer temperature variations.

 

 

Agree with you by the amount of glass being a heat sink, our family room where about 1/2 to 2/3rds is glass is colder than the front room where glass accounts to less than a 1/4 of the outside wall, thankfully not unbearably different and also we may be a little light on radiators verses the other room, something we thought might be an issue, again not big enough for action

 

If your room is built to modern thermal standards heat loss or gain will be much less of an issue than a garage. Are you thinking of connecting it to your central heating ? 

[doilum]

1 hour ago, sjp23480 said:

That's pretty much what I did to my tandem garage, with a laminate floor with a DPM and insulation underneath.  Had to paint the wall that adjoins the house to cut down the dust and installed a new, double glazed/opaque double glazed access door.  It has worked quite well,my one regret was not replacing the up and over door with a roller shutter type.  The current door is not well installed by the builders and is almost impossible to seal to keep out the elements, dead leaves and the like. 

Good luck,

Stephen

Short term solution. A six foot draught excluder ( rolled up length of carpet et etc) stuffed behind the door makes an amazing difference for zero cost.

[njee20]

In the last house I sealed the floor and put down carpet tiles, stuck some insulated plasterboard on the walls and put in a false ceiling with some loft insulation above. All helped, it stayed appreciably warmer in winter and cooler in summer, and no damp issues. I just put some of that self adhesive foam strip around the up and over door (which I never used admittedly). Definitely helped with heat loss. 
 

Now moved house and have a double length garage so plan to put a partition wall halfway along and do much the same! It was certainly far more equable than an uninsulated loft. 

Edited January 1, 2021 by njee20

[sjp23480]

26 minutes ago, doilum said:

Short term solution. A six foot draught excluder ( rolled up length of carpet et etc) stuffed behind the door makes an amazing difference for zero cost.

Doilum,

 

You are spot on, it does.  Unfortunately when the builders put the door in they didn't line up the frame properly, warping it in the process. As a result the door doesn't sit properly when closed leaving a draughty gap above the hinge on one side. Ho hum!

[cctransuk]

On 09/09/2012 at 01:40, woodenhead said:

Second option, the house is new build and has a brick garage attached to the side, with tiled roof, brick walls and an up and over door, there is no direct access to the house or other doors only the up and over.

 

We wont be using the garage for cars as brilliantly the house also has space for two cars in the drive and the garage will be for storage.

 

My builder is about to start work this coming Monday on just such a project - though the garage does have a window in the end opposite to the up-and-over, and a side door.

 

The up-and-over will be sealed; all the walls and the up-and-over will have self-supporting inner frames; (ie. no fixings to the single course brickwork); filled with foil-faced insulation and have an interior face of plasterboard. The timber window frame / window and the side door will be replaced with uPVC; and a floating floor will be installed. A proper ceiling with downlighting will be provided.

 

The two long sides will have kitchen cabinets with four drawers each, with a gap on each side for knee-holes when sitting. The drawers will be used for stock and DIY tool storage.

 

The two long sides will also have wall unit cupboards with LED lighting beneath. These will be used for storage of household paint tins, DIY materials, etc.

 

The two end walls will have fabricated frames and cupboard doors to match the kitchen cabinets - these spaces to be used for storage of large items such as garden chairs, etc.

 

In place or the usual worktops, the builder will fabricate and install baseboards; (10 No.); each hinged to the wall and capable of being secured in a vertical position, below the wall units, to allow easy access for wiring, etc. There will be a hinged lifting board across the side door.

 

The walls and ceiling will be plastered and painted; the floor will have heavy duty vinyl laid.

 

All this is NOT cheap - but as this will be my first, and last, permanent layout in sixty years of modelling, my wife has generously agreed to the not inconsiderable expenditure. On the positive side, the garage is too small for modern cars but, once converted, it can be advertised in any future house sale as a hobby room / home office / home gym, etc.

 

Exciting times!!

 

John Isherwood.

[RobinofLoxley]

1 hour ago, sjp23480 said:

Doilum,

 

You are spot on, it does.  Unfortunately when the builders put the door in they didn't line up the frame properly, warping it in the process. As a result the door doesn't sit properly when closed leaving a draughty gap above the hinge on one side. Ho hum!

You can get draught excluder fixings for gaps like that. Dont ask me where....

 

Back to the OP (4 hours ago not 8 years), you dont tell us how much of the garage space the layout takes up, sounds as if it must be free standing. In which case it might be possible to have two sets of garage doors - the outer set have to be centre opening which wouldnt be great for security, but inside it might be possible to have a second set that opens inwards. Depend show often the car has to go inside as to what degree of fitting of the inner doors would be appropriate. 

