Waverley Route new image links and discussion

[62440]

Regarding the brake tender.  I showed the photo above at a talk in Manchester and was told that quite often a locomotive would be paired with a brake tender.  

 

 

[64F]

4 hours ago, 62440 said:

Regarding the brake tender.  I showed the photo above at a talk in Manchester and was told that quite often a locomotive would be paired with a brake tender.  

 

I suppose that makes sense, I've just never seen a picture of one on a coaching stock train before.  C headcode and with a remarkably long and homogeneous rake of vans - so maybe a newspaper train diverted off the WCML?  If it was taken on the same day as the shot of D5314 at the same place then WCML diversions would explain the need to shunt a passenger train.

[Daddyman]

17 hours ago, 62440 said:

Regarding the brake tender.  I showed the photo above at a talk in Manchester and was told that quite often a locomotive would be paired with a brake tender.  

But wasn't that only on unfitted trains? 

 

My guess was that the vans were being put into store there, and some of the brakes were defective or couldn't be coupled, making the train partially fitted, hence the need for the brake tender. Not sure how convinced I am by my theory though...  

Edited February 24, 2021 by Daddyman

['CHARD]

Another view of the BRCW Type 2 with the head traffic on 2M52, providing a wonderful panoramic view of Riccarton Jct, and Leysburnfoot (now the walkers' bothy), right foreground.

 

 

Regarding the EE Type 4 put inside on the Border Counties line, that's a proper conundrum.  The presence of a brake tender is a real oddball, as the van rake looks like Mk1 stock, at least in part. 

 

I wonder a) if it's a West Coast diversion (see above comments regarding the Class 26 local also put inside), and b) if the brake tender was required because some of the vans were running unfitted, and the train was bound for Springburn Works for overhaul?

 

Given that the loco is unidentified, but is not a Haymarket 40, it's either an LM (probable) working throughout or NE machine (taken over the train at Carlisle), it also begs the question: was it a late-running and out of path Manchester to Aberdeen parcels, which ran overnight on either Friday or Saturday (can't place which just now) - 40s were the commonplace booked traction on this working.

 

Sorry the previous paragraph is near-gibberish!  

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by 'CHARD
adding content

[Daddyman]

48 minutes ago, 'CHARD said:

Another view of the BRCW Type 2 with the head traffic on 2M52, providing a wonderful panoramic view of Riccarton Jct, and Leysburnfoot (now the walkers' bothy), right foreground.

 

 

Regarding the EE Type 4 put inside on the Border Counties line, that's a proper conundrum.  The presence of a brake tender is a real oddball, as the van rake looks like Mk1 stock, at least in part. 

 

I wonder a) if it's a West Coast diversion (see above comments regarding the Class 26 local also put inside), and b) if the brake tender was required because some of the vans were running unfitted, and the train was bound for Springburn Works for overhaul?

 

Given that the loco is unidentified, but is not a Haymarket 40, it's either an LM (probable) working throughout or NE machine (taken over the train at Carlisle), it also begs the question: was it a late-running and out of path Manchester to Aberdeen parcels, which ran overnight on either Friday or Saturday (can't place which just now) - 40s were the commonplace booked traction on this working.

 

Sorry the previous paragraph is near-gibberish!  

 

Yes, I noticed the Mk1 and thought at the time it scuppered my storage theory. There seem to be some GUVs in there too. 

 

Am I right in thinking no train of Mk1s and GUVs would need a brake tender in normal circumstances? And by then EE Type 4s had been around long enough for their brake capabilities to be known. 

['CHARD]

4 minutes ago, Daddyman said:

Yes, I noticed the Mk1 and thought at the time it scuppered my storage theory. There seem to be some GUVs in there too. 

 

Am I right in thinking no train of Mk1s and GUVs would need a brake tender in normal circumstances? And by then EE Type 4s had been around long enough for their brake capabilities to be known. 

 

I agree on all points!  Indeed 40s were probably the single most heavily utilised diesel type on the route, so would be considered a safe pair of wheels. 

 

[Iain Mac]

Can't mind the story of the 40 being inside but given it'd be class 5 EC or class 1 Parcel I doubt it would be inside anyway due to running line speed without restriction.

