Kernow Models D6xx Update

[Gwiwer]

On 23/12/2020 at 18:51, andyman7 said:

I have a feeling that the stock levels don't neccessarily represent the full number on hand, possibly to encourage people who are interested to actually buy rather than hold off because they think there are loads left. Maybe it's the number left in the current opened box....?

Bear in mind that the system operates in real time but has to account for stock held across two retail outlets and a very active online presence. 
 

Stock is updated as orders are placed and I believe items are counted as they go into the virtual basket.  So the stock level displayed may differ between customers at almost the same moment in time.  Likewise if a basket is emptied the stock level will revert to account for that. 

It is possible (though not during Covid restrictions) that the last of an item is picked from the shelf by a customer but not paid for immediately while they continue browsing which can theoretically result in an online purchase taking place in the interim but no stock remains. This is a limitation of any system which has to account for both online and “live” shopping. 
 

In my experience the advertised stock level is what remains available at Camborne. The website refers to separate links for “Guildford stock level”. Online orders are all handled via Camborne. 
 

 

[Geoff Endacott]

3 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

Online orders are all handled via Camborne. 

...except on Wednesdays.

 

Geoff Endacott

[Graham_Muz]

22 minutes ago, Geoff Endacott said:

...except on Wednesdays.

 

Geoff Endacott

...except that’s untrue. 

[Roy Langridge]

Is anybody able to confirm whether the resettable fuse was changed in the latest batch please? This is the component that caused problems when running with sound.

 

My weathered D601 has it the other way up to my other two, so I am unable to see the part number to see if it was changed.

Thanks in advance,

Roy

[Kernow MRC]

2 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

Is anybody able to confirm whether the resettable fuse was changed in the latest batch please? This is the component that caused problems when running with sound.

 

My weathered D601 has it the other way up to my other two, so I am unable to see the part number to see if it was changed.

Thanks in advance,

Roy

 

Although the particular fuse affected only very small number of model owners reported to us,  we can confirm that the fuse has been changed for the latest batch.

[stephennicholson]

49 minutes ago, Kernow MRC said:

Although the particular fuse affected only very small number of model owners reported to us,

Is there a Kernow approved method to resolve this. I believe I have an affected loco, but its only a minor inconvenience to me - so not done anything about it.

[Geoff Endacott]

On 10/01/2021 at 16:16, Graham_Muz said:

...except that’s untrue. 

 

Someone doesn't know about Jethro.

 

Geoff Endacott

[Graham_Muz]

17 minutes ago, Geoff Endacott said:

 

Someone doesn't know about Jethro.

Geoff Endacott

 

Some might, but your post whatever the humorous intent, implied that KMRC was not open on Wednesdays which is both untrue and potentially not good for the business. 

[The Stationmaster]

16 hours ago, Graham_Muz said:

 

Some might, but your post whatever the humorous intent, implied that KMRC was not open on Wednesdays which is both untrue and potentially not good for the business. 

And as the website makes absolutely clear - right at the top of the first page -

 

[Roy Langridge]

On 12/01/2021 at 13:48, stephennicholson said:

Is there a Kernow approved method to resolve this. I believe I have an affected loco, but its only a minor inconvenience to me - so not done anything about it.

 

As a trained electronics engineer, I am happy to say all models will be affected if they are sound equipped and try to draw the maximum power needed for sound, motion and lights - the total of that exceeds the spec of the original resettable fuse.

 

When Kernow say that "affected only very small number of model owners reported to us", I believe that only a few people were affected, not a few models - I assume the vast majority were not sound fitted.

 

On my original two I have just bridged the fuse with a link and ensured that overload protection is enabled on the decoders. I didn't even use solder, just wrapped the trimmed leg of a resistor tightly around the legs of the fuse and then wrapped a bit of Kapton tape around it. That way it is entirely reversible.

Roy

Edited January 13, 2021 by Roy Langridge
Typo

[stephennicholson]

Just now, Roy Langridge said:

 

As a trained electronics engineer, I am happy to say all models will be affected if they are sound equipped and try to draw the maximum power needed for sound, motion and lights - the total of that exceeds the spec of the original resettable fuse.

 

When Kernow say that "affected only very small number of model owners reported to us", I believe that only a few people were affected, not a few models - I assume the vast majority were not sound fitted.

