eetype3 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Hello again, I'm working on building a Class 116 3-car DMU in 00, based on the Lima 117 (example obtained from last year's Warley show). Chopping one DMBS into a DMS is no problem - donor already obtained! - but it looks like the centre car will be a bit more of a challenge. Does anyone know where I can get hold of 4mm-scale drawings of both sides of a Class 116 centre car please? Failing that, maybe good side-elevation photos of both sides? Any info greatly appreciated, as always - thanks folks! Incidentally, if you're attempting a similar chop, fitting replacement Hornby (Class 110) bogie sideframes is well worth the effort and a huge uplift for the unit's appearance; Jim S-W details how to undertake this on his "P4 New Street" forum thread. Couple that with replacement Ultrascale wheels and home-made phosphor-bronze pickups for the "dead" wheels, and things improve quite quickly Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSB Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 'A Pictorial Record of British Railways Diesel Multiple Units' by Brian Golding (Cheona Publications) Chapter 10. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted September 18, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 18, 2012 Actually I think this will be a nightmare, I have a couple of sets sitting there for some form of conversion. My current sets are B465 118 (blue), B435 117 (blue grey), B430 117 (GWR), 2 sets and 2 spare trailers for other jobs. 116 is a definate the other no idea, possibly a Cardiff 116 or another Tyseley one. Now take a couple of trailers, the odd single or double window no issue just chop and change - you can do the 115 and 127 toilet cars OK. Now line up against the toilet compartment, yes the toilet is smaller than a bay.about 6mm or so AFAIR. So the standard cut and join will not work here sadly. I am looking at etched sides unless there is an easy way to cut every bay down by 1/2mm without making a mess, deduct the cost of the DMS conversion and it seems quite acceptable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37114 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Geoff Endacott is also building a 116 centre car and has come up against the toilet length issue, believe the last discussion we had was he was intending to lengthen the chassis and remake the footsteps in the right place. I would imagine Heljan/Bachmann/Dapol will produce one in the next couple of years so would be wary of investing lots of money in etched sides unless the payback is over a very small number of units. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted September 19, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 19, 2012 Geoff Endacott is also building a 116 centre car and has come up against the toilet length issue, believe the last discussion we had was he was intending to lengthen the chassis and remake the footsteps in the right place. I would imagine Heljan/Bachmann/Dapol will produce one in the next couple of years so would be wary of investing lots of money in etched sides unless the payback is over a very small number of units. I might try this, I have been quoted mid 20s for a set of sides Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted September 21, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 21, 2012 I have (well theoretically at least since I can't find it at present) a little booklet self published by a Don Roberts of New Zealand. It consists IIRC of about 40 pages of sketches showing various plans etc of cutting guides for the Lima Class 117 & Hornby Class 110, to make other vehicles from these donors, mostly by cut & shut methods. The sketches as I remember, showed the basic side elevation & cab changes required, also the different underfloor arrangements for many different vehicles. Title is 'Diesel Multiple Units Modifications', by Don Roberts & published in 1989, is all I can tell you. There is no ISBN. Sorry, I can't find at present, but will keep looking. Sorry for the tempting information, with nothing to back it up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 It can be done as a cut and shut. The results, as Rob mentions, are on the workbench at the moment. I will try to get some photos done in due course. Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted September 22, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 22, 2012 As I have 2 power cars, 2 useless cars and 3 trailers and want a couple of 116s I'm up for it Need two more of the resin side kits for the DMS. Got 2x117, 1x118, 2x101,1x110, 1x128 want 2x116, 1x119, 1x120 most Then 108, 121, 123, 100, another 101 My 117s are B/G and GWR, 118 is Blue, 101s both blue, 1 is TBSL with 2 DMCLs, yes I am covering a 3 to 4 or so year period. For a long time I thought all the Tysely 116s had WTL written on them! I have (well theoretically at least since I can't find it at present) a little booklet self published by a Don Roberts of New Zealand. It consists IIRC of about 40 pages of sketches showing various plans etc of cutting guides for the Lima Class 117 & Hornby Class 110, to make other vehicles from these donors, mostly by cut & shut methods. The sketches as I remember, showed the basic side elevation & cab changes required, also the different underfloor arrangements for many different vehicles. Title is 'Diesel Multiple Units Modifications', by Don Roberts & published in 1989, is all I can tell you. There is no ISBN. Sorry, I can't find at present, but will keep looking. Sorry for the tempting information, with nothing to back it up. And a search brings back......... This page Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eetype3 Posted September 22, 2012 Author Share Posted September 22, 2012 Cheers for all the replies folks - looks like the centre car will be a bit of a doxy! Still, who dares wins and all that - let's face it, with the DC Kits DMS conversion kit (or a few of 'em) and a couple of spare trailers, I'm going to be able to get somewhere close enough to satisfy my warped sensibilities... Incidentally I've found a photo (taken in 1982 I think) of one of Tyseley's scratch sets covering for a failed 116 on the Cross City Line - it consisted of a pair of Class 100 motor cars in plain Rail Blue and a Class 101 centre car in "Refurbished" white with rail blue stripe. I'll post the Class 100 unit numbers if I can find the pic again, but the 101 centre car's identity isn't quoted. Think I might have to do that one too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted September 22, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 22, 2012 Well I have done the measuring, but I need a new razor saw and a mitre box. I will do the following Remove all door handles and grab handles from 2 power cars and 2 trailers DMS and headcodes Trailer will be a cut and shut, will be 5mm (15 inches) longer, will also need all roof ribs removed off all four vehicles. Will be enough to do two trailers so will do two 116s. Will take 6 segments to do the body 5 off one and 1 off donor, floor will be cut and shut as well. I will scan a body later and mark up the segments Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted September 22, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 22, 2012 Hi All While sending copies of my DMU diagrams to Jim I remembered I lent my diagrams to the Barrowmore club. Diagrams 555 and 600 are the centre cars for the 116. http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/BRDMUIssue.