Rough Engineering Made Easy, Making me own Brush 4

[Clive Mortimore]

I don't post much on here because I am not doing much modelling and I think I know why. The other day I posted the list below on Tony Wrights "Wright Writes" thread.

 

Peaks, I done all the different nose ends and sub variations before Bachmann

EE type 4, scratchbuilt, converted tri-ang 37

NBL Warship D600, converted Hornby 21

BR Warship D812, one of the early ones with disc head code, converted Mainlaine and D870, converted Lima

Brush 4, scratchbuilt, radiator variations, open radiator (still not done by any RTR company but check out photos of moving 47s) and a class 48 conversion

BR Type 2, all body versions converted from the Hornby model, scrapped a class 24 and 25 that I was scratchbuilding when the Bachmann introduced their's.

BRCW Type 2, all body variations converted from class 33

Brush type 2, early disc headcode from both Tri-ang and Airfix, tablet catcher version Airfix converted, two coupled with gangway connectors open and a scratchbuilt one.

Metro-Vic type 2 scratchbuilt pair

Baby Deltic, whole class scratchbuilt and loads of cut and shuts.

NBL type 2, all main body variations converted Hornby 21/29

NBL type 2 (baby Warship) Class 29 converstions

BRCW Type 3, Bagpipe and Slim Jim versions converted from Lima model

EE type 3 split headcode version from Tri-ang model, and scratchbuilt

Hymek, D7000, converted from Tri-ang model (D7000 and D7001 when new differed from the rest of the class).

EE Type 1, Wren model converted to 4 figure headcode version and scratchbuild.

BTH Type 1, loads of scratchbuilt models

NBL Type 1, not so many scracthbult

Clayton Type 1, some scratchbuilt

Detiic, stretched Lima, and an abandoned scratchbuild when Bachmann introduced their model

Swindon/Paxman Type 1, Kit built

DP2, Lima Deltic converted

GT3, scratchbuilt

Lion, Scratchbulit

Falcon, scratch

Kestrel, scratch

DHP1, abandoned scratchbuild, no longer fitted what I was modelling at the time.

10001, plastic card

10203, started life as a MTK kit, body and chassis replaced body scratchbuilt and chassis Mainline Peak.

 

What has happened is the RTR manufacturers have taken the challenge out of making things. Same list but with what has been produced by the RTR guys. I will only refer to locos in my modelling time period but I think you will see the picture. Red is what has been done, and blue to be done which I am sure they will do.

 

Peaks,  Class 44, class 45 with centre and split headcode boxes, and class 46. Class 45 with split boxes and doors.

EE type 4, All sub versions of the nose types. 

NBL Warship D600,  Not yet but soon to be, again all variations to be made.

BR Warship One of the early ones with disc head code,and D870.

Class 43. not on my original list as I only renumbered Lima and Mainline class 42. 

Brush 4, All main sub versions, except D1500 (radiator and cant rail grilles), D1501-09 (cant rail Grilles), open radiator and Class 48. 

BR Type 2,  Class 24, including pilot version, class 25 mid production body and late bodies. Announced late body class 24 (headcode boxes). D5018 and early body class 25 (but can easily be made from a late body class 24.

BRCW Type 2, All variations.

Brush type 2,All variations apart from D5834 and the tablet catcher ones.

Metro-Vic type 2 Available. I don't think it sold like they thought it would.

Baby Deltic.Available

NBL type 2,  Updated versions announced, the EP models looked quite good.

NBL type 2 (baby Warship) Disc and headcode production versions have been done but not pilot versions.

BRCW Type 3, All variations.

EE type 3  All variations.

Hymek,  Still no RTR D7000 or D7001

EE Type 1,  All variations.

BTH Type 1, Yes

NBL Type 1,  Yes

Clayton Type 1,  Yes, Rolls Royce engined pair.

Detiic, .Yes

Swindon/Paxman Type 1, Yes

DP2, Yes

GT3, No

Lion, Yes

Falcon, Yes

Kestrel,  Yes

DHP1, No

10001, Yes

10203,  Yes

 

As you can see not much left to model and I don't think my bodging will ever match the skills of the Chinese tool makers.

