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Andy Y

Kernow Models D6xx Update

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With hindsight, way back in April 1977 i should have paid more attention to the 21 and D600 there in Dai's storage area.

 

Indeed i walked past both of them, while gazing forlornly at the slowly rusting hulks of NM, WC, BOB, and assorted GWR loco's. I remember them there of course as they looked so out of place amongst the long rows stretching round the curve from the Barry Island overbridge.

 

No camera then for me as i was only 12 and on my first HST ride from Maidenhead of all places, change at Cardiff. 

Still i count myself lucky that although i never saw (to the best of my memory) the 52's in action i did see the long sad line ups of them at Swindon while passing by from the comfort of a MK3 coach. Not the same though eh? 

 

Shame not one got saved (not even a cab) that late in the day, when they got cut.

Do You mean this one?

post-6929-0-87977800-1439554434_thumb.jpg

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It's good to see some more progress with this model.

 

Colin

It's good to see some more progress with this model.

 

Colin

indeed, good to see progress. So, complete guess, but another 18 months, early 2017 then?

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I'd guess late 2016 if the latest CAD CAMs are OK and the various samples come up well first time with only minor rectification (if any) needed.  Still under three years from the re-launch with DJ Models and therefore not bad for items for which no prototype exists for scanning and for which extensive research had to be done via drawings and photographs.  I'll grant that some of that was done for the originally-commissioned manufacturer and pre-dates the relaunch.

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I e-mailed Chris Trerise yesterday, concerning the latest Cad images, in relation to the positioning of the scavenger fans and grilles, as they appear to be still positioned centrally on the roofline. It's difficult to be sure due to the tipped nature of the images shown, but if you compare the apparent distance from the edge of each fan grille to the edge of the roofline at the body side,they appear to be the same distance for the 2 fan grilles, whereas one should be a shorter distance, this also shows when checking their position against the longitudinal braces and steam boiler port where they appear to be in line with these roof central components. As was shown earlier in this thread, there is a photo of D602 and D603 overhead at Penzance, which clearly shows the grilles and fans as off centre, similar to the Hymeks and Class 22s, to the right at the facing cab end and off centre to the left on the distant cab end.

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I too emailed Kernow about the off-set nature of the scavenger fans, and this morning Chris Trerise replied saying that they are aware of this, they have the required dimensions, and the change was requested at the previous iteration of the CADs. It will also be on the next list of changes being sent to China. 

 

So, good news.

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I too emailed Kernow about the off-set nature of the scavenger fans, and this morning Chris Trerise replied saying that they are aware of this, they have the required dimensions, and the change was requested at the previous iteration of the CADs. It will also be on the next list of changes being sent to China. 

 

So, good news.

Adrian, you beat me to it, spent all day cutting and fitting skirting boards, so this is the first chance to get onto RMweb. Chris advised that this was part of the first list of amendments, but was missed by China when preparing the second set of Cads. The good news is that Chris advised this is the biggest correction to be made, so far the others are minor and are mainly related to rivet detail. So with a fair wind the D600s roof fans will be correctly off centre

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It's new.  Note the fan grilles are now correctly off-centre.  I can't see anything amiss with those but I don't have any of a set of callipers, time to go through with a tooth comb nor the original research to refer to.

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I'm not going order one of these, not my cup of tea at all, but ...

 

With the truly extravagant delays in this project I do wonder when design and production of RTR models are going to be repatriated. There must be significant reputational damage to a company when matters get this far.

 

Regards

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I ordered one of these back in July 2010. Yes, I'm disappointed it's not yet arrived, but I think Kernow have kept us informed of the particular reasons for the delay and, so far as they can, of the reasons for changing their chosen manufacturer. They have done all they could to keep us updated on progress, and if anyone's reputation is damaged, I don't really think it is Kernow's or DJM's.

 

Colin

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I'm not going order one of these, not my cup of tea at all, but ...

 

With the truly extravagant delays in this project I do wonder when design and production of RTR models are going to be repatriated. There must be significant reputational damage to a company when matters get this far.