The 26 was an Edinburgh- Hawick class 2 which ran forward to Riccarton to run round, via some convoluted shunting, due to the north crossover of Hawick south being out of commission and Hawick North switched out, so I'd assume weekend.

Info I recall from Roy.

On an observational note: vac only 40 's were a beep beep to stop running EO, might be collecting stock from Hawick for return to Craigentiny and fetched the tender as brake assist for the outward light engine move?  Just supposition.

Single only instance of brake tender on the route that I am aware of.

Photos are from the same day of both trains and Roy had travelled up from the Holm to record them, if I recall.

Edit* Recieves inundation of photos of brake tenders on the route......

 

Mac.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Iain Mac
Add something

[64F]

Could it be a pigeon train?  I've seen pictures of some of quite impressive length and I seem to recall reading about pigeons being released at Riccarton Junction.

Edited February 24, 2021 by 64F

[Iain Mac]

It's as plausible as any other explanation.

Roy only got the two photos of the 40 and consist, the one Bruce shared held at the signal and the initial one of it pulling off the branch over the diamond. A full set exists for the Sulzer type 2.

This involved accessing the Counties off the up main, running right up the stub over the points, setting back into the down platform via the down link over the diamond. Detach and run bang road in advance of the loop points, back up through the loop to the north end and then back on top with engine at the north. It then set back from the down onto the Counties to wait time before departing.

These are all from 63 so the north box, crossover and up loop(s) access had all been removed.

Bit gutting that I can't just pick up the phone and ask Roy. 

[Bill Jamieson]

On 24/02/2021 at 10:17, 'CHARD said:

Another view of the BRCW Type 2 with the head traffic on 2M52, providing a wonderful panoramic view of Riccarton Jct, and Leysburnfoot (now the walkers' bothy), right foreground.

 

 

Regarding the EE Type 4 put inside on the Border Counties line, that's a proper conundrum.  The presence of a brake tender is a real oddball, as the van rake looks like Mk1 stock, at least in part. 

 

I wonder a) if it's a West Coast diversion (see above comments regarding the Class 26 local also put inside), and b) if the brake tender was required because some of the vans were running unfitted, and the train was bound for Springburn Works for overhaul?

 

Given that the loco is unidentified, but is not a Haymarket 40, it's either an LM (probable) working throughout or NE machine (taken over the train at Carlisle), it also begs the question: was it a late-running and out of path Manchester to Aberdeen parcels, which ran overnight on either Friday or Saturday (can't place which just now) - 40s were the commonplace booked traction on this working.

 

Sorry the previous paragraph is near-gibberish!  

 

The Manchester to Aberdeen newspapers was booked over the WR very early on a Sunday morning but was a class 1 working, while the train depicted is displaying a class 3 headcode. There is clearly no need in this case for the assistance of a brake tender but if the loco was a 'foreigner' borrowed by Kingmoor (say) to plug a gap, it would presumably haul the tender around regardless of whether it was needed so that it also got back eventually to its home depot.

Bill

PS My original purpose in accessing this thread was to post this image which almost certainly has never been seen before - https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/78/282/

[Iain Mac]

Nice photo.

 

Just above Stobs Castle having passed the water tanks (for Stobs Castle rather than the railway itself).

 

The gradient change as depicted by the board in the cess is 1:80 onto a 1:117 in the direction of Whitrope. No wonder she's throwing it out. Mileage is just approaching the 58mp, about 150 yds short.

 

The same train can be seen in Siviters book at plate 90 exiting Whitrope Tunnel. I also have another photo of it near Langburnshiel in my archive.

 

According to the Siviter book she is on the 11:40 Millerhill-Carlisle Kingmoor.

Edited October 30, 2021 by Iain Mac
Correcting predictive text whittery

['CHARD]

Not sure if we've had this previously, it's been a wee while since this thread was refreshed!  

 

Anyway, Tweedbank first time round, with a 64B D26X encroaching with 4S41 circa 1968, at a guess. Suggesting the 350 is on its way to St Boswells.  Lovely!