[John Tomlinson]

An interesting list and comparison Clive. You could add the Fell as another one outstanding.

 

The RTR people still have some gaps in the shunter range. The pre nationalisation forerunners of the 08's spring to mind, especially the jackshaft LMS types, plus some of the little ones such as 01 and 02. I recently picked up a couple of the Heljan Hunslet 05's in Hattons sale, and I think few if any of us could match the performance and finish on them.

 

John.

[griffgriff]

I know a bit modern for your tastes but there is some mileage in the EE type 3.... there are loads more RTR incarnations for that

 

Griff

[Clive Mortimore]

An interesting list and comparison Clive. You could add the Fell as another one outstanding.

 

The RTR people still have some gaps in the shunter range. The pre nationalisation forerunners of the 08's spring to mind, especially the jackshaft LMS types, plus some of the little ones such as 01 and 02. I recently picked up a couple of the Heljan Hunslet 05's in Hattons sale, and I think few if any of us could match the performance and finish on them.

 

John.

Hi John

 

I kept to my own modelling era, hence the Fell was not added or "Deltic". I kept to main line diesels as there loads of shunter, electric loco, DMU and EMU classes that can be modelled so I still can do some modelling, but as an ex-locospotter there is nothing like making a loco.

 

I did forget Hawk 10800, which in its rebuild state is in my period. Yes I have scratchbuilt it. I have never had a Fell. I did have a Kitmaster Deltic which was powered by a Lima continental six wheel bogie. Until I dropped it it ran on its Kitmaster wheels on the unpowered end.

[Clive Mortimore]

I know a bit modern for your tastes but there is some mileage in the EE type 3.... there are loads more RTR incarnations for that

 

Griff

Hi Griff

 

Agreed, the humble Type 3 (or as the Welsh spotters called them D68xx) only came in three varieties in my day, split box, RSH split box and central box.

 

How many "modellers" make the sub versions of the Class37? How many more wait to see if the yearly announcement by the leading manufacturers will include 37 xvz (in the right livery) and the lives would be fulfilled if it did?

Edited August 3, 2018 by Clive Mortimore

[CloggyDog]

Personally, I think the amount of 'modelling', particularly loco modelling, done is largely down to whether the individual enjoys the modelling/building bit (i.e. the journey) or the running/operation (destination) more.

 

In days of yore, there was limited RTR choice if you were an operator and so you either had to model or you put up with a limited loco fleet. If you were a builder, then you could happily enjoy the hobby by, for example, turning Messrs Slaters sheets of plastic into 3d models of locomotives   I've sat next to you watching, with no small amount of awe at your skill in, doing just that. I guess you need to ask yourself if that activity was borne out of a desire to have a better variety of engines to play with, or for the enjoyment of building (with the variety as an added bonus?) As for comparison with RTR models, that's a trickier one. I still have a number of my earlier detailing/conversion attempts, a couple of which are still in the active Shirebeck fleet, simply because I enjoyed the work I put into them and they still function and look decent enough to my eyes - frankly that's all that should matter, no?

 

Nowadays, as your list illustrates, the operators of the world no longer have to suffer a limited variety fleet or the enforced modelling, unless they want to (in which case I'd say they were more builders than operators)

 

And it may be that, with the space now available to build that Trainset Of your Dreams , the realisation that you're more an operator than a builder has maybe come as a wee shock?

 

Are my ramblings making sense...? Probably not. At some point we'll have to rekindle this over a beer or three

[Clive Mortimore]

Personally, I think the amount of 'modelling', particularly loco modelling, done is largely down to whether the individual enjoys the modelling/building bit (i.e. the journey) or the running/operation (destination) more.

