RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted May 15, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 15, 2015 (edited) I understand frustration but a few things are worth keeping in mind: Kernow has not entered into any contractual relationship and committed to a delivery date with their customers They do not take payment in full nor a deposit Therefore no customers have lost anything financially and Kernow have not failed to honour any contract with their customers. Therefore whilst frustrating Kernow have done nothing wrong, the product announcements are no more than an advisory to potential customers of Kernow's intention to produce these models. I really do think the frustration needs to be tempered by a recognition that Kernow do not have the resources (either financial or product development) available to model suppliers such as Hornby and Bachmann. These models must be a significant financial risk to Kernow, and unlike bigger suppliers I suspect that this financial risk is a very personal one and that the proprietor of Kernow is staking an awful lot personally on these models (that is supposition and I'll retract if it is shown to be incorrect). They do not have to make these models and I have seen no evidence of anybody else wanting to make the D6xx or Bulleid diesels. Given the sort of delays we see from some of the big manufacturers (this is currently the subject of a hot thread in the Bachmann section) then I think it a bit unfair to criticise a model shop trying to offer niche products and when they have not committed to any delivery nor taken payment. Personally I'd rather models were announced shortly before being ready for shipping, however if the commercial risk of being gazumped by another manufacturer is high for a manufacturer like Bachmannor Hornby then I suspect it could be catastrophic to a supplier like Kernow hence I do understand why they need to let the market know they are doing these. That does not stop anybody else doing the models but I like to think none of the big boys would try and stamp on a shop taking on challenging niche projects like these. Edited May 15, 2015 by jjb1970 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium TrevorP1 Posted May 15, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 15, 2015 I've had mine on order since I cant remember when. Sure I'd like it now but I've got to wait. So what? Good on Kernow for doing this model. It takes as long as it takes. I'm old enough to just remember the real thing working. I think I may have been on a train pulled by D600. As a teenager, while helping with another preservation project, I even climbed all over the pair at Barry and like many didn't realise what we were loosing because we were all so wrapped up in steam. So, thank you Chris and all for doing this. It is quite personal for me and, except for the KMRC team, there will be fewer more pleased than me when it arrives! Trevor. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
105mark Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 An idea! We all long for information but are unhappy as little is forthcoming. The manufacturers/sellers want sales of these & other products.They are unhappy as no sales revenue is arriving. However they know what the manufacturing position is. Why don't they give us regular updates...even if it is on very minor events..often great fun comes from the lead up to arrival of a parcel and news like this could only please customers...a good thing from all angles..the sellers & the buyers. I would strangely be interested in updates...such as "the cab mould is being corrected for testing in 3 weeks" 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 13, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 13, 2015 An idea! We all long for information but are unhappy as little is forthcoming. The manufacturers/sellers want sales of these & other products.They are unhappy as no sales revenue is arriving. However they know what the manufacturing position is. Why don't they give us regular updates...even if it is on very minor events..often great fun comes from the lead up to arrival of a parcel and news like this could only please customers...a good thing from all angles..the sellers & the buyers. I would strangely be interested in updates...such as "the cab mould is being corrected for testing in 3 weeks" Kernow do - they update us whenever there is something significant to say. To be honest I don't really want to know if 'today the cab window apertures were cut on the tooling' or 'we have had a slight delay in getting the tooling of the bogies right' but it is nice to know when major events happen, and that is exactly what we have been told. We all know this model has been a long time in gestation but then we also know the reasons why and we know the last significant steps in developing it. All we have to do is wait because we know that one day it will arrive and we can probably have the fun of tracing the model's passage enroute to us. Manufacturers, especially smaller concerns developing their models through commissioned work are, it seems, forever in an awkward situation - they could go ahead and develop without saying anything (at which point we suddenly find 4 Adams radials arriving within a month or two and winder why people are so stupid as to do that at the same time as someone else) or they can announce early in the development cycle and give us time to save up for whatever it is we want out of such announcement. Whichever they someone will say it's wrong and they should have done the other thing and of course some people like surprises (4 Adams radials - now there's a surprise). Simple answer in my view is just to sit back and wait and absorb any progress news as we receive