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Andy Y

Kernow Models D6xx Update

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I very much doubt it, dignity and respect etc, it isnt the done thing to rat on your previous employer whether you left under good or bad circumstances, it just isnt done by somebody who has morals! 

Edited by Andy Y

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Are you serious? Would you really expect a man in business to rat on his former employer in a public forum? I wouldn't. 

 

 

I very much doubt it, dignity and respect etc, it isnt the done thing to rat on your previous employer whether you left under good or bad circumstances, it just isnt done by somebody who has morals! 

 

That and he is likely bound by NDAs  anyhow  regardless.

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Warley is just around the corner.  Let's see if those good folk from Camborne offer any nice surprises.

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I remember seeing one of the D600s at Penzance in their Cornwall days, not sure when, I remember being disappointed that it was not a D800 or D1000 so I want a 1950s  Green one for my 1957-62 WR stud, but it is getting beyond a joke waiting since 2012.

 

I suspect the real reason for the non appearance is the relative unpopularity of the D600s, added to the frequent noticeable changes to appearance. Pre mid 62 Green (King Era) 62-64 Green with yellow panels, 64 on Green with headcode boxes etc without even going to blue.

 

Its not exactly an 02 used widely on Southern Branches, or a cuddly little Beattie or even an Adams radial with potential for "Light Railway" operation and its hardly going to fit a Micro Layout so sales prospects must be on the dodgy side of dire.

 

I guess Kernow did a lot of work creating a market for Heljan's 1361/1366 by procrastinating (or is the 1366 a joint Kernow / Heljan production?) so possibly they have wasted a lot of  CAD investment.

 

The Heljan 1361/1366 and Hornby Adams are worrying if it is big boys trying to stifle small rivals.  Hopefully the small manufacturers can hit back by higher quality, split axle bogie pickups, enough weight to enable the loco to pull a train (Thinking Hornby's sick joke of a King here) and other things like enough flange depth to let the train stay on the track (Thank you Oxford)

 

I will call in at Kernow next week.  I hope they are not quite so rude to their other customers as they were last time I called.  They were not rude to me personally but made me feel very uncomfortable.

Edited by DavidCBroad

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The D6xx were by no means confined to the Cornish main line and could be found, albeit briefly as their lives were short, across the region at times.  They are perhaps best remembered as Cornish engines because they were latterly (supposed to be) confined there owing to their unreliability and the small number of them.  It made some sense to not require spares for five locos at every depot and six-monthly driver refreshers for a type they probably would not encounter.  

 

How popular the models might be is known only to Kernow MRC based on their order book.  The original announcement stated there would be 750 of each, so 3750 give or take a few to fill boxes and act as spares.  The Dapol class 22 has proven popular.  Although a larger class and more widespread for a few more years they too were thought of as "West of England" locos and were typically found west of Bristol.  But again they could turn up anywhere and had daily turns to and around London.  I don't know the sales figures of course but the initial batches sold out, the re-runs have all but sold out and so have the Kernow MRC-commissioned specials.  The re-run with headcode discs instead of panels has also apparently sold out.  Those would account for many thousands of locos, surely.  3750 D6xx should sell through well enough and with quite a boost once they finally arrive.

 

Personally I have never found KMRC staff to be anything but friendly and polite though there we are all different and anyone can have a bad day.  They will be running off their feet right now to get the MR USA tanks out which would never excuse rudeness but may mean there is no time for a friendly chat.

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Hi Keith

 

Is this one model so important? It was a class with a historical part in the life of our railways by being the first diesel hydraulic type used by BR but as a working machines they were a failures. There usage was mainly confined to working trains in Cornwall.

 

I have one, and a second still under construction as it has been for many years. Why did I build mine? The challenge as I did not have one, for the fun of doing so, and something different to run. Not because I needed one now. If people are that desperate for one there are some choices*. 1, make your own, scratchbuild, convert Hornby class 29s, build a MTK kit (if you can find one) or 2, buy a Silver Fox model (sadly discontinued since the Kernow announcement). All of these have been choices before the Kernow announcement. It just baffles me why people are jumping up and down about this model's delay in production. If someone wanted one that badly they would have one by now. Let us be a little patient and not so demanding.

 

Will I buy one, that depends on the cash flow at the time of release.

 

*There is a 3rd choice, get someone else to make one for you.

Edited by Andy Y
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Warley is just around the corner.  Let's see if those good folk from Camborne offer any nice surprises.

 

I have a suspicion some people might well be very surprised.

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I will call in at Kernow next week.  I hope they are not quite so rude to their other customers as they were last time I called.  They were not rude to me personally but made me feel very uncomfortable.

 

Baffling. On several visits over the last few years I have been very well-treated there, including by the proprietor himself, who on one occasion was doubling up as counter-staff because his team were going flat out fulfilling mail orders. I have seldom found a model shop better-stocked or more helpful. 