 

In days of yore, there was limited RTR choice if you were an operator and so you either had to model or you put up with a limited loco fleet. If you were a builder, then you could happily enjoy the hobby by, for example, turning Messrs Slaters sheets of plastic into 3d models of locomotives   I've sat next to you watching, with no small amount of awe at your skill in, doing just that. I guess you need to ask yourself if that activity was borne out of a desire to have a better variety of engines to play with, or for the enjoyment of building (with the variety as an added bonus?) As for comparison with RTR models, that's a trickier one. I still have a number of my earlier detailing/conversion attempts, a couple of which are still in the active Shirebeck fleet, simply because I enjoyed the work I put into them and they still function and look decent enough to my eyes - frankly that's all that should matter, no?

 

Nowadays, as your list illustrates, the operators of the world no longer have to suffer a limited variety fleet or the enforced modelling, unless they want to (in which case I'd say they were more builders than operators)

 

And it may be that, with the space now available to build that Trainset Of your Dreams , the realisation that you're more an operator than a builder has maybe come as a wee shock?

 

Are my ramblings making sense...? Probably not. At some point we'll have to rekindle this over a beer or three

Hi Alan

 

Thanks.

 

The want/need to build my own came from a desire to have typical Eastern Region locomotives. Now back in the early 80s ER modellers were lucky there was the Brush Type 2, the Brush Type 4 and the English Electric Type 3 (well it was a Welsh D68xx not a proper type 3 with split headcode boxes). Then Airfix, Mainline, Jouef and Lima suddenly jumped in with their respective 31, 45, 40 and 55. Things were starting to get good. Hornby's 25 (that rubbish one that is still better than the Bachy one) soon became a 24. Diesel modelling was on a roll , 33s for those south of the Thames and all sorts of strange locos form bandit country Great Western Region. Missing were the cute classes, the BTH, the Baby Deltics and even the NBL type 1.  Being told that no RTR manufacturer would ever make them , I decided I would have ago, and it was fun. So I kept going . At one point I had every BR diesel class up to the class 50s and within those classes most variations that carried green (or a contemporary livery) with a small yella panel.  There was a sense achievement with each model I made.

 

Today my models look naff against those made in China, full credit to the tool makers who unlike me have never seen the real things. Also everyone can have one, just look at the expression of delight and wet pants on the Bullied Diesel thread. When I took my model out to the first couple of shows I had to explain what it was as most diesel modellers didn't know and many steam modellers just walked past "Another diesel layout".

[Clive Mortimore]

I know I missed out the Wrenn/Doublo Type 1 but that was twice the price of the other diesels and made the Mainline Peak look a good runner.

[CloggyDog]

I decided I would have a go, and it was fun. So I kept going . At one point I had every BR diesel class up to the class 50s and within those classes most variations that carried green (or a contemporary livery) with a small yella panel.  There was a sense of achievement with each model I made.

 

Those two lines, in particular the bits I've bolded, are the key fundamental things for any hobby.

 

I wouldn't try to analyse it too deeply (even if I had a good try in my previous post...!) if you enjoy it, get pleasure and a sense of achievement from it, it's clearly working for you.

 

Personally, I still enjoy the building/bashing bit more than the playing trains bit, so will continue to enjoy my hobby that way.

 

 

Dublo/Wrenn Type 1... yeah I had one briefly. Initial thoughts were to 'do a Monty' and tart the thing up, saved by the Lima one coming out. So I ended up trying to turn it into a BTH, following that chap's article in the Todeller in 198coughcough. I might even still have the thing somewhere, possibly my longest started/uncompleted project!

[Gibbo675]

I don't post much on here because I am not doing much modelling and I think I know why. The other day I posted the list below on Tony Wrights "Wright Writes" thread.

 

Peaks, I done all the different nose ends and sub variations before Bachmann

EE type 4, scratchbuilt, converted tri-ang 37

NBL Warship D600, converted Hornby 21

BR Warship D812, one of the early ones with disc head code, converted Mainlaine and D870, converted Lima

Brush 4, scratchbuilt, radiator variations, open radiator (still not done by any RTR company but check out photos of moving 47s) and a class 48 conversion

BR Type 2, all body versions converted from the Hornby model, scrapped a class 24 and 25 that I was scratchbuilding when the Bachmann introduced their's.

BRCW Type 2, all body variations converted from class 33

Brush type 2, early disc headcode from both Tri-ang and Airfix, tablet catcher version Airfix converted, two coupled with gangway connectors open and a scratchbuilt one.