it. Fretting about it won't make it happen any faster, blow-by-blow, or rather cut-by-cut, announcements on tooling progress won't make it arrive any sooner. But seeing EPs and various stages of prototyping through to livery samples will tell us what we really need to know and give us a good hint of when our whatever could arrive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeharvey22 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Would a daily message with "No changes today" suffice for those anxious for more information? Would a monthly message with "No changes this month" suffice for those anxious for more information? Would an annual message with "No changes this year" suffice for those anxious for more information? I am unclear at what stage some people feel that they are somehow being ignored because there is not a positive message. But would they be happy with one of the three alternatives above if there really is no change? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith George Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 An idea! We all long for information but are unhappy as little is forthcoming. The manufacturers/sellers want sales of these & other products.They are unhappy as no sales revenue is arriving. However they know what the manufacturing position is. Why don't they give us regular updates...even if it is on very minor events..often great fun comes from the lead up to arrival of a parcel and news like this could only please customers...a good thing from all angles..the sellers & the buyers. I would strangely be interested in updates...such as "the cab mould is being corrected for testing in 3 weeks" I absolutely agree.! The most frustrating thing about this wait is very sparse information coming from Kernow. They have their weekly newsletter so it would not be a problem for them to mention the model regularly. It would help to keep their customers happy. Keith. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith George Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Would a daily message with "No changes today" suffice for those anxious for more information? Would a monthly message with "No changes this month" suffice for those anxious for more information? Would an annual message with "No changes this year" suffice for those anxious for more information? I am unclear at what stage some people feel that they are somehow being ignored because there is not a positive message. But would they be happy with one of the three alternatives above if there really is no change? Would a daily message with "No changes today" suffice for those anxious for more information? Would a monthly message with "No changes this month" suffice for those anxious for more information? Would an annual message with "No changes this year" suffice for those anxious for more information? I am unclear at what stage some people feel that they are somehow being ignored because there is not a positive message. But would they be happy with one of the three alternatives above if there really is no change? Yes, perhaps it seem's silly but I would welcome a monthly statement as you have suggested. After a working life of being on the road in sales, one of the most important things I was taught was to keep your customers fully informed. Keith. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted June 13, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 13, 2015 Maybe I suffer from uncommon patience but I'm happy to wait for actual news when there is some rather than no news for the sake of it. While it might only be a few lines of type in a newsletter it still costs staff time to write that. Time which might otherwise be spent securing a sale on the shop floor or packing an order in the mail room. Kernow MRC may have a high profile but is still a relatively modest business and is staffed accordingly. As far as I'm concerned there have been adequate updates and we know the finished models are not so far off now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith George Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Maybe I suffer from uncommon patience but I'm happy to wait for actual news when there is some rather than no news for the sake of it. While it might only be a few lines of type in a newsletter it still costs staff time to write that. Time which might otherwise be spent securing a sale on the shop floor or packing an order in the mail room. Kernow MRC may have a high profile but is still a relatively modest business and is staffed accordingly. As far as I'm concerned there have been adequate updates and we know the finished models are not so far off now March 2008 this model was announced, over seven years ago. Surely it is easy to understand why there is some frustration. Keith. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Not Captain Kernow Posted June 13, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 13, 2015 March 2008 this model was announced, over seven years ago. Surely it is easy to understand why there is some frustration. Keith. Wrong. It was June 2010. It was announced with Dapol as the manufacturer, then in August 2014 it was moved to DJModels after Kernow found that Dapol had done no work on it at all, so effectively that was a new announcement, after which the first CADs were shown at Warley in November, just 3 months later. In the run up to August 2014 Kernow had shown various updates with progress on the master model that was being made due to the lack of drawings. Of course, you can ignore all these updates and just keep banging the drum about how there has been a lack of updates! I don't understand how having a message saying "there have been no updates" is any more helpful than just not saying anything except when there is an update? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith George Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Wrong. It was June 2010. It was announced with Dapol as the manufacturer, then in August 2014 it was moved to DJModels after Kernow found that Dapol had done no work on it at all, so effectively that was a new announcement, after which the first CADs were shown at Warley in November, just 3 months later. In the run up to August 2014 Kernow had shown various updates with progress on the master model that was being made due to the lack of drawings. Of course, you can ignore all these updates and just keep banging the drum about how there has been a lack of updates! I don't understand how having a message saying "there have been no updates" is any more helpful than just not saying anything except when there is an update? NO, you are wrong. Check it out, it was in March 2008 it was announced. It is in black and white on the internet.!!! I in fact put my pre-order in during March 2008. Keith. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith George Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Wrong. It was June 2010. It was announced with Dapol as the manufacturer, then in August 2014 it was moved to DJModels after Kernow found that Dapol had done no work on it at all, so effectively that was a new announcement, after which the first CADs were shown at Warley in November, just 3 months later. In the run up to August 2014 Kernow had shown various updates with progress on the master model that was being made due to the lack of drawings. Of course, you can ignore all these updates and just keep banging the drum about how there has been a lack of updates! I don't understand how having a message saying "there have been no updates" is any more helpful than just not saying anything except when there is an update? NO, you are wrong. Check it out, it was in March 2008 it was announced. It is in black and white on the internet.!!! I in fact put my pre-order in during March 2008. Keith. Put Kernow first announcement of D6xx into your search engine {not this forum} and the second entry will show you that it was March 2008. Keith. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Not Captain Kernow Posted June 13, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 13, 2015 Apologies if it was announced before, but there is no way you placed an order in 2008 - orders were only taken from June 2010 Welcome to our newsletter - 9th June 2010D6xx Warship Special Edition OO Gauge NewsWe are pleased to announce that we are now taking orders for our D6xx OO Gauge Warship model. Our Beattie Well Tank and Class 205 Thumper models were laser scanned which saved a considerable amount of time and resulted in them overtaking the D6xx Warship in the development process. With no preserved prototype available the D6xx Warship model has taken longer to develop than we had hoped, but working from original drawings and other reference sources the CAD-CAMS are being produced and will be available shortly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Not Captain Kernow Posted June 13, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 13, 2015 The full announcement is actually on this very site http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/16448-kernow-model-rail-centre-confirm-warship-versions/ Very interesting to look back at what the expectations were at that time and I have no doubt that Kernow are as keen to make up for all that lost time as we are keen to see the models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted June 13, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 13, 2015 (edited) Put Kernow first announcement of D6xx into your search engine {not this forum} and the second entry will show you that it was March 2008. Keith. To set the record straight,I have just logged into my Kernow account history.It shows my order for K 2601-----D601 Ark Royal----as being on 18/06/2010 i.e when they were actually taking orders. And I would remind you that no one keeps their customers better informed than Kernow.Surely most members of this forum know this? Edited June 13, 2015 by Ian Hargrave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted June 13, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 13, 2015 I find it a bit sad. Kernow are taking a big financial risk here. This is not the sort of outfit where if a release tanks then c'est la vie, I suspect the proprietor of Kernow will be in proper trouble, personally. There is no prototype to laser scan, it is a challenging model and they are doing it without the resources of Hornby, Kader etc. If they were charging deposits up front then I would say absolutely that they should offer a delivery date and then meet it, but they haven't taken any money and ultimately the only people that stand to lose out here are Kernow and DJM. These guys do not have the surety of UK plc ultimately under writing them as per Locomotion, they are not Hornby or Bachmann, they are a small shop with an astonishingly ambitious and well thought out program of new tooling for such a small outfit. That should be celebrated I think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 To those of you grizzling, you probably don't know Chris Trerise. I do. Personally. And I can tell you that he is for more frustrated than you have ever been. You haven't even put any money into the project. Chris has. Rather a lot. So why not just wait and see. It'll happen, drekly, and not until then. 