Edgehill electrified flyover, wavertree technology park

[ElectroSoldier]

On 10/03/2015 at 17:43, Michael Delamar said:

 

Looking at this map in the top right it seems to show a direct connection from Pighue junction on to the gridiron.

 

 

[LMS2968]

Yes, it was still there and used in my day. Traffic from Alec Dock would arrive at Olive Mount Jct and propel the train back via that route. Following the death of a shunter, management decreed that the loco had to run a round and draw the train into the yards.

[beast66606]

The connection from Pighue Lane Jct ran up the bank to Exhibition Jct.

 

There was a gong, controlled by Pighue Lane Jct, at the Olive Mount Jct end of the tunnel for communication between train crew and the bobby for the shunting moves which were used for trains from Edge Lane Jct (and beyond = the docks) which reversed at Pighue Lane

Edited August 26, 2019 by beast66606

[LMS2968]

I think this is from 'Britain from Above'.

 

Olive Mount Jct is partially hidden by the high level 'Top of Grid' reception sidings, the tunnel is below their sidings' throat. The line lower right is from Edge Lane Jct and Atlantic Dock Jct, and onwards to Alec Dock.
 

Edited August 26, 2019 by LMS2968

[ElectroSoldier]

So the very bottom right of that picture is the Bootle branch, right goto to Piko1 and Bootle Branch Jn, while left goes to Pighue Ln Jn, into Olive mount cutting etc etc.

 

The reverse run onto the grids was quite steep then, as it had to get up over the line in the amount of space you see in the picture.

[LMS2968]

30 minutes ago, ElectroSoldier said:

The reverse run onto the grids was quite steep then, as it had to get up over the line in the amount of space you see in the picture.

No. The gradient to Top of Grid started at the western end of the yards more or less at the Picton Road overbridge. The gradients varied from 1 in 100 but at the eastern end was 1 in 60 at the throat. The distance from the base to that point was around three quarters of a mile. The different yards were all at different altitudes, rising towards the east. The gradients were sufficient to ensure that wagon(s) released fro Top of Grid would roll all the way to the western end if needed. The difference in altitude between the top yard and main line gave rise to the famous Olive Mount Cutting, which is about seventy feet of sandstone deep at Mill Lane. It was hump shunting on a grand scale!

[ElectroSoldier]

3 hours ago, LMS2968 said:

No. The gradient to Top of Grid started at the western end of the yards more or less at the Picton Road overbridge. The gradients varied from 1 in 100 but at the eastern end was 1 in 60 at the throat. The distance from the base to that point was around three quarters of a mile. The different yards were all at different altitudes, rising towards the east. The gradients were sufficient to ensure that wagon(s) released fro Top of Grid would roll all the way to the western end if needed. The difference in altitude between the top yard and main line gave rise to the famous Olive Mount Cutting, which is about seventy feet of sandstone deep at Mill Lane. It was hump shunting on a grand scale!

 

No sorry what I mean is a train coming off the Bootle Branch had to go left at Edge lane jn, through Olive mount tunnel into the headshunt at Olive mount then reverse back towards and use Edge lane jn, this time however to take a left up over the Bootle Branch that goes to Bootle Branch Jn and Piko 2 tunnel then continue climbing up to Exhibition Jn and join the north end of the Circular goods as it came to an end there at Exhibition jn.

[ElectroSoldier]

I just had a look and found this.

 

 

It has changed so much since this picture and when I worked Edge hill its hard to recognise it.

 

You have Olive mount curve on the left that goes on to Pighue box and Olive mount tunnel and Picko 2 > Picko 1 tunnel on the right. The train goes left here and then reverses up over the north tunnel portal of Picko 2 ?

[LMS2968]

I like that! That's Pighue Lane Lane Jct., Pighue Lane itself is on the overbridge.  The line on the left and rising goes to exhibition Jct., that to the right is  to Edge Lane and the Bootle Branch. At Exhibition, a train could carry on into the yards, take a left which put on to the line from the Circle which carried on to Waterloo Tunnel, or reverse there on to the gridiron feed lines up to Top of Grid.

 

By the way, it was early to mid-seventies when I was there!

 

[ElectroSoldier]

I wasnt there until the late 80s early 90s. not working there anyway as in at Edge hill, I worked Chester a while and Warrington, did a real short stint at Crewe but then transfered to Edge hill depot and thats where I stayed as far as the PWay work went.

 

I think this area would make thee most amazing layout of all time...

Couldnt manage the space in OO... would have to be N guage I think.

