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Waverley Route new image links and discussion


'CHARD
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Not sure how readable this will be, screen capture from CAD. 52.75mp-53mp route map, ongoing project.

Aerial photos copyright Bing although suitably altered, to give credit to origin.

 

Plenty of room......

Hawick Station Capture 5.JPG

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Yep, I use that resource a lot.

 

It is 1:1 in CAD though and I can do all sorts with it, scale, add gradient profile, curvature, multiple date coverage for site development and ultimately build it in 3D creating landscapes.

I do find nls a great review point for starting, but its still just a map on an aerial view.

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On 11/06/2020 at 23:20, The Border Reiver said:

LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0 61984 at Hawick shed, on a sunny day in 1961

 

1961 - K3 at Hawick

 

 

Lovely photo.  A Tweedmouth K3: I wonder what it was doing at Hawick? Pretty sure the loco next to it is 65331 with its curvaceous tender cab: most J36 tender cabs looked like garden sheds.

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22 hours ago, The Border Reiver said:

Peak D23 at Carlisle station on the down Waverley in August 1965. Unusually, it standing at platform 4 and not the usual platform 3 which is occupied by a class 40.

 

GH040_30_20161130_0029_1200.jpg.9f45b91efa230c95200a7e6f9e115506.jpg

 

The usual random parcels van inserted behind the loco.  If my eyes do not deceive me, a "Stove R" six-wheeler.  Wonderfully archaic. I'm guessing these parcels vans were attached at Carlisle: I wouldn't have thought something like a Stove R would have been rated for the maximum line speeds attainable between St Pancras and Carlisle.

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6 hours ago, Richard Hall said:

 

The usual random parcels van inserted behind the loco.  If my eyes do not deceive me, a "Stove R" six-wheeler.  Wonderfully archaic. I'm guessing these parcels vans were attached at Carlisle: I wouldn't have thought something like a Stove R would have been rated for the maximum line speeds attainable between St Pancras and Carlisle.

 

To me the 6-wheeler looks more like a Thompson LNER BZ rather than the LMS-type Stove R.  I have an extract from the June - Sept 1962 ScR Carriage Marshalling Circular which (for the Down "Waverley") says "Attach rear Galashiels - BZ (SX) Galashiels to Edinburgh" although it's entirely possible that changed operating requirements by 1965 meant attachment at Carlisle.  The Up working has the note "N.F.W. from Carlisle" which I think means "no vehicles with wheelbase less than 15 feet" (but perhaps some-one more knowledgeable can confirm).  That would tie in with your thoughts on line speeds south of Carlisle.

 

Alasdair

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the LMR 1965-66 PTM has the Down Waverley (09.15 St.Pan. departure?) as:

1S64-65.PNG.1176c7bf7b223cf6370917a39f54a383.PNG

 

From 4/10/65 (I believe the Waverley did not run in Winter) there is this:

1S64-66.PNG.384aae08b6abf0948f9018090adf8bc9.PNG

So the CK/BSK/PMV are detached from the 10.15 St.Pan-Glasgow Central

 

'PMV' is only defined as 'Luggage and Parcels van' but will not be BR Standard stock (i.e. mk1 with buckeye couplers and Pullman gangways, denoted by 'Z')

Also, it's probably not a Brake Van type as there are specific vehicle codes for these i.e. B/BG (bogied), BY (4-whl), BZ (6-whl). Stove vans might be actually defined as such.

I think (and I'm often wrong) that N.F.W. means 'No Four-wheeled' vehicles - presumably 6-wheelers were ok.

c.f. there were Abdn-Glasgow trains which had an XFISH (6-whl) on the end, but not a FISH (4-whl)

 

For completeness, the corresponding Up Waverley (10,15 Edin departure) was:

1M88-65.PNG.2019b451c6d78f7efd40350f53dc1275.PNG

 

Many thanks, as always, to Robert Carroll's Coaching Stock Group at groups.io

https://brcoachingstock.groups.io

Edited by keefer
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Gosh!

Melmerby's link to the the Beeb report above about the Carlisle re-opening with the South Scotland MP urging for a station stop at Langholm would make for an expensive diversion, compared to a GWR style Langholm Road stop (7-8 miles distant) adjacent to the A9 in the vicinity of the old Langholm branch Riddings Juction.

 

I hadn't realised what an interesting history the Langholm branch had until I Googled the booklet by Bruce McCartney here  on the branch.

  • The Caledionian secured the defeat of the original 1845 NBR bill to extend from Hawick to Carlisle via Langholm.
  • The CR later proposed a line via Teviot dale and Langholm to Hawick - which may well have resulted in a CR/NBR confrontation like Peebles.
  • In 1859 the NBR eventually succeeded with the Liddersdale (Waverley route) - opening in 1862, the Langholm branch in 1864.