 

Regards

I would imagine, sadly, that repatriation is unlikely because of the enormously increased cost. Perhaps it's already too late because the necessary skills have been lost. It has happened in other areas of industry.

 

Bachmann, Hornby, Dapol and Heljan have all suffered major delays in getting models produced, so perhaps all have suffered roughly equal reputaional damage. I can't say I'm happy to have to wait so long (my cup of tea is stone cold) but better late than never.

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I would imagine, sadly, that repatriation is unlikely because of the enormously increased cost. Perhaps it's already too late because the necessary skills have been lost. It has happened in other areas of industry.

 

Bachmann, Hornby, Dapol and Heljan have all suffered major delays in getting models produced, so perhaps all have suffered roughly equal reputaional damage. I can't say I'm happy to have to wait so long (my cup of tea is stone cold) but better late than never.

I'm not sure if it can really be called 'reputational damage' if you bother to find out even a little about the causes.  Simple problem is that these various names - in fact virtually all of the r-t-r 'manufacturers' based n the UK - are hostage to events in a large country on the other side of the world and to market forces and social change happening in that country.  Know about/understand even what we are aware of from all of that and it is easy to understand why delays can occur.

 

But even in the best regulated and most lucky of circumstances the timescale between starting a project (not necessarily coincident with the date it is first announced) and actually having the end result in your grubby mitts is going to be around 18 months to 2 years, assuming everything goes absolutely right.  If you add to that the preliminary research time (which is about as long as a piece of very stretchy elastic) the whole timescale can be become much longer again - particularly if it is hard/impossible to obtain information.  Chuck in a 'manufacturer' who takes on a commission and then does next to nothing for a year or more and timescales from announcement to release can get even longer.

 

However all of this also comes with distinct advantages.  Clearly the world is not going to stop rotating if development takes longer and equally lives are neither going to be lost or ruined if discretionary purchases don't arrive when expected.  But - rather usefully to many of us - we happen to get longer to save up for the whatever by the time it actually does arrive.

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I'm not sure if it can really be called 'reputational damage' if you bother to find out even a little about the causes.  Simple problem is that these various names - in fact virtually all of the r-t-r 'manufacturers' based n the UK - are hostage to events in a large country on the other side of the world and to market forces and social change happening in that country.  Know about/understand even what we are aware of from all of that and it is easy to understand why delays can occur.

 

But even in the best regulated and most lucky of circumstances the timescale between starting a project (not necessarily coincident with the date it is first announced) and actually having the end result in your grubby mitts is going to be around 18 months to 2 years, assuming everything goes absolutely right.  If you add to that the preliminary research time (which is about as long as a piece of very stretchy elastic) the whole timescale can be become much longer again - particularly if it is hard/impossible to obtain information.  Chuck in a 'manufacturer' who takes on a commission and then does next to nothing for a year or more and timescales from announcement to release can get even longer.

 

However all of this also comes with distinct advantages.  Clearly the world is not going to stop rotating if development takes longer and equally lives are neither going to be lost or ruined if discretionary purchases don't arrive when expected.  But - rather usefully to many of us - we happen to get longer to save up for the whatever by the time it actually does arrive.

Good points well made - especially the last one. If everything arrived together, a lot of hard choices would have to be made.

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'Reputational Risk' - pretty harsh!

 

Via their newsletter and responded at shows and to emails (I know as I have done this), Kermow have explained why the development of the model has taken so long. Do you think that they wanted it like this?

 

They had the sense, faced with the difficulties in getting the shape right, to get Fred to make one of his amazingly well engineered Gauge 1 models to supply to the Chinese. How many other manufacturers would make this investment to get a model right!

 

Rant over,

 

Andrew

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If there is any "reputational risk" it is surely to the manufacturer who accepted the original commission and did next to nothing with it (and others) for a couple of years. 

 

Not one of us has paid a single penny for these locos yet.  But Kernow MRC has surely had to stump up a very significant amount of dosh to get the commission under way, to have the large-scale model made and to then re-commission elsewhere.  Commercial agreements are not for these forums but I suspect there might also be furthers costs in trying to recoup monies and research lodged with that original manufacturer.