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igor Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I find it a bit sad. Kernow are taking a big financial risk here. The reason for taking a financial risk is, I dare to suggest, the prospect of a handsome reward... How do you know it's a big risk? Doubt it's a philanthropic gesture. Big is relative. To those of you grizzling, you probably don't know Chris Trerise. I do. Personally. You haven't even put any money into the project. Chris has. Rather a lot. And, one would realistically assume to get... rather a lot more...back! Why do all the calls for more frequent communication get slapped down with the stock answer of 'you do better' or 'be patient'? If firms are going to whip up a froth storm, at least have the decency of providing honest and frequent updates. No point in being vague or going quiet, since you'll always get found out in the end. ie the thing won't arrive in a reasonable timescale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted June 13, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 13, 2015 (edited) Wow was it that recent Kernow announced they were going to do the D6XXs. Better get a move on with this one then, I think I started it about 15 years ago if not more. Edited June 13, 2015 by Clive Mortimore 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Wow was it that recent Kernow announced they were going to do the D6XXs. Better get a move on with this one then, I think I started it about 15 years ago if not more. 002a.png I reckon that's the ultimate transition era diesel! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith George Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 To set the record straight,I have just logged into my Kernow account history.It shows my order for K 2601-----D601 Ark Royal----as being on 18/06/2010 i.e when they were actually taking orders. And I would remind you that no one keeps their customers better informed than Kernow.Surely most members of this forum know this? To set the record straight, I pre-ordered in March 2008.!! I also seen that statement in 2010 but that was the second time Kernow announced their intention to produce it. You should have it in one of your magazines during 2008. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted June 13, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 13, 2015 The reason for taking a financial risk is, I dare to suggest, the prospect of a handsome reward... How do you know it's a big risk? Doubt it's a philanthropic gesture. Big is relative. And, one would realistically assume to get... rather a lot more...back! Why do all the calls for more frequent communication get slapped down with the stock answer of 'you do better' or 'be patient'? If firms are going to whip up a froth storm, at least have the decency of providing honest and frequent updates. No point in being vague or going quiet, since you'll always get found out in the end. ie the thing won't arrive in a reasonable timescale. Safe to assume you're not in the market for one then ? Oh,is there a rich reward in model railways ? What do you consider to be a "reasonable time scale" ? What do you consider is a "reasonable assumption " ? Are you feeling the pain of being "slapped down " or the discomfiture of being caught out in the teeth of a "froth storm".? And the penalty of being "found out " is ? Why this negativity? Some of us want this model.We trust Kernow.We are prepared to wait for it to arrive.If it's late,then it's just like its prototype.It'll arrive headed by a Bachmann Modified Hall into Plymouth North Road over Dainton Bank. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted June 13, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 13, 2015 To set the record straight, I pre-ordered in March 2008.!! I also seen that statement in 2010 but that was the second time Kernow announced their intention to produce it. You should have it in one of your magazines during 2008. So you should have a record of that on your PC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Not Captain Kernow Posted June 13, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 13, 2015 To set the record straight, I pre-ordered in March 2008.!! I also seen that statement in 2010 but that was the second time Kernow announced their intention to produce it. You should have it in one of your magazines during 2008. Given Kernow only announced the price, liveries and running numbers in 2010, what exactly do you think you ordered in 2008? I would be amazed they managed to take an order from you before they knew what they announced in 2010? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted June 13, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 13, 2015 Wow was it that recent Kernow announced they were going to do the D6XXs. Better get a move on with this one then, I think I started it about 15 years ago if not more. 002a.png No I haven't finished it, this is one I started earlier, back in 1985. While a can appreciate that not everyone can make their own and most are willing to wait for the Kernow model. For those that feel a desperate need to have one, go on have a bash. When the Kernow model arrives it will look better, and it will run better. I have found this out the hard way with, classes 15, 16, 17, 23, 28, 40, 53 (Falcon), 10001, and Lion, all scratchbuilt, and classes 22, 23, 24, 24/1, 25/0, 25/3, 26, 27, 40, 44, 46, and DP2 all conversions. The thing is mine were on the tracks and running before the RTR versions, most I still have and still enjoy running them alongside their RTR cousins. Go on have a bash. Making your own you cannot lose because when the Kernow model jumps out its box you will have two. :locomotive: Whoops I seem to have included DP2, no my short Lima Deltic conversion looks better than Hejan’s DP2……that’s what you get for pre-ordering. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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