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Kernow Models D6xx Update


Andy Y
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5 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Perhaps I missed it, but does anyone know the maximum permissible motor current? That seems to me to be what the polyswitch is there to limit, irrespective of whether we're suing DC, DCC sound or DCC no sound (another question: does the polyswitch respond differently to DC and DCC current?).

 

But the problem is that the polyswitch is on the input to the loco, not the motor. This means that the additional power for the lighting / sound is not being allowed for. If there is concern, the existing polyswitch could possibly be used on the motor feed, but that would need to be looked at in more detail. 

 

Roy

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21 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Perhaps I missed it, but does anyone know the maximum permissible motor current? That seems to me to be what the polyswitch is there to limit, irrespective of whether we're suing DC, DCC sound or DCC no sound (another question: does the polyswitch respond differently to DC and DCC current?).

My D600 is peaking at 0.24a at 12v on DC, which would suggest 2.88 watts.

 

its certainly not the worst, especially compared to my older stuff, or US models, but for newer stuff its a little on the high side.

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6 hours ago, Bilbo said:

Yippee 12/06/10 is my order date so I can manage a wait of a few more days. To be fair Kernow have been fantastic through the whole process .

Is that when you paid for it? I ask as they are going by the date they were paid for, not ordered.

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12 hours ago, Bob83a said:

it looks like the final two are in Camborne. K2602 D602 Bulldog is shown as in stock, K2603 D603 Conquest is shown as out of stock though.

 

 

Yes indeed. Yesterday's newsletter advised that they had arrived at Cambourne. It said that processing of orders would start on Monday.

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13 hours ago, jsp3970 said:

Is that when you paid for it? I ask as they are going by the date they were paid for, not ordered.

Not that it matters too much after all this time,but where did it say that ?

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I have a perplexing problem and wondered if you could give me any advice.

I put my new Kernow warship class 41 through the customary running in on my DC track test rolling road. half an hour each direction at half speed. It ran perfectly.

I soldered a speaker to an MX644D with stay alive sound chip from Zimo and installed it in the locomotive. Tested it with the body removed on my DCC programming track rolling road. It took the address change and ran it in both directions. All fine.

I use the Dynamis Ultima controller with the handset or Railcontroller on main layout.

Now the issue; if I run the locomotive with the sound and direction turned on it will run quite comfortably at a scale 50mph for approximately a minute and then it stops with a strange regular ticking sound and the direction lights flash at the same rate as the tick. This happens on the mainline as well as the rolling road. It only stops ticking when I turn off the power to the track using the emergency stop button. When the power is restored, after about 10 seconds , the loco runs as it should until it stops again and ticks.

I wonder if the ticking and lights flashing is as a result of the "stay alive" trying to do what it is supposed to?

If I run the loco with lights on and no sound it runs perfectly. 

I've read some of the previous posts on current draw etc and although some of it makes sense I'm really reluctant to mess about with the model, It wasn't inexpensive and should not need me to fix it.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be welcome.

I have written to Kernow asking for help.

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Paul, if you read back over the last few pages starting at page66 you will see another loco with the same problem. Under the decoder is what looks like a capacitor but is in fact an overload fuse that cuts the power if there is too much power draw. It would appear that it is a tad sensitive when locos are drawing quite a lot of current and shuts things down until it cools down. Some people have snipped the fuse out and bridged the gap with a small piece of wire. You have to bridge the gap to complete the circuit. This apparently cures the problem but it is wise to activate overload protection on your decoder, It has been suggested that you can wire in the next size up fuse as an alternative. Hope this helps, reading the last few pages will clarify everything.

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6 hours ago, Bilbo said:

Not that it matters too much after all this time,but where did it say that ?

The communications from Kernow stated that the orders would be processed in the order they were paid for.

 

I ordered mine years ago, but I didn't pay for it until late last year, had to wait a bit for the email to say it was shipped.

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37 minutes ago, 7013 said:

Paul, if you read back over the last few pages starting at page66 you will see another loco with the same problem. Under the decoder is what looks like a capacitor but is in fact an overload fuse that cuts the power if there is too much power draw. It would appear that it is a tad sensitive when locos are drawing quite a lot of current and shuts things down until it cools down. Some people have snipped the fuse out and bridged the gap with a small piece of wire. You have to bridge the gap to complete the circuit. This apparently cures the problem but it is wise to activate overload protection on your decoder, It has been suggested that you can wire in the next size up fuse as an alternative. Hope this helps, reading the last few pages will clarify everything.