 

No-one would be more keen to get these items to market, get them sold and recover their investment than the team at Camborne.  To have financial risk of this size exposed for so long and perhaps accruing interest could potentially place more than just the D6xx project in jeopardy.

 

The "truly extravagant delays" have been well explained as and when there is something to say; while they are a source of frustration the tone of one post here strikes me as somewhat disingenuous when we have been kept in the picture and the delays are not of the commissioning retailer's nor of the Chinese' making.

Edited by Gwiwer
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Just a point to consider. Even those who do possess the modelling skills to put together a kit often take years to do so....

 

Personally, I think hats off to kernow and others who are prepared to take these commercial risks. I hope it pays off for them as it's the best chance of encouraging them and others to undertake some of the more 'niche' locos beloved of the wish lists...

Edited by Clearwater

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Agreed - amongst many, many, unfinished projects - I have a scratch-built palbrick that was largely put together whilst watching the Chicago Bears win the 1986 SuperBowl - and it still isn't finished.

 

The blue Class 205 was worth the wait - this will be too

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Anyone have any updates on these models, please?

 

 

Any and all updates will be posted first by Kernow MRC in their newsletter and probably also on their Facebook feed.  I suggest you subscribe to both if you don't already.  They are coming.  The lack of action by the originally-commissioned manufacturer caused a four-year delay on top of the normal production process.  

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I wonder if Kernow and/or DJM might give us some sort of update as to the progress on this project?   Is it still alive?

 

I've just searched the Kernow website and also gone back on the Kernow Facebook page for over a year and I can find no mention of it.

 

I have now subscribed to the Kernow  newsletter as suggested above - but there seems to be no way to look at back issues so I may have missed some announcements - can anyone who gets this newsletter comment what the latest news is for those of us who may have missed it?

 

I understand that DJM are now doing this for Kernow - and I see lots of news about new DJM projects for class 86 and 87 as well as great progress on class 71 and 74, but the poor old D6xx Warship seems to have been left out in the cold.

 

I understand the reasons for the delays, but just to keep all of us who have placed orders (and others who might be tempted to do so) interested, it would be nice to see some updates on progress from time to time, like we do for other Kernow projects such as the new TC set.

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I wonder if Kernow and/or DJM might give us some sort of update as to the progress on this project?   Is it still alive?

 

I've just searched the Kernow website and also gone back on the Kernow Facebook page for over a year and I can find no mention of it.

 

I have now subscribed to the Kernow  newsletter as suggested above - but there seems to be no way to look at back issues so I may have missed some announcements - can anyone who gets this newsletter comment what the latest news is for those of us who may have missed it?

 

I understand that DJM are now doing this for Kernow - and I see lots of news about new DJM projects for class 86 and 87 as well as great progress on class 71 and 74, but the poor old D6xx Warship seems to have been left out in the cold.

 

I understand the reasons for the delays, but just to keep all of us who have placed orders (and others who might be tempted to do so) interested, it would be nice to see some updates on progress from time to time, like we do for other Kernow projects such as the new TC set.

 

You're not looking hard enough.

 

From the Kernow site re Warship Limited Editions:

 

"The CADs have been checked and feedback to correct some minor issues has been given to the factory, with updated CADs received on 14th August 2015.  We have been working on various iterations of CADs with the last set of feedback sent at the end of July 2016.  The issues are all very minor but we feel it is important to get the minor details correct.  As soon as these changes are completed we expect to be able to move to tooling."

Edited by cary hill
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Aha - I had indeed missed that little sentence deep in the web page - my apologies.  Great news that the project is progressing.

 

It would also be great if, when they are ready, Kernow could post the latest CAD iterations here so that the various experts on RMweb can help with feedback, as happens with the DJM own brand models.

 

Looking forward to seeing this one come to fruition.....

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It would also be great if, when they are ready, Kernow could post the latest CAD iterations here so that the various experts on RMweb can help with feedback, as happens with the DJM own brand models.

 

 

I thought Bachmann where doing these?

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