RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted September 21, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 21, 2012 D1023? York? Railtour? Problem solved. Or D1025 on car flats! Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Regarding the myth about 'the black one'.... no-one has so far come up with any proof that a single Western was ever painted black, The only references I've ever seen of it were brief notes in Modern Railways in the Motive Power Miscellany section: April 1962 "According to one correspondent, further experimental liveries, including black and light green, are to be applied to Nos. D1002-4." Given one of the contemporary Falcon's colours was the Hymek/Deltic skirt green that would look like a possible candidate for the light green. That issue was published on 27th March 1962. May 1962 "a correspondent who visited Swindon Works at the end of March noted that No.D1003 was then in dark grey undercoat, which implied that yet another colour scheme was to be tried on this unit." It goes on to mention that bodies up to D1012 were visible (so that rules out mistaking D1015 for one of the early experiments). June 1962 "No.D1003 is named Western Pioneer...; like No.D1002, these two (referring to D1004 too) are in standard green livery with red-backed nameplates and it would appear that styling experiments on this class have been brought to an end." Didn't stop me painting a Lima one black though! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1030western musketeer Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I believe the black livery debate was highlighted in a report in a western magazine some time ago. I also believe once under pete watermans ownership D1048 was to carry this livery but we know the rest. richard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernelectric Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Anyone know when the BR Blue version of this loco is going to be released? Also, has anyone who bought one of these Westerns at Swindon last weekend able to comment on what they think of the loco running on their layout? How does it compare to the Heljan Westerns? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted September 22, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 22, 2012 Anyone know when the BR Blue version of this loco is going to be released? Also, has anyone who bought one of these Westerns at Swindon last weekend able to comment on what they think of the loco running on their layout? How does it compare to the Heljan Westerns? They are not yet released so no comments available on performance - but Dapol Dave keeps smiling when you ask him about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernelectric Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 They are not yet released so no comments available on performance - but Dapol Dave keeps smiling when you ask him about it. Ah...yes, sorry I thought that D1000 was on sale at the Swindon event last weekend and people were buying them, of course that is true but they were pre-release purchases. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Regarding the mythical black Western, if it ever existed, i doubt they would have painted the whole loco, just maybe one side and one end for a three-quarter image, with maybe red nameplates, just to see how it looked as a test? This can be backed up by the different test ends on Western Champion in golden ochre, a regular panel at one end, a 'T' shaped panel at the other, which of course, only appeared briefly and not in traffic. The idea of a part-painted livery during an assessment period also occurred during the 1948 livery trials, some of the locos only had lining on one side. If Swindon was busy building Westerns and the Western Region were desperate to use them, i can't believe they could afford the luxury of more than one loco being held back for choosing pretty colours. So maybe Western Champion was the guinea pig for trying the black on, before the golden ochre? Being a widespread loco colour, black would always be an option, and of course everything looks good in black, but i worry it may have been perceived as mundane, being the livery of choice for shunters and freight locos. I never understood the reasoning behind D1000 in desert sand, was it to highlight a new design or provide a blank canvas for future colours, it always looked like glorified and tinted works primer to me? Cheers, Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 If the myth does derive from those reports in Modern Railways (does anyone have any other documented evidence?), then it is too early for it to be be Champion, as it wasn't even a completed bodyshell at that date (as reported, only up to D1012 were 'complete' shells). Indeed it was very specific about the unusual undercoat being on D1003. Personally I suspect the idea was dropped before it was top coated, but who now knows? Shunters were being turned out in green for some years before 1962, though there would still have been a lot in black, of course as black had been the standard colour for both electric and diesel locos (and gas turbines!) in earlier years, though the majority of diesels were shunters but there was never a 'standard' livery especially for shunters per se. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Hi Bernie, thanks for the info. Regarding the black livery, i was really thinking about dirty steam choo-choos, an image they would have been trying to get away from. A further thought on D1000 in "Desert Sand" - to me it always looked akin to Desert Panzer Division colours, perhaps paying homage to the German designed engines and transmissions inside, bearing-in-mind that a Tiger tank also had a Maybach engine? :-) And what was going to run behind the loco, desert sand coaches? Yuck! Joking apart, i think the new Dapol model looks smashing, and captures "the look" very nicely, well done the designers. Cheers, Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium steam-driven boy Posted September 22, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 22, 2012 Hi, Brian Haresnape states in his British Rail Fleet Survey on D-H's that drawings were ...prepared to show alternative liveries as follows: desert sand, turquoise blue; geranium red; black and silver and (at the BTC's request) maroon. with no suggestion that black was applied, he was involved as he suggested the golden ochre livery. Regards, Gerry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 The Golden Ochre colour tried out on D1015 in January '63 was originally panned for D1014, but time was getting on and it went into traffic on Christmas Eve '62 in maroon with small yellow panels instead, hence why D1015 received it in the New Year. Holding a loco back for more time than was absolutely neccessary was something Swindon management (and no doubt the operating departments) wanted to avoid as much as possible, as even before D1000's main tubes were laid down in A Shop the programme was already behind schedule.... if things had gone according to the orignal plan, Enterprise would probably have entered service just in time for the 1961 Summer timetable but alas it wasn't ready until 20th December. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dch05 Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Oh yes!!! So the 28/38XX really is on the way! Despite the odd comment elsewhere, I must now rush off and increase my order from 2 to 3. If this loco runs as well as the Hall, I can see serious shifting to Dapol as the only serious GWR N manufacturer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 D1000_Chester_12-6-62 by robertcwp, on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Oh yes!!! So the 28/38XX really is on the way! Despite the odd comment elsewhere, I must now rush off and increase my order from 2 to 3. If this loco runs as well as the Hall, I can see serious shifting to Dapol as the only serious GWR N manufacturer. I agree. With tender drives for both 3500 gallon churchward tender and 4000 gallon collett tender, they can produce pretty much any locomotive built by the GWR from the 20s onwards. Both manufacturers seem to be having a dabble with the LNER, SR and BR standards while Farish seem to have a bit of a monopoly on the LMS. By that reasoning, I hope we get to see some Hawksworth coaches from Dapol to follow the Maunsells. Then a Castle and Mogul would be nice and maybe even a big 4700. Sorry, drifting off onto WL territory there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gary H Posted November 24, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 24, 2012 Another 'Wow' from me - would love a western to plonk on laira in time for scaleforum . Now , about scaling up the class 50..... Jon Im so glad its not just me then and didnt like to say anything! I so so wish someone would make a 50 with the right "face". The closest so far is the latest 0 gauge kit from you know who, but its still not right. That western looks bang-on. Has to be about the most acurate diesel in 00 to date! Well done Dapol. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted November 24, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 24, 2012 Has to be about the most acurate diesel in 00 to date! So it should with all the input from our knowledgeable membership ..... Well done Dapol. And to all those here who have materially helped the project along. The loco itself looks spot on as others have said. The Kernow weathered ones also look to be the best RtR weathered locos we have yet seen and that takes account of the superb job the same partnership turned out with the 22s Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Just seen a couple of these on the Dapol stand at Warley. VERY nice...... Now to make up an excuse for one! Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon020 Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Now to make up an excuse for one! Why do you need an excuse? I still can't find a real reason other than it looks a beauty... and that was good enough for me to pre-order. Go on... you know you want to. Sorry I missed out on a catch up today... but the pills are helping. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
clentoc Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 I got to handle D1000 on the Steam museum stand at Warley - just superb ! Couldn't resist and ordered one :-). They only have 72 left. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Late to the thread (only just discovered this news section..) comparing the side on cab shot Andy has taken with plate 11 in "The Power of the Westerns" shows just how good this model is. If Andy's shot was in black and white it'd be really tricky to tell them apart. I can't afford a Steam one atm but green and maroon ones will follow in due course along with some P4 wheels. The Western has been a great project and I really hope Dapol do well out of their time invested in it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MikeParkin65 Posted November 25, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2012 Beautiful looking models. The only slight criticism I have is that the central windscreen 'pillar' looks a little thick when viewed from a 3 quarter angle - I think it is the actual thickness of the glazing that causes it. I isn't a big issue. The only other issue I would have is the the shade of maroon which is a little pinker than I would like. This affected both the Lord and Butler ltd ed and the two on the Dapol stand. The desert sand, green and BR blue look spot on. I'd have the STEAM Western Enterprise but I can't afford it so I'll probably go for a green one! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy P Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 I got to handle D1000 on the Steam museum stand at Warley - just superb ! Couldn't resist and ordered one :-). They only have 72 left. Thank you for posting this info. I had somehow convinced myself that I'd missed out but having read that they were possibly still available I contacted the Museum and received this reply. "Thank you, I have placed your name on the reserve list and will contact when stocks arrive, predicted to be prior to Christmas Geoff Davies" That's how to bring cheer to a miserable Monday. I'll work out how to afford it after I've got it! It's what I usually do. Thanks again Clentoc! RP Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 I missed the boat too Terry but it's possible Steam could do other variations of the livery in due course. It's not dave's fault as that's the quantity that Steam committed to. I'm sure they could have sold more on the back of the quality of the product on release but they did invest a substantial amount for that 400. STEAM was still taking orders at Warley on Saturday. CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapolDave Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Down to 30 left by mid afternoon on Sunday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 26, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 26, 2012 STEAM was still taking orders at Warley on Saturday. CHRIS LEIGH See posts 723, 73, & 75 Chris - Andy was referring to an earlier problem with the 'Steam' website which was implying that they had all gone (back in September) when in fact they hadn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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