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If Warley doesn't bring the results people are craving, perhaps someone should email Silver Fox models and ask if they would be interested in doing a custom run of their resin body, perhaps with payment up front to cover their costs. I am sure that they only reason it is no longer available is due to the announcement from Kernow.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread I decided to dig out their resin body for the Bullied diesels as I could see that being quite a long term project, and built it on a Hornby Railroad Class 40 donor chassis. I added a few etched grills and other brass and plastic details, and really enjoyed the process.

Bullied70.jpg

For those who wish to have a ready to run version, perhaps Silver Fox, or one of the model builders on the forum.

Having also dome a conversion from a Hornby Class 29 (Bachmann Class 24 donor chassis) I can add that getting the front windows right on North British diesels is quite a task. Here is a work in progress photo.

Class2951.jpg

I accept that my models are not as refined and the current standard of RTR locos, and that in the long term Kernow model will be worth the wait, but in the short term it is an option.

Personally, as the D600 Warships are extras to my fleet of locos, but much too interesting to resist buying, I think I will just wait.

Jamie

Edited by Jamiel
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Baffling. On several visits over the last few years I have been very well-treated there, including by the proprietor himself, who on one occasion was doubling up as counter-staff because his team were going flat out fulfilling mail orders. I have seldom found a model shop better-stocked or more helpful.

 

My experiences with Kernow have always been very pleasant maybe it was a bad hair day?

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If Warley doesn't bring the results people are craving, perhaps someone should email Silver Fox models and ask if they would be interested in doing a custom run of their resin body, perhaps with payment up front to cover their costs. I am sure that they only reason it is no longer available is due to the announcement from Kernow.

 

As I mentioned earlier in the tread I decided to dig out their resin body for the Bullied diesels as I could see that being quite a long term project, and built it on a Hornby Railroad Class 40 donor chassis. I added a few etched grills and other brass and plastic details, and really enjoyed the process.

 

Bullied70.jpg

 

For those who wish to have a ready to run version, perhaps Silver Fox, or one of the model builders on the forum.

 

Having also dome a conversion from a Hornby Class 29 (Bachmann Class 24 donor chassis) I can add that getting the front windows right on North British diesels is quite a task. Here is a work in progress photo.

 

Class2951.jpg

 

I accept that my models are not as refined and the current standard of RTR locos, and that in the long term Kernow model will be worth the wait, but in the short term it is an option.

 

Personally, as the D600 Warships are extras to my fleet of locos, but much too interesting to resist buying, I think I will just wait.

 

Jamie

Hi Jamie

 

My SR 1Co-Co1 has a different route of construction.

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My experiences with Kernow have always been very pleasant maybe it was a bad hair day?

I don’t have those any more. No hair. :cry:

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I remember seeing one of the D600s at Penzance in their Cornwall days, not sure when, I remember being disappointed that it was not a D800 or D1000 so I want a 1950s  Green one for my 1957-62 WR stud, but it is getting beyond a joke waiting since 2012.

How about the September 2010 announcement from Kernow of Bulleid Diesel 10203......over 6 years now.

 

I seem to remember being told that " I wont die in a ditch waiting" when I questioned this a few years ago....and I'm pleased to announce I haven't....yet.

 

Last I heard from Kernow a couple of years back, was they were still to visit York to look out the drawings.

 

I'm not excited any longer over this project, and suspect it has not progressed at all since its first announcement......stake in the ground I suspect...and I sort of understand the reasons behind that to some degree.

But 6 years on.???

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suspect it has not progressed at all since its first announcement

 

I understand your frustration.

 

Take a look at the Kernow MRC website where they have provided a couple of updates in the interim.  The current statement is "Awaiting CAD-CAMs" which would imply work has been going on behind the scenes even if slowly and not in the spotlight.

 

Many of Kernow's projects have become delayed because they were commissioned with one manufacturer who did, we are told, effectively nothing over two or more years and which resulted in the items being recommissioned elsewhere.  That includes the D600s which this topic relates to.  Those are getting closer and might not be too far from cutting metal.  At last, many of us might sigh.  Most of us are unaware of the daily issues, business discussions and problems behind the scenes.  The Bulleid locos will surely arrive.  They are just taking a lot longer to do so - in common with other items - than might have been anticipated at announcement.

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With Kernow you're not being asked to pay up front for your models so they are funding the R&D themselves, whilst they are a successful shop they are not Hornby or Kader so they will commit funds more slowly especially on more risky projects.

 

Well Tanks, 02, Gate stock, Thumpers, we're not doing badly from them are we?

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So as far as the D600s go

 

There a photos of one at Gloucester and LLandrindod Wells....

 

Map those out and there isn't much of the WR one did not appear on at some time.....

 

Not seen any evidence of Worcester or Brum though

 

Phil

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How about the September 2010 announcement from Kernow of Bulleid Diesel 10203......over 6 years now.

 

I seem to remember being told that " I wont die in a ditch waiting" when I questioned this a few years ago....and I'm pleased to announce I haven't....yet.

 

Last I heard from Kernow a couple of years back, was they were still to visit York to look out the drawings.

 

I'm not excited any longer over this project, and suspect it has not progressed at all since its first announcement......stake in the ground I suspect...and I sort of understand the reasons behind that to some degree.

But 6 years on.???