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted September 23, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 23, 2012 Go to 601 and see the error in the Lima model, toilet compartment is too small. I will do a cut and shut in paint and see what happens Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted September 23, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 23, 2012 Well the Lima compartments are about 0.6mm too wide, just under 2mm over 3 compartments, this adds up to roughly 6mm, the toilet is 5mm too narrow. So there is the issue! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted September 23, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 23, 2012 OK here is my paint cut and shut TCL1 TCL2 TC or TS G will be used with a green centre car I have lying around as a spare Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted September 23, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 23, 2012 Well paypal is empty now, just bought enough vents and door handles for 2 sets, some early BR numbers and logos for B430. Will get a new razor saw after I have sold some more keyfob repairs. Yes I will have FIVE high density DMUs sad or what!!!! Thinking of 116 either 2 Tyseley or 1 Tyseley and 1 Cardiff Blue & Grey rest are 117 two Bristol B430 B435 GWR and B&G 118 B465 Blue Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted September 24, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 24, 2012 116 trailer will be for a Cardiff set Will put up the instructions for a 115 TS later Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eetype3 Posted September 28, 2012 Author Share Posted September 28, 2012 Looking forward to the 115 TS info, Martin - having finally found a pic of my chosen unit formation, it turns-out to include a 115 TS not a 116 TS! I have a few questions for the more DMU-knowledgable types out there: 1. I thought that the 116s only gained corridor connections on refurbishment. However, my chosen unit (a 1982 Tyseley formation in blue/grey) has only one refurbished car: 53838 (116 DMBS, refurbished) 59717 (115 TS, not refurbished) 53119 (116 DMS, not refurbished) and my photo appears to show corridor connections. Am I imagining this, or were unrefurbished cars also equipped with corridor connections? 2. Advice on the best method of achieving the white lining around the Rail Grey on a blue/grey car would be much appreciated; all 3 cars are going to need full repaints. So far, I've not handled anything more complex than a 56 in Large Logo so I'm navigating uncharted territory here! 3. Does anyone have interior photos of these units in-service? I'm attempting to establish the interior colour schemes. If memory serves, the 116s I rode on in the early 80s had dark blue floors, white-with-blue-crackle Formica panelling, pale grey roof panels and 2-tone blue seat moquette, and the saloon face of the driver's bulkhead was a pale orange colour - but memory has a nasty habit of blurring over time. "Ah, I don't need to photograph those; they'll always be around...". Oops. Crikey, I'll be photting Freds and Sheds at this rate... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted September 28, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 28, 2012 OK will do this weekend, found I have 4 power cars and 4 trailers left, so will have a spare trailer - might prepare for a 115, but I need to find my power car donor (bought with no cab - used for B430 DMS). I will be doing the 115 and 116 trailers together, will take as far as primer. I still need two more DMS conversion kits and I need to finish B435. 116 will be corridor and a Cardiff set the 116 with 115 TS will be Tysley non gangwayed and in WM logos. My DMU collection is ridiculous 25 cars with 2 donors and 1 spare, and I still need 2 whole classes. B430 needs a repaint, will fit handrails at the same time, I repainted originally as the DMS cut in was a different colour, and that was the obvious set. My biggest problem is I keep running out of black Bs on my transfer sheets, B430 B435 B465 B811 and B821, luckily next is C301. As to gangways, they were all over the placeI remember both with and without, WR sets were AFAIR all gangwayed, will need to check my Platform 5 books Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 I thought that the 116s only gained corridor connections on refurbishment The South Wales sets were fitted circa 1970 to enable conductor-guard working. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted September 28, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 28, 2012 Hi Jim When I converted a Lima 117 to a Cricklewood 127 there were no drawings available and I did not have access to the diagram book in those days. All I could find were decent photos of the TS(L) and none of the TS, including all the ones I had taken. Of course I had to start the model when they were due to be withdrawn. Thankfully due to union blacking of the 317 units the 127s had to soldier on a little longer, trouble was I could not get the time to get over to St Pancras. So a phone call to my mum who lives in Bedford was made. Bless her she went to the station and wrote down if there was a big window or two small ones between the doors on all the coaches of an eight coach train. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted September 28, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 28, 2012 H is the new section so one trailer can donate to 2x116 and 1x115 centre coach Here is H on a paint test run Sorry it isn't the NSE one Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted October 7, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 7, 2012 C301 centre car is now being assembled A & D glued together, E,C, & B glued together. Will be giuing F to D in an hour. D to E tonight Roof will need a lot of filling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted October 7, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 7, 2012 Hi Martin The dimension between seating bays on the Lima centre car are too long which would make for a slightly longer coach, something you have already identified. I have been thinking is the diemsion of the seating bays of the driving cars correct if so would the sides from these be a better starting point? Clive Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted October 7, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 7, 2012 Actually they are the same, so no point, my coach will be 3mm or so too long. Loosing about 1mm due to saw cats and slight sanding of the body cuts. Anyway battery boxes are on the left and the double seats are this side, triple the other. I am going to cut the chassis in the middle and insert some material. Interior is more work!!!! Could do with spare seats Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted October 7, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 7, 2012 OK been cutting off the first clas arm rests and making sections as per the 116 interior photo on railcar site. Lengthening the chassis will be most work as I need to chop it in half and then stick plastic card in the gap then the underneath chassis rails will be reinforced Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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