Thanks very much, I sent forum discussion to Youchoos (supplier  of my Zimo decoder) and they immediately responded that the Zimo decoder automatically have overload protection switched on. I think I will wait to do any snipping until I hear back from Kernow models.

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Paul, I have a Loksound V5 in mine and had to tune it to the coreless motor, now everything works superbly without the snipping. Hopefully Kernow will be able to send you the CV settings for the Zimo which will hopefully cure the problem without having to have the snip!

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On 05/05/2019 at 10:15, St Enodoc said:

I've fitted a TCS EU 621 to D601. All is good so far although I have still to tune the inertia a little. Once I've got it running the way I want I'll try to remember to post the settings here.

I haven't had a chance to tune the inertia/momentum yet but I thought I'd post my current settings for now. Everything, other than the loco number (obviously) and the forward reverse direction that had to be changed to get A end to be the Forward end, is still set to factory defaults except for CV 3 Accel 1 Rate and CV 4 Decel 1 Rate which I have changed from the default of 0 to 2 in each case. These are the ones that I need to play with a bit more.

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15 hours ago, paulstephens said:

Thanks very much, I sent forum discussion to Youchoos (supplier  of my Zimo decoder) and they immediately responded that the Zimo decoder automatically have overload protection switched on. I think I will wait to do any snipping until I hear back from Kernow models.

The only thing to be aware of is that the inline fuse (which is what cuts out) is likely to trip before the Zimo decoder. It is probably that you loco will keep tripping out until the fuse is removed and replaced as indicated in previous posts.

Luke

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5 hours ago, luke_stevens said:

The only thing to be aware of is that the inline fuse (which is what cuts out) is likely to trip before the Zimo decoder. It is probably that you loco will keep tripping out until the fuse is removed and replaced as indicated in previous posts.

Luke

 

I imagine that turning the volume right down will stop tripping in the short term. 

 

Roy

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1 hour ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

I imagine that turning the volume right down will stop tripping in the short term. 

 

Roy

Even this doesn't work. The only solution without undergoing surgery right now is to turn off the sound. I also changed cvs 9 and 56 to reflect coreless motors with no effect. The fuse still trips. I await a response from the people at Kernows. 

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1 minute ago, paulstephens said:

Even this doesn't work. The only solution without undergoing surgery right now is to turn off the sound. I also changed cvs 9 and 56 to reflect coreless motors with no effect. The fuse still trips. I await a response from the people at Kernows. 

Sad to hear that.

Hopefully Kernow will refer you back to this discussion!

Does turning the lights off make any difference? It sounds like you have a motor drawing current at the top limit but a fuse tripping at the bottom limit.

Good luck.

Luke

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On ‎11‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 18:53, paulstephens said:

I have a perplexing problem and wondered if you could give me any advice.

I put my new Kernow warship class 41 through the customary running in on my DC track test rolling road. half an hour each direction at half speed. It ran perfectly.

I soldered a speaker to an MX644D with stay alive sound chip from Zimo and installed it in the locomotive. Tested it with the body removed on my DCC programming track rolling road. It took the address change and ran it in both directions. All fine.

I use the Dynamis Ultima controller with the handset or Railcontroller on main layout.

Now the issue; if I run the locomotive with the sound and direction turned on it will run quite comfortably at a scale 50mph for approximately a minute and then it stops with a strange regular ticking sound and the direction lights flash at the same rate as the tick. This happens on the mainline as well as the rolling road. It only stops ticking when I turn off the power to the track using the emergency stop button. When the power is restored, after about 10 seconds , the loco runs as it should until it stops again and ticks.

I wonder if the ticking and lights flashing is as a result of the "stay alive" trying to do what it is supposed to?

If I run the loco with lights on and no sound it runs perfectly. 

I've read some of the previous posts on current draw etc and although some of it makes sense I'm really reluctant to mess about with the model, It wasn't inexpensive and should not need me to fix it.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be welcome.

I have written to Kernow asking for help.

Paul, I  know others have said this but think surgery will be the only answer.  I take your point about the fact it should not be necessary but took the snippers and soldering iron to my pair late last week and they have been running around on 12 coach trains, engines blaring, over the weekend....  still got to get the headcodes working but think this will be simpler as Howes are helping me out on that one as they supplier the original LocSound chips.

