Kernow Models D6xx Update

[Bob83a]

if the estimated arrival at Southampton of the final 2 versions was correct or even close then another 1500 models should be due in Camborne shortly. So they will need some space. I am expecting the blue ones tomorrow (packed on Saturday) and therefore expect the final two to be delivered in 10 days or so.

[7013]

Sadly my D601 Ark Royal is already in works (like the real warships really) for checks to the DCC electronics. Hopefully it will be back soon. Looking forward to D603 arriving soon. 

[ian_penfold@btinternet.com]

Hi,

 

I notice a lot of conversations on here regarding DCC chips and the Warships but not that seem to cover the problem I have (I may get to headcodes later!).  I have a pair of Warships and, perhaps naively assumed I could drop a Howes 21 Pin ESU Loksound Decoder into each on the basis that is has the right number of pins and same engines etc.  Notwithstanding that the headcodes do not work (as per comments above) both loco run extremely jerkily.  They are fine in analog, track is clean, both do exactly the same thing.  A comment earlier said:

 

Dapol Imperium has 6 functions, with f3 and f4 being logic

Lenz Silver only has 5 functions

There are 2 different versions of the Bachmann 36-557. The earlier one shouldn't work but the later one should.

ESU Loksound V5 do 2 versions of the 21pin one for each requirement with "58429 LokSound 5 DCC 21MTC" being the correct one

ESU LokPilot has 6 functions; 4 power and 2 logic.

Zimo's MX634 can be changed from on to the other with CV 8

DCC Concepts are all powered functions so wont operate f3 and f4 as logic

 

To be honest it does not make a lot of sense to me other than "ESU Loksound V5 do 2 versions of the 21pin one for each requirement with "58429 LokSound 5 DCC 21MTC" being the correct one"  Howes site does not give any indication of which one they use (I don't think) and neither does the paperwork.

 

Anyone got any ideas or having the same problem?  It felt like an obvious way to go but not so sure now!  Could be an expensive mistake....

 

Cheers in advance

 

Ian

 

[stephennicholson]

52 minutes ago, ian_penfold@btinternet.com said:

Hi,

 

I notice a lot of conversations on here regarding DCC chips and the Warships but not that seem to cover the problem I have (I may get to headcodes later!).  I have a pair of Warships and, perhaps naively assumed I could drop a Howes 21 Pin ESU Loksound Decoder into each on the basis that is has the right number of pins and same engines etc.  Notwithstanding that the headcodes do not work (as per comments above) both loco run extremely jerkily.  They are fine in analog, track is clean, both do exactly the same thing.  A comment earlier said:

 

Dapol Imperium has 6 functions, with f3 and f4 being logic

Lenz Silver only has 5 functions

There are 2 different versions of the Bachmann 36-557. The earlier one shouldn't work but the later one should.

ESU Loksound V5 do 2 versions of the 21pin one for each requirement with "58429 LokSound 5 DCC 21MTC" being the correct one

ESU LokPilot has 6 functions; 4 power and 2 logic.

Zimo's MX634 can be changed from on to the other with CV 8

DCC Concepts are all powered functions so wont operate f3 and f4 as logic

 

To be honest it does not make a lot of sense to me other than "ESU Loksound V5 do 2 versions of the 21pin one for each requirement with "58429 LokSound 5 DCC 21MTC" being the correct one"  Howes site does not give any indication of which one they use (I don't think) and neither does the paperwork.

 

Anyone got any ideas or having the same problem?  It felt like an obvious way to go but not so sure now!  Could be an expensive mistake....

 

Cheers in advance

 

Ian

 

 

I use a Loksound chip for my D601 and it runs perfectly  (sourced from Legobiffoman/dc kits). The box it came in says its a Loksound 5 58419.  Looking at the ESU manual the 58419/29 version seem to be very similar - not really sure what the difference is. There is a third 21 pin MTC variant 58449. One stated difference is:

 

"For Decoder 58449 AUX3, AUX4 @ 21MTC interface are powered outputs.

For Decoder 58419, 58429 AUX3, AUX4 @ 21MTC interface are Logic level outputs"

 

more at http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/instruction-manuals/digital-decoders/

 

Hope this helps

 

 

 

[stephennicholson]

Can anyone tell me if D600s were used on China Clay traffic. I was sure I had seen photos awhile ago - but now cant find any. Beginning to wonder if it was a 6300 I had seen.

[adb968008]

The D600 worksplate was probably overpainted in BR blue when it was moved to the bodyside hence making it harder to see, but it is apparent in that position in several pictures, including Kernows website.