 

On my original two I have just bridged the fuse with a link and ensured that overload protection is enabled on the decoders. I didn't even use solder, just wrapped the trimmed leg of a resistor tightly around the legs of the fuse and then wrapped a but of Kapton tape around it. That way it is entirely reversible.

Roy

 

Thanks, mine is fitted with a Loksound - which is explains why I occasionally experience the issue. As Kernow have acknowledged the issue by changing the subsequent models it would be good to have their advice on approved resolutions for those that need it on earlier ones.@Kernow MRC

[Tankerman]

On 10/01/2021 at 09:57, SirNigel4498 said:

Starting off the new year with a new model added to my fleet. Pictured below is my model of D604 Cossack.  Soon to have Details added and weathering applied to it and ultimately, sound.  Currently I just have a standard 21 pin decoder installed so I can run it in the meantime until I fit sound.

 

On 10/01/2021 at 09:57, SirNigel4498 said:

Starting off the new year with a new model added to my fleet. Pictured below is my model of D604 Cossack.  Soon to have Details added and weathering applied to it and ultimately, sound.  Currently I just have a standard 21 pin decoder installed so I can run it in the meantime until I fit sound.

 

May I ask which Kadee coupler you have used?

[MG 7305]

The NEM pocket is very close to the front of the model so I used Kadee No 17, the shortest NEM pocket one.   It is still too far out for my needs (I aim to have the back face of the moveable knuckle level with the front of the buffers) but there you are.

[SirNigel4498]

On 18/01/2021 at 07:45, Tankerman said:

 

 

May I ask which Kadee coupler you have used?

I used the number 17 kadees, although even these are too long. However they are sufficient and don't leave an unreasonable gap between loco and rolling stock.  I might look into a closer coupling option in the future, but for now, this works well.

[Dogmatix]

On 22/01/2021 at 01:26, SirNigel4498 said:

I used the number 17 kadees, although even these are too long. However they are sufficient and don't leave an unreasonable gap between loco and rolling stock.  I might look into a closer coupling option in the future, but for now, this works well.

 

The gap in you picture is what I would call an unreasonable gap. It is still a puzzle to me that close-coupling mechanisms have been the norm on continental HO models for decades, but are still rarely found on British OO gauge locomotives and (albeit less so) on rolling stock (and where it is found, it is sometimes done badly, with the NEM pockets mis-placed or too loose).

 

With Kernow's Warship, not only is close coupling not fitted, but the coupling pocket is mounted too far out. Unfortunately, the construction is such that it is pretty much impossible to fit close coupling mechanics.

 

The problem is exacerbated on this model because the bogie pivots are not central in the normal manner, but offset about a centimetre towards the body centre. This means that the nose has much more sideplay on curves than normal. I don't know it this is prototypical, or if Kernow has some other reason for doing so. The extra sideplay not only looks awful, but could also cause problems on some track layouts, as the locomotive could foul tunnel mouths, bridges, platform ends etc. - it does on parts of mine. The sideplay might also explain the need for a longer coupling gap.

It is a fine looking model, but this ship has, in my view, been spoiled by the bogie pivot and coupling arrangements. I'm afraid that I am less than delighted with mine, and am considering selling it.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Dogmatix

[Crepello]

It's a pity that Dapol don't introduce their magnetic and plain buckeyes for OO as well as N; I would have thought that there'd be a big market, especially as you don't need magnetics for all your stock if you run fixed formations or don't need to shunt much.

[woodenhead]

4 minutes ago, Crepello said:

It's a pity that Dapol don't introduce their magnetic and plain buckeyes for OO as well as N; I would have thought that there'd be a big market, especially as you don't need magnetics for all your stock if you run fixed formations or don't need to shunt much.

Probably because there is already an established brand supplying them - Kadee

 

In N it was Microtrains, but harder to find, Bachmann also did one but similarly hard to find and I don't think either did an NEM compatible version, hence Dapol had a market to go at. 

[Gwiwer]

3 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

I don't know it this is prototypical, or if Kernow has some other reason for doing so.

Not prototypical to the best of my knowledge.  Perhaps a fair attempt at getting a set-up where reasonably close coupling is possible but allowing for train-set curves as used by at least some of the customers for these locos.  