 

https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/57/266/

[62440]

I think this is one of George Kinghorn’s photos rescued by Dougie Squance.  I’m guessing but perhaps George had cadged a lift on the Gala to Kelso freight. See RailScot photo https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/56/210/

 

The daily freight after passenger closure in 1964 was still handled with a Hawick loco, but I guess once the shed was closed, the daily freight to Kelso was handed over to the Gala 350hp shunter. 
 

Bruce. 

[coronach]

On 24/02/2021 at 13:34, Iain Mac said:

Can't mind the story of the 40 being inside but given it'd be class 5 EC or class 1 Parcel I doubt it would be inside anyway due to running line speed without restriction.

The 26 was an Edinburgh- Hawick class 2 which ran forward to Riccarton to run round, via some convoluted shunting, due to the north crossover of Hawick south being out of commission and Hawick North switched out, so I'd assume weekend.

Info I recall from Roy.

On an observational note: vac only 40 's were a beep beep to stop running EO, might be collecting stock from Hawick for return to Craigentiny and fetched the tender as brake assist for the outward light engine move?  Just supposition.

Single only instance of brake tender on the route that I am aware of.

Photos are from the same day of both trains and Roy had travelled up from the Holm to record them, if I recall.

Edit* Recieves inundation of photos of brake tenders on the route......

 

Mac.

Hi Iain, Having been gifted a Dapol model of a DBT, I would be very interested in seeing any photos of diesel brake tenders operated on the Waverley Route. I would expect them to have been used on unfitted freights.

Edited December 31, 2022 by coronach

[DOCJACOB]

Guess would have a long fruitless search, happy to be proven wrong, but this is the only image of brake tender on Waverley Route I can recall/remember. 

['CHARD]

 

Interesting Google Earth style fly-through. Great way of checking out some lesser-known stretches of the line around Minto Kames, then south of Penton, Arthuret and the like. 

 

Actually very therapeutic, put some of your favourite music on low, make a brew, sit back and relax with the very best scenery these islands have to offer.

 

The counterpart Edinburgh - Newtown St Boswells video is also available from the same source.

[26power]

On 31/12/2022 at 17:12, DOCJACOB said:

Guess would have a long fruitless search, happy to be proven wrong, but this is the only image of brake tender on Waverley Route I can recall/remember. 

Hi @DOCJACOB  Was there meant to be a link in your message?

[DOCJACOB]

Sorry no link. Just a comment. As rather keen on NBR, Southern Scottish LNER etc and thus Waverley Route even in my large stash of books/pictures this is only one I’ve ever seen of brake tender. 

[26power]

17 hours ago, DOCJACOB said:

Sorry no link. Just a comment. As rather keen on NBR, Southern Scottish LNER etc and thus Waverley Route even in my large stash of books/pictures this is only one I’ve ever seen of brake tender. 

Ah, sorry.  I had forgotten about the picture further up the thread showing a brake tender!

[Iain Mac]

On 31/12/2022 at 12:32, coronach said:

Hi Iain, Having been gifted a Dapol model of a DBT, I would be very interested in seeing any photos of diesel brake tenders operated on the Waverley Route. I would expect them to have been used on unfitted freights.

I have only 2 images of a brake tender attached to a train on the line across thousands of images in my archive.

One of which is shared above and the other is of the same train taken from the other side with it sat in clear on the Counties.

I can only assume it was sent as part of a stock move being on the trailing draw and in a NPCS consist.

 

Roy must just of got lucky with that one but I know he went specially to Riccarton that day to photograph the enhanced movements due to Hawick south having crossover issues. Next available location for rounding being Riccarton Junction. 

[Iain Mac]

https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/86/563/

 

Motherload.

 

Photographic proof for the masses, at last.

 

I have seen Tom Blakes photo of her in at the camp but neither have a copy, nor permission to share..

[shed64a]

What a picture.  I wonder how many more are hiding out there.

[60027Merlin]

This was the Deltic travelling light engine, north to Haymarket Shed for trials in the area.

 

English Electric staff travelled with it and on reaching Gala they alighted from the loco which was crawling along and proceeded to walk along the platform edge checking for clearance after which they hopped back on it (it did not stop).

 

This was witnessed by two local lads on the platform trainspotting, one being the photographer, who on hearing the loud engine roar from afar, ran back to his parents house not far away to get his camera. He just made it back in time!