 

Why..

1. the loco was Green, the plate on D600 was in the way of the arrow.

moving the plate before painting makes sense.. otherwise you will have a BR Arrow with the outline of an overpainted diamond under it, where the freshly painted BR blue was patched..

so move the plate, paint the loco.

 

2. It was BR practice to paint over the worksplates in dozens of layers of BR blue.

 

Type “BR blue worksplate” in google you’ll see loads

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/g-w-railwayana-auctions-ltd/catalogue-id-2750489/lot-6251927

 

3. Worksplates are easy to remove the loco was only Blue a few months before being withdrawn, and the plates were on it in the yard, but probably not for long, only later after they were taken was the patch where they were became visible.. so the patch is probably Green, not rust, this supporting the overpainting of the plate, rather than attaching after painting.

 

Remember of BR diesels where plates werent moved from their original locations, when taken by collectors several years later the patch left often wasnt rusty either.

 

ive looked but so far I cannot find a record of NBL 27660 builders plate coming to auction, and a user on here could maybe answer the question, as they indicated previously that they have it... ive reached out to ask them.

Edited May 1, 2019 by adb968008

[Baby Deltic]

My other two finally arrived yesterday and very nice they are too! Might be tempted by a D603 with headcode discs and small yellow panel.

[Geoff Endacott]

11 hours ago, stephennicholson said:

Can anyone tell me if D600s were used on China Clay traffic. I was sure I had seen photos awhile ago - but now cant find any. Beginning to wonder if it was a 6300 I had seen.

 

Yes - frequently.

 

Geoff Endacott

[Pteremy]

17 hours ago, stephennicholson said:

Can anyone tell me if D600s were used on China Clay traffic. I was sure I had seen photos awhile ago - but now cant find any. Beginning to wonder if it was a 6300 I had seen.

 

There is a nice photo of D603 (Gr-SYP) at Fowey with a loaded clay train in September 1963 on page 13 of Modern Locomotives Illustrated 219

[7013]

My loksound V5 decoder supplied by legomanbiffo but not one of their sound files ( Howes I believe) says 58410 on the box but I am not entirely sure that is what is supplied. TBH I am clueless about logic etc. I just expect to plug it in and it will work. In my case it did not but I think it was the pcb in the loco, Kernow are checking it. If the loco is ok I assume the supplied decoder does not work and that will have to go back, all very frustrating when one has waited so long for this loco.

[Roy Langridge]

Fitted a Dapol 21-pin  Imperium to my D600 today and all works exactly as I expected it to, F0 and the way through to F4.

 

Two thing to note:

• The switches on the bottom of mine were both in the off position and had to be turned to "on" before the relevant decoder functions operated.
• The blanking plug had a solder splash across the top of two pins, shorting them. If people have Warships misbehaving on DC, it may be worth taking a look at the blanking plug.

Roy

[adb968008]

I’d just like to update my post of April 23rd..

 

 

A shade after 10 this morning AndyY called me to say Chris had noted my post last week regarding my wanting to swap D603 for D601 and discussed it with him yesterday. Andy indicated Chris said swapping a prepaid order isn't an issue and was keen to resolve it. He mentioned Chris was in Guildford for the opening and so wasnt in ‘his’ town when I called.

 

so that was enough of a hint for me, and I packed up, put my shoes on and headed to Guildford. The shop is a melee today, loads of people there, but after introducing myself to Chris he jumped on it...and...

 

 

Big thanks for Chris giving me time to swap my order and went to get me a D601 from stock to take with me..

I've now a full house, crossing three livery styles and both earlier and later finishes

 

Big thanks and great to meet you, I know you were busy (and the meter ran out on my car otherwise i’d stay longer), but i’ll be back soon... who would think 90 minutes isn't enough in a model shop ?

 

 

Over all i’m really impressed with their detail, weight and speed in my test bench..Tomorrow my 3 will migrate to the loft for their first running trials.

 

Fyi, Chris said he's only one box of D601’s left .. so don't leave it too long.

Edited May 2, 2019 by adb968008

[Baby Deltic]

The only fault I can find with the D600, and it is a minor fault is it appears to have the cab detail of a production class 22 which had a flat desk with a press and rotate power handle instead of the pedestal which the D600's and pilot class 22's had which had a sliding power handle and reverser.. Strangely enough, the Dapol class 22 appears to have the correct detail for a D600 because it appears to be the pilot scheme layout with the pedestal to the driver's right instead of the flat desk of the production class 22's.