 

I tried Hunt couplers for a closer connection.  Fine on straights and easier curves but as they rely on magnetic attraction they can be pulled apart by drag and coupler swing on the sharpest of corners.  

 

I don't personally have an issue with the 600's bogie swing allowing for the limitations of scale modelling.  If anything the even longer bogies of the Bulleid diesels looks worse because of necessity the bogie frame and wheel are all revealed.  Yet they too cope with first radius curves if taken with care which is far and away beyond what the prototype could have managed.  

[Dogmatix]

1 hour ago, Gwiwer said:

Perhaps a fair attempt at getting a set-up where reasonably close coupling is possible but allowing for train-set curves as used by at least some of the customers for these locos. 

I'm afraid that I cannot agree. Kernow have not achieved reasonable close coupling here, despite it being perfectly possible to do so. As far as I am concerned, "reasonable close coupling" is a buffer or corridor gap of no more than 1mm on the straight.

 

D604 with Bachmann Mk1. Standard Roco coupler in the locomotive, long-shanked Roco coupler (as supplied by and for Hornby) in the Mk1 (compensating for the too-far-inward location of the pocket). This is not what I call close coupling:

 

For comparison: the very same coach with a Hornby Cl.50, which comes fitted with close-coupling mechanics. The Cl.50 is longer than the D600 and also has six axles. Now, this is close coupling:

 

Thanks to the close-coupling mechanisms in both vehicles and the rigid coupling formed by the Roco couplers, the coupling extends in curves, thus preventing buffer locking. And it works. So if Hornby can do it, why can't Kernow?

 

The two models from underneath:

 

This shows how the pocket on the D600 (left) sticks out far too far, and how it is quite possible to include a close coupling mechanism into a long 6-axle British outline OO gauge model (right). one in which the first axle is even closer to the end than on the D600.

 

The D600 model also sits too high.

 

 

 

 

[MikeParkin65]

8 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

It is a fine looking model, but this ship has, in my view, been spoiled by the bogie pivot and coupling arrangements. I'm afraid that I am less than delighted with mine, and am considering selling it.

Agree and mine is currently sat on the ‘cripples’ siding for the very same reason. I can’t understand why they couldn’t use the same coupling as the otherwise similarly engineered Class 21/29. 

[MG 7305]

It is what it is.  One could always use a scalpel to shorten the NEM pocket and the coupling shank and and then use Loctite all plastics or equivalent.  Maybe I am seeker of solutions rather than problems?  I have 2 D6xx and it works for me.

[Kaput]

1 hour ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Agree and mine is currently sat on the ‘cripples’ siding for the very same reason. I can’t understand why they couldn’t use the same coupling as the otherwise similarly engineered Class 21/29. 

 

Other than sticking out a bit further the coupler on the D600 looks pretty much the same as the one on a Class 29

[MikeParkin65]

11 minutes ago, MG 7305 said:

It is what it is.  One could always use a scalpel to shorten the NEM pocket and the coupling shank and and then use Loctite all plastics or equivalent.  Maybe I am seeker of solutions rather than problems?  I have 2 D6xx and it works for me.

 

2 minutes ago, Kaput said:

 

Other than sticking out a bit further the coupler on the D600 looks pretty much the same as the one on a Class 29

Yes I think we can both see this. Point is with it being such an easy fix it might have been nice for the manufacturer to have done it in the first place. 

[Dogmatix]

41 minutes ago, MG 7305 said:

One could always use a scalpel to shorten the NEM pocket and the coupling shank and and then use Loctite all plastics or equivalent. 

I thought of that, but firstly I'd be worried that the extra sideplay caused by the displaced bogie pivot would cause buffer locking if the coupling were shortened; secondly, glueing the coupler in makes it very difficult to replace if damaged (probably have to replace the whole pocket); and thirdly, cutting it about would reduce the resale value.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Dogmatix

[Ian J.]

I find these sprung close coupling mechanisms have a habit of causing derailments when involved on heavier long trains. I intend to remove them all from my stock and replace with static body mounted couplings as soon as practically possible. However, I am also running to a 32 inch minimum radius curve, so that helps in closing up the gaps, be it between coaches/wagons or loco and coaches/wagons.