I’m as frustrated as anyone to be waiting six years for the Bulleid diesels and even more frustrated that other models have been announced and have leapfrogged them. That’s my point of view. Kernow’s point of view is clearly different. As woodenhead says, Kernow is a small outfit. Sales of one limited edition have to finance the next.

 

I can think of two more reasons for the delay. One, Kernow announced these models without realising just how difficult it was going to be to get the information to produce a decent model. Two, when they were announced, the market was different. Heljan’s Falcon had sparked a taste for oddballs. Things are different now: prices are soaring and incomes are not. Manufacturers and commissioners are a lot more cautious and perhaps Kernow thinks these will not sell as well as hoped. After all, the rather nice and less adventurous 37/9s seemed to sit on the shelves (in some cases in a puddle) for a long time. An experience taken to heart?

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All good things come to those who wait - the first shots of the 1361 are in Kernow's hands (albeit with one thing on them which shouldn't be there but should be easy to remove) and the basics are looking very good.  Only Kernow know what other things are in which places in the queue but the Santa season isn't far off.

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With Kernow you're not being asked to pay up front for your models so they are funding the R&D themselves, whilst they are a successful shop they are not Hornby or Kader so they will commit funds more slowly especially on more risky projects.

To me that is an important point worth reiterating. Kernow are carrying their own risk, managing their own finance and cash flow and no customer has been asked to pay up front. And in fairness the same is true for Bachmann, Hornby, Dapol etc, the fact they're bigger companies doesn't alter that truth. Personally I value that, as I still like the concept of buying a model from a model company when it is available to buy without having to get involved in pre-ordering, staggered payments etc. I'm not having a go at those undertaking crowd funded projects as it takes a lot of cajones to finance a model and if crowdfunding works for people then it is a fair enough way of funding projects, it is just my personal preference to just buy a model if I decide I like it and to leave the whole process of what to make and how to make it to the model companies.

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To me that is an important point worth reiterating. Kernow are carrying their own risk, managing their own finance and cash flow and no customer has been asked to pay up front. And in fairness the same is true for Bachmann, Hornby, Dapol etc, the fact they're bigger companies doesn't alter that truth. Personally I value that, as I still like the concept of buying a model from a model company when it is available to buy without having to get involved in pre-ordering, staggered payments etc. I'm not having a go at those undertaking crowd funded projects as it takes a lot of cajones to finance a model and if crowdfunding works for people then it is a fair enough way of funding projects, it is just my personal preference to just buy a model if I decide I like it and to leave the whole process of what to make and how to make it to the model companies.

Very well put and the model companies are very good at picking what to do. I have a list of things as long as my arm which I’d like and if there were any point I could lengthen the list. Suddenly something pops up which I’d never thought of and becomes desirable. Steam and diesel Sentinels. Peckett. You get the idea.

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Very well put and the model companies are very good at picking what to do. I have a list of things as long as my arm which I’d like and if there were any point I could lengthen the list. Suddenly something pops up which I’d never thought of and becomes desirable. Steam and diesel Sentinels. Peckett. You get the idea.

You want to stop before your list gets out of hand! :stinker:

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How about the September 2010 announcement from Kernow of Bulleid Diesel 10203......over 6 years now.

 

I seem to remember being told that " I wont die in a ditch waiting" when I questioned this a few years ago....and I'm pleased to announce I haven't....yet.

 

Last I heard from Kernow a couple of years back, was they were still to visit York to look out the drawings.

 

I'm not excited any longer over this project, and suspect it has not progressed at all since its first announcement......stake in the ground I suspect...and I sort of understand the reasons behind that to some degree.

But 6 years on.???

 

 

I’m as frustrated as anyone to be waiting six years for the Bulleid diesels and even more frustrated that other models have been announced and have leapfrogged them. That’s my point of view. Kernow’s point of view is clearly different. As woodenhead says, Kernow is a small outfit. Sales of one limited edition have to finance the next.

 

I can think of two more reasons for the delay. One, Kernow announced these models without realising just how difficult it was going to be to get the information to produce a decent model. Two, when they were announced, the market was different. Heljan’s Falcon had sparked a taste for oddballs. Things are different now: prices are soaring and incomes are not. Manufacturers and commissioners are a lot more cautious and perhaps Kernow thinks these will not sell as well as hoped. After all, the rather nice and less adventurous 37/9s seemed to sit on the shelves (in some cases in a puddle) for a long time. An experience taken to heart?

 

Although slightly off topic for this D6xx thread I can assure you that work is indeed in progress on the Bulleid diesels behind the scenes  and that the potential reasons above are purely speculation and should be read as such.

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Although slightly off topic for this D6xx thread I can assure you that work is indeed in progress on the Bulleid diesels behind the scenes  and that the potential reasons above are purely speculation and should be read as such.

Sorry for purely speculating. Sackcloth and ashes. Absolutely delighted, though, to hear that there is work in progress on the Bulleids. :danced:

 

Now I’m just hoping that all the lovely stuff coming out would pause for a month so that I can order two more and, just to drag us back onto topic, another D6XX.

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