Metro-Vic type 2 scratchbuilt pair

Baby Deltic, whole class scratchbuilt and loads of cut and shuts.

NBL type 2, all main body variations converted Hornby 21/29

NBL type 2 (baby Warship) Class 29 converstions

BRCW Type 3, Bagpipe and Slim Jim versions converted from Lima model

EE type 3 split headcode version from Tri-ang model, and scratchbuilt

Hymek, D7000, converted from Tri-ang model (D7000 and D7001 when new differed from the rest of the class).

EE Type 1, Wren model converted to 4 figure headcode version and scratchbuild.

BTH Type 1, loads of scratchbuilt models

NBL Type 1, not so many scracthbult

Clayton Type 1, some scratchbuilt

Detiic, stretched Lima, and an abandoned scratchbuild when Bachmann introduced their model

Swindon/Paxman Type 1, Kit built

DP2, Lima Deltic converted

GT3, scratchbuilt

Lion, Scratchbulit

Falcon, scratch

Kestrel, scratch

DHP1, abandoned scratchbuild, no longer fitted what I was modelling at the time.

10001, plastic card

10203, started life as a MTK kit, body and chassis replaced body scratchbuilt and chassis Mainline Peak.

 

What has happened is the RTR manufacturers have taken the challenge out of making things. Same list but with what has been produced by the RTR guys. I will only refer to locos in my modelling time period but I think you will see the picture. Red is what has been done, and blue to be done which I am sure they will do.

 

Peaks,  Class 44, class 45 with centre and split headcode boxes, and class 46. Class 45 with split boxes and doors.

EE type 4, All sub versions of the nose types. 

NBL Warship D600,  Not yet but soon to be, again all variations to be made.

BR Warship One of the early ones with disc head code,and D870.

Class 43. not on my original list as I only renumbered Lima and Mainline class 42. 

Brush 4, All main sub versions, except D1500 (radiator and cant rail grilles), D1501-09 (cant rail Grilles), open radiator and Class 48. 

BR Type 2,  Class 24, including pilot version, class 25 mid production body and late bodies. Announced late body class 24 (headcode boxes). D5018 and early body class 25 (but can easily be made from a late body class 24.

BRCW Type 2, All variations.

Brush type 2,All variations apart from D5834 and the tablet catcher ones.

Metro-Vic type 2 Available. I don't think it sold like they thought it would.

Baby Deltic.Available

NBL type 2,  Updated versions announced, the EP models looked quite good.

NBL type 2 (baby Warship) Disc and headcode production versions have been done but not pilot versions.

BRCW Type 3, All variations.

EE type 3  All variations.

Hymek,  Still no RTR D7000 or D7001

EE Type 1,  All variations.

BTH Type 1, Yes

NBL Type 1,  Yes

Clayton Type 1,  Yes, Rolls Royce engined pair.

Detiic, .Yes

Swindon/Paxman Type 1, Yes

DP2, Yes

GT3, No

Lion, Yes

Falcon, Yes

Kestrel,  Yes

DHP1, No

10001, Yes

10203,  Yes

 

As you can see not much left to model and I don't think my bodging will ever match the skills of the Chinese tool makers.

Hi Clive,

 

You are quite correct, the RTR manufacturers have indeed made life very easy for those "out of the box types" to run a well stocked railway. I find it makes my life too easy though and it isn't fun when there is no challenge.

 

Opening a box is easy, could be a new engine or it could be cornflakes. Where's the challenge?

 

I have one of every type of AC electric, with the exception of the 86, 87, 90 and 91 all cut and shuts made from some Trix body shells I picked up at a show and two more from eBay plus my original that my dad got me second hand in 1973!

The idea of one of building or bashing every type of main line diesel is an ongoing project which is to be fair quite glacial in its progress at the moment but great fun and all my own work. The Current paraffin camel is the EE Co. GT3, which is a modified Golden Arrow contraption on a Bachman Std 4 chassis with a very old Hornby Britannia tender frame.