 

When I was there it was pretty obvious things were not what they seemed. I remember the circular goods line and I remember it being used but no idea of the year. I remember Shed 8A being there and the viaduct in front of it but its all so much of a haze now. And when youre down on the track walking it looking at fishplates and points, looking up to see where the line used to climb and is just now a landscaped hill that looks like its always been there isnt really on your mind.

Were you train crew?
I was PWay but not production all the time, I walked from the buffer stops at Lime street to Earlestown, all the Bootle branch to the dock gates, Lime street buffer stops to Sutton Weaver GF (just shy of the M56 bridge), Just short of Halewood to Hightown > Kirkby, Ormskirk (Merseyrail) including a large portion of the maze under the river out past James street. When I was based at Edge hill anyway.

Edited August 26, 2019 by ElectroSoldier

[beast66606]

2 hours ago, ElectroSoldier said:

I just had a look and found this.

 

It has changed so much since this picture and when I worked Edge hill its hard to recognise it.

 

You have Olive mount curve on the left that goes on to Pighue box and Olive mount tunnel and Picko 2 > Picko 1 tunnel on the right. The train goes left here and then reverses up over the north tunnel portal of Picko 2 ?

 

Richard Foster photo I think.

 

I think the engine is propelling the brake to Edge Lane Junction - possible using the (big) triangle to turn. I'd need to look up in the appendix to see if propelling moves were authorised all the way to the docks.

 

Exhibiton would be just out of sight at the top left and the circular can be seen on a curve, again top left.

The photo is taken from the portal in the front of the photo linked below, can't get higher to show the railway but the general direction is about right.

 

https://goo.gl/maps/zAn5PDFCEgm4nU8f6

 

Here's Pighue Lane after abolition - the distant signal is visible in RDFs photo in front of the box.

 

 

Here's a view from near Exhibition Junction with the circular to the right and the line down to Pighue Lane on the left.

 

 

[big jim]

The whole area must have been a fascinating place to have seen back in its heyday, seeing the place now it’s hard to picture quite how much was crammed into the space and quite how it was worked regarding marshalling trains etc must have took some serious planning and forward thinking 

 

ive not been to tuebrook or the docks for a good 8 months now, must try and get down there again soon before it lapses off my card 

[LMS2968]

I was a guard. Almost everything was intact back then but the shed building had been demolished. It was still a stabling point with the diesels standing in the open. Access was still from No. 11 on the Circle and down the 1 in 23 slope. I can't remember if the girder bridge and lines between Wapping Cutting and Olive Mount / Top of Grid were still in use - it was over 45 years ago - but I never worked them. I didn't work into Top of Grid at all and this might have been a purely internal job and not for main line men; the situation where I would go there even for road learning never arose. They were accessed only from the lower yards, and 'main line' from Waterloo Tunnel and Wapping Cutting so would always be trip (Target) jobs.

[ElectroSoldier]

Thats exactly what I thought big Jim.

When I worked there there was always a sense in me that it had at one point been so much more, the "old hands" knew the area from when it was busy but even then it was hard to visualise just how busy, now its almost impossible... 

 

I remember the engine shed from when I was a nipper but it wasnt there when I worked there, neither was the iron bridge over the Chat moss, but I remember it, I remember thinking it was so industrial in how it looked.

Then after the riots in Toxteth it all came to an end, and it all disapeared so quickly after that. . .

Maybe a year later the viaduct with the arches for the engine shed was gone! the track that fed onto the Circle from Allerton was changed, Wavertree junction shows signs of how much more it used to be but its hard to look at it and think what it used to be.

 

That 1 in 23 drop down from the circle at engine shed jn must have made it one of the steepest lines in the country! Not a nice feeling on a wet winters night I bet :-)

 

I remember all the places on the Bootle branch where you could sort of tell there used to be something there.

Atlantic dock jn always fascinated me. It always got me that there was no Atlantic dock, it went to Alexandra dock The Canada dock tunnel was free of vegitation back then too, it seems to be over grown now so you cant see it. I wouldnt be surprised if they built a wall to plug up the tunnel too now.

 

Im going to have to start laying out a paper track plan, see how long it would be in n scale.

[ElectroSoldier]

So Ive been doing some research among other things and Ive found in OO scale the layout would be about 20 meters long, even in N Guage Im looking at 10 meters, If I want to include Downhill and Edge hill CS then I just dont have the space.

 

I found an interesting site along the way though. Ill link directly to the site rather than diretly to the plans because its only fair to give credit for the work.

https://www.signalbox.org/diagrams.php

Change the Show pre-grouping company: drop down menu to London North Western

The owner has some rather wonderful track diagrams with signal placing for Olive mount Jn, and the top of the grid ie the grid directly above Pighue Lane Jn.