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13 hours ago, paulstephens said:

Even this doesn't work. The only solution without undergoing surgery right now is to turn off the sound. I also changed cvs 9 and 56 to reflect coreless motors with no effect. The fuse still trips. I await a response from the people at Kernows. 

I and a number of others discovered the problem last week and found that the only way at present to stop the loco from grinding to a halt after about 10 or so minutes was to bridge the re-settable fuse and take it out of the equation altogether. I have been in contact with Kernow over this via several lengthy e-mails and their response so far is non-committal ( mainly because the boss was in Guildford for the opening of their new shop) other than at present they are in dialogue with the factory regarding the issue. It is clear that there is a problem here which needs to be rectified and in the meantime the only way to stop these locos from dying after a few minutes is to bridge the fuse. The only other question over doing this is that it would probably invalidate the guarantee and that is something else which Kernow have said to me that they are investigating. My D600 has been running faultlessly ever since I bridged the fuse. I cannot really envisage anything  is likely to overload either the motor or the decoder with the fuse bridged if it is run normally and at a realistic speed.

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28 minutes ago, metadyneman said:

I and a number of others discovered the problem last week and found that the only way at present to stop the loco from grinding to a halt after about 10 or so minutes was to bridge the re-settable fuse and take it out of the equation altogether. I have been in contact with Kernow over this via several lengthy e-mails and their response so far is non-committal ( mainly because the boss was in Guildford for the opening of their new shop) other than at present they are in dialogue with the factory regarding the issue. It is clear that there is a problem here which needs to be rectified and in the meantime the only way to stop these locos from dying after a few minutes is to bridge the fuse. The only other question over doing this is that it would probably invalidate the guarantee and that is something else which Kernow have said to me that they are investigating. My D600 has been running faultlessly ever since I bridged the fuse. I cannot really envisage anything  is likely to overload either the motor or the decoder with the fuse bridged if it is run normally and at a realistic speed.

 

Is there any real reason to remove the fuse?

 

Could the same effect be achieved by soldering, or even winding, some bare wire around the two connections of the fuse?

 

In the latter case, the bridging would be easily removeable should there ever be the need to do so.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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I also think there should be a bit of perspective on this in that of the hundreds of locos that have gone out only a few have had problems. However when the problem occurs with one that you have purchased it is disappointing. As I have said before changing the CVs and tuning my decoder to the motor has produced a model that runs faultlessly thus far and shows no sign of current overload. I like the idea of perhaps bridging the two fuse terminals without removing the fuse, this could be reversed if needed, or if the loco had to be returned to Kernow.

Kernow are one of the best independents and have fantastic customer service, it is not their fault this problem occurred and they are working to sort it out. So I would say let’s not get into slagging Kernow off, let’s try and support them to rectify the problem locos by giving them as much info as possible.

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1 hour ago, 7013 said:

I also think there should be a bit of perspective on this in that of the hundreds of locos that have gone out only a few have had problems. However when the problem occurs with one that you have purchased it is disappointing. As I have said before changing the CVs and tuning my decoder to the motor has produced a model that runs faultlessly thus far and shows no sign of current overload. I like the idea of perhaps bridging the two fuse terminals without removing the fuse, this could be reversed if needed, or if the loco had to be returned to Kernow.

Kernow are one of the best independents and have fantastic customer service, it is not their fault this problem occurred and they are working to sort it out. So I would say let’s not get into slagging Kernow off, let’s try and support them to rectify the problem locos by giving them as much info as possible.

With respect, I don't think anyone has "slagged" Kernow Models off on this thread or seems likely to in the future, in fact they (Kernow) have been most helpful with trying to understand the fault and work out a solution which for them (and ultimately us) won't invalidate the guarantee. The fact that they have gone back to the factory over this, just shows their commitment to resolving the situation as quickly as possible. I suspect that hundreds of models are not suffering the same problem because they aren't run as I do mine with 8 or 9 Bachmann coaches round a garden railway with a constant running session sometimes lasting over an hour. I will say that I am delighted with my D600 now that it works properly and would bet on the vast majority of others being just as satisfied.

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Kier Hardy (formerly Wibble) has posted a nice photo of a couple of D6xx's running on Hornsey Broadway, with a some brief comments about detailing. No doubt the next update of Emgauge70s will have more on them.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/7989-hornsey-broadway/&do=findComment&comment=3553145


Jamie

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