[brenn]

Everybody who's got one of these seems to love them and there is a lot of you out there:)...I wonder if Kernow have made a wagon load of cash?

[40 058]

I got my D600 today! 

Ive been looking forward to getting my hands on it for a while and it certainly doesn’t disappoint. Lovely looking models, and they run beautifully straight out the box. Can’t fault it at all.

 

well done Kernow!

[MikeParkin65]

7 hours ago, 7013 said:

My loksound V5 decoder supplied by legomanbiffo but not one of their sound files ( Howes I believe) says 58410 on the box but I am not entirely sure that is what is supplied. TBH I am clueless about logic etc. I just expect to plug it in and it will work. In my case it did not but I think it was the pcb in the loco, Kernow are checking it. If the loco is ok I assume the supplied decoder does not work and that will have to go back, all very frustrating when one has waited so long for this loco.

Have you tried doing the routine where the chip gets chance to as ascertain the motor and drivetrain characteristics and fine tune itself? Haven’t got my notes to hand but fully explained on Charlie’s DCKITS website. 

[royaloak]

1 hour ago, brenn said:

Everybody who's got one of these seems to love them and there is a lot of you out there:)...I wonder if Kernow have made a wagon load of cash?

I hope they have because that is why they are in business, it will also encourage them to do other obscure prototypes in the future.

[7013]

55 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Have you tried doing the routine where the chip gets chance to as ascertain the motor and drivetrain characteristics and fine tune itself? Haven’t got my notes to hand but fully explained on Charlie’s DCKITS website. 

The problem I have is strange (I explained it on the DCC sound thread) but suffice to say the loco shows the same problem with another known good decoder, so I assume it’s a loco PCB fault, time will tell.

[luke_stevens]

On 30/04/2019 at 23:04, ian_penfold@btinternet.com said:

<snip> 

Howes site does not give any indication of which one they use (I don't think) and neither does the paperwork.

<snip>

 

Burred in the Howes website it now says:

 

"LATEST VERSION! These decoders are the latest LOK SOUND 5 58419 decoders from ESU"

 

Luke

 

[7013]

Kernow have checked my Warship over and it is ok, however they are sending me the Loco along with the CVs to programme into my decoder to make it run correctly....here’s hoping.

[stephennicholson]

38 minutes ago, 7013 said:

Kernow have checked my Warship over and it is ok, however they are sending me the Loco along with the CVs to programme into my decoder to make it run correctly....here’s hoping.

Could you share the settings when you get them. I have the same decoder, so would be interested to know the suggestions - not that i have noticed any problems on mine. 

[7013]

This is the email I received from Kernow, very helpful and friendly as always.

 ‘We have now examined the loco and can find no fault with it. We would have replaced it anyway, but as you have fitted detail to it, we will be returning the same loco to you with some instructions on how to get it work properly.

Unfortunately, some sound providers have sold sound decoders for a Warship (presumably a Class 43) which has been set up for running in the Bachmann B-B version. Had they waited to get one of our A-1-A A-1-A locos, they could have configured their decoder to run correctly with the coreless motor therein.

The back-EMF settings have to be just right for the type of motor and clearly, the decoder you have is not set up for our loco.

South West Digital have supplied us with some CVs, which when entered on an ESU chip will see it run correctly.

When you receive your loco back, please set the following CVs accordingly;’

CV2 - 2

CV5 - 255

CV53 - 140

CV54 - 10

CV55 - 10

[rembrow]

Latest Kernow newsletter advises that the final two versions have arrived in the UK and are waiting for Customs clearance.

[MikeParkin65]

7 hours ago, 7013 said:

My loksound V5 decoder supplied by legomanbiffo but not one of their sound files ( Howes I believe) says 58410 on the box but I am not entirely sure that is what is supplied. TBH I am clueless about logic etc. I just expect to plug it in and it will work. In my case it did not but I think it was the pcb in the loco, Kernow are checking it. If the loco is ok I assume the supplied decoder does not work and that will have to go back, all very frustrating when one has waited so long for this loco.

Have you tried doing the routine where the chip gets chance to as ascertain the motor and drivetrain characteristics and fine tune itself? Haven’t got my notes to hand but fully explained on Charlie’s DCKITS website. 

[Baby Deltic]

I mentioned the cab detail on the D600 not looking quite right earlier. There is a prominent BTH control pedestal to the driver's right as can be seen here:

 

 

I cannot see it in the cab of the model.

Edited May 3, 2019 by Baby Deltic