[Sir TophamHatt]

Wow, 8 years later...

@woodenhead - how did it all go?

 

I was going to suggest looking at recent videos from @NewJunction where Richard seals his garage and plans what he's going to do but I guess after so long, you've already done it?

Would be great to see some pics.

[woodenhead]

Just as an update to what happened since 2012 when I posed the question.

 

We filled up the garage with:

• A plastic 8x6 shed in bits
• empty cardboard boxes
• old table
• old chairs
• paint
• tools
• old garden furniture
• old mattress
• old carpets
• several bikes
• old toys
• other assorted old furniture
• gardening stuff
• ladders (several of)
• more suitcases than a flight to Tenerife would carry
• assorted rubbish that should have been on the tip

And so it went on for 8 years, more and more stuff that might be useful going into the garage until you couldn't actually get into the garage.

 

Then the pandemic lockdown number one happened and the gyms shut - Mrs Woodenhead went into meltdown as she lived for the gym.  She began doing high impact exercise in our first floor lounge - very quickly I was able to convince her the time had come to tackle our hoarding and the garage.  By early summer, I had hollowed out much of the content of the garage, enough so that we could install rubber matting for her to workout on and now the neighbours get a regular dose of her flinging herself about to heavy beating music.

 

The garage will never be a railway room, it is a home gym now, I lost, but I have had two indoor railway rooms in this period and my railway now resides safely on the 2nd floor of the house.

 

What of the shed in the garage I hear you ask, well it is still there waiting to be reconstructed, maybe next summer we will get the garden done and I can put it up and remove the last junk from the garage into the shed.

[woodenhead]

11 minutes ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

Wow, 8 years later...

@woodenhead - how did it all go?

 

I was going to suggest looking at recent videos from @NewJunction where Richard seals his garage and plans what he's going to do but I guess after so long, you've already done it?

Would be great to see some pics.

How bizarre you just asked as I was typing....

 

New Junction, yes I remember the video - I will be probably using his technique on the walls when completing the wife's gym.

Edited January 1, 2021 by woodenhead

[doilum]

2 hours ago, sjp23480 said:

Doilum,

 

You are spot on, it does.  Unfortunately when the builders put the door in they didn't line up the frame properly, warping it in the process. As a result the door doesn't sit properly when closed leaving a draughty gap above the hinge on one side. Ho hum!

My brother had a bespoke window / wheelchair width door unit made and converted the garage into his main entrance thus being able to brick up an awkward side door. Probably wasn't cheap but made a huge difference.  The extra wide door was to future proof the house but would be perfect for moving a railway in and out!

[DCB]

2 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

My builder is about to start work this coming Monday on just such a project - though the garage does have a window in the end opposite to the up-and-over, and a side door.

Exciting times!!

 

John Isherwood.

Looks good but not sure about the track layout, some awkward curves onto the lift out section and an operational pinch point by the loco depot jump out at me...  maybe consult @Harlequin curves onto the lift out and a pinch point on the outer circuit jump out at me...

[cctransuk]

2 minutes ago, DavidCBroad said:

Looks good but not sure about the track layout, some awkward curves onto the lift out section and an operational pinch point by the loco depot jump out at me...  maybe consult @Harlequin curves onto the lift out and a pinch point on the outer circuit jump out at me...

 

Not sure what you mean by a pinch point.

 

The track plan is closely based on Evercreech Junction; albeit concentrating on the section between the junction and the station.

 

The curves onto the lift out are inevitable, given the location of the side door.

 

John Isherwood.

[DCB]

16 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Not sure what you mean by a pinch point.

 

The track plan is closely based on Evercreech Junction; albeit concentrating on the section between the junction and the station.

 

The curves onto the lift out are inevitable, given the location of the side door.

 

John Isherwood.

I see it now. You moved the turntable from the south of the main line to the north and reversed the mainline curve.  Turntable in the corner makes it awkward to get pilot locos from the outer line turned and back to the centre road to await arrivals on the inner line. if you're doing Summer Saturdays on the S&D. 

[cctransuk]

26 minutes ago, DavidCBroad said:

I see it now. You moved the turntable from the south of the main line to the north and reversed the mainline curve.  Turntable in the corner makes it awkward to get pilot locos from the outer line turned and back to the centre road to await arrivals on the inner line. if you're doing Summer Saturdays on the S&D. 

 

Indeed; it'll be a challenge - but there were bound to be some penalties when I abandoned my plans for a whole loft, near-scale rendition of Evercreech Jct. for something that would got in the garage.I

 

John Isherwood.