 

 

 

 

 

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On 20/06/2020 at 15:15, AJCT said:

 

To me the 6-wheeler looks more like a Thompson LNER BZ rather than the LMS-type Stove R. 

 

I never knew such an animal even existed.  My life will now be incomplete without one (in N gauge).  I should imagine this was the last regular working for a six-wheeler on a class 1 passenger train: the WR was a wonderful railway but perhaps a little too rustic to survive in the modern world.

 

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On 26/01/2010 at 18:30, 'CHARD said:

There is no end of interest in that photo. And loads of imponderables: what is she working (hint, it ain't what's wound-up!), when was this taken, did the photographer take more pics and if so, what was occurring just to his right, at the goods yard and possibly the depot - if it was still open? Hawick from this angle is compelling because it is relatively unusual. Right now, there's a swimming pool or row of cross-trainers where the duff is standing.

 

 

I am that photographer. It was taken in August 1966 when I was visiting my Dad's family (Bouglas) in Waverley Terrace and I was nearly 14 at the time. 

I can't remember taking many more 'snaps' apart from a couple of me standing in the cab of two different 'Peaks' on the southbound Waverley at Hawick Station (D18 and D35). I also have a couple of views from the cab of, I believe, D5060 looking south from the station. My cousin Ian and I managed to persuade the driver to give us a cab ride whilst they uncoupled and repositioned to recouple at the north end of the train that had come from Waverley. The pictures are pretty poor looking now as they were processed in the school darkroom...

D19_etc.jpg

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22 minutes ago, ADIRU777 said:

I am that photographer. It was taken in August 1966 when I was visiting my Dad's family (Bouglas) in Waverley Terrace and I was nearly 14 at the time. 

I can't remember taking many more 'snaps' apart from a couple of me standing in the cab of two different 'Peaks' on the southbound Waverley at Hawick Station (D18 and D35). I also have a couple of views from the cab of, I believe, D5060 looking south from the station. My cousin Ian and I managed to persuade the driver to give us a cab ride whilst they uncoupled and repositioned to recouple at the north end of the train that had come from Waverley. The pictures are pretty poor looking now as they were processed in the school darkroom...

 

 

Far from it, these snaps - as you call them - are fantastically evocative!  Thank you so much for sharing and welcome to the group!

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'cousin Ian' is indeed Ian Bouglas who captured Hawick station, yard and environs in some detail shortly after closure to assist modellers with the finer detail in later years. Meanwhile the attached pics are just great!

 

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3 hours ago, Ross60103 said:

'cousin Ian' is indeed Ian Bouglas who captured Hawick station, yard and environs in some detail shortly after closure to assist modellers with the finer detail in later years. Meanwhile the attached pics are just great!

 

 

Ian B's photographic documenting of post-closure Hawick is indeed essential resource material for the teams and individuals creating models of the area.  Thanks to Ian and his contemporaries for taking this once in a lifetime opportunity.

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Would I be correct in guessing that this was the Ticket Office to the right as you entered.  I can only recall it being used very occasionally - but there again, I just used the train occasionally. The boarding to the left of the photograph probably would be the start of the entrance to the subway to the Up platform.

 

My memory of the main (?) Ticket Office was to the left on entering - it had an LNER map to the right with a large arrow (presumably pointing to Hawick).  It was on this map that I saw for the first time the tramway to Stobs Camp.  

 

I last saw the map in Hawick Museum many years ago.

 

Bruce

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10 hours ago, 'CHARD said:

 

Ian B's photographic documenting of post-closure Hawick is indeed essential resource material for the teams and individuals creating models of the area.  Thanks to Ian and his contemporaries for taking this once in a lifetime opportunity.

 

I hadn't appreciated how important Ian's contribution has been. Well done and thanks to him.

 

BW, Adrian

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On the gable end of the original building inside the 1913 extension Bruce.

The boarding is the diagonal return of the forecourt elevation.

Hope you and family are keeping well Bruce.

The Arran ferry will be running from Troon for a couple of years from next year. Coffee and cake available if you're heading this way.

 

Mac. 

Edited by Iain Mac
Sodding predictive text correction.
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On 16/02/2021 at 16:37, 37175 said:

Let's get the ball rolling again. Several new pics have appeared on Ernie's Flickr account recently, here's just a few of them. Nice to see the Border Counties stub at Riccarton being used for shunting.

 

 

209 NB-5-63 Riccarton Jct  (Roy Perkins) 184

 

 

That's an interesting train, can anyone suggest what it is?  Are those all vans, and why the brake tender?

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11 hours ago, 64F said:

 

That's an interesting train, can anyone suggest what it is?  Are those all vans, and why the brake tender?

 

I've been slacking and have only just caught up with these; need a little time to reflect and observe! 

 

I'm certain others here are better qualified than I, but several things have occurred to me already :wub:

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