 

It is probably why I got the idea of building cranes for the fun of it especially as I have worked with the ex Ashford 75 Ton contraption that is at Bury ELR. Photos of cranes coming soon.

 

Gibbo.

[Phil Bullock]

Clive

 

The breadth of your modelling in this era is second to none and the fact that you had these models way before the rest of us is blooming impressive!

 

However given your Eastern Region leanings its time for a visit from the hydraulic police... a point of order on the Baby Warships (Class 22) Mr M

 

The headcode fitted version we have from Dapol aint the production headcode fitted series - its the disc batch with retrofitted headcode boxes. We don't have the headcode fitted production series - Dapol did announce locos in that series D6335 upwards but quickly changed their mind when they realised the differences!

 

Pedant mode disengaged....

 

Cheers

 

Phil

[Clive Mortimore]

Clive

 

The breadth of your modelling in this era is second to none and the fact that you had these models way before the rest of us is blooming impressive!

 

However given your Eastern Region leanings its time for a visit from the hydraulic police... a point of order on the Baby Warships (Class 22) Mr M

 

The headcode fitted version we have from Dapol aint the production headcode fitted series - its the disc batch with retrofitted headcode boxes. We don't have the headcode fitted production series - Dapol did announce locos in that series D6335 upwards but quickly changed their mind when they realised the differences!

 

Pedant mode disengaged....

 

Cheers

 

Phil

Dear Lord Bullock of Abbotswood

 

Dapol ain't done any of the pilot locos, disc or headcode box retrofitted.

 

And yes you are right and I am almost wrong in that they haven't done a production headcode box Baby Warship as built but they have done a production series disc headcode Baby Warship with retrofitted boxes.

 

And there is more they haven't done, those ones with the sticky out headcode boxes. There was a great article in BRM by Boyt Hunter in August 95.

 

Do they do replacement valance bits. At Lyddrail  I picked up my loco by its body, the chassis stayed put and the valance thingies went all over the place and I didn't recover all of them.

[Phil Bullock]

Agreed Mr M!

 

Class 22s are a right minefield....

 

If your falling off valances were freely available then DCC supplies would probably list them - but they don't...

 

Still might be worth having a word with them they are a helpful bunch!

 

Phil

[Clive Mortimore]

Personally, I think the amount of 'modelling', particularly loco modelling, done is largely down to whether the individual enjoys the modelling/building bit (i.e. the journey) or the running/operation (destination) more.

 

In days of yore, there was limited RTR choice if you were an operator and so you either had to model or you put up with a limited loco fleet. If you were a builder, then you could happily enjoy the hobby by, for example, turning Messrs Slaters sheets of plastic into 3d models of locomotives   I've sat next to you watching, with no small amount of awe at your skill in, doing just that. I guess you need to ask yourself if that activity was borne out of a desire to have a better variety of engines to play with, or for the enjoyment of building (with the variety as an added bonus?) As for comparison with RTR models, that's a trickier one. I still have a number of my earlier detailing/conversion attempts, a couple of which are still in the active Shirebeck fleet, simply because I enjoyed the work I put into them and they still function and look decent enough to my eyes - frankly that's all that should matter, no?

 

Nowadays, as your list illustrates, the operators of the world no longer have to suffer a limited variety fleet or the enforced modelling, unless they want to (in which case I'd say they were more builders than operators)

 

And it may be that, with the space now available to build that Trainset Of your Dreams , the realisation that you're more an operator than a builder has maybe come as a wee shock?

 

Are my ramblings making sense...? Probably not. At some point we'll have to rekindle this over a beer or three

Hi Alan

 

I have given your ramblings some thought.

 

I am enjoying operating my big train set more than I thought I would. Hence I haven't started to paint the track, ballast it, build the platforms, install the signals etc. I am now only making a mistake driving every second move, so improving. Boy it is fun to play with. I am more of an operator than I thought I was.

 

I am not very good a painting my models. At the moment I do not have any where to spray them, I could go outside in this good weather but the amount of bugs we have in garden any drying model will be a fly trap. I know these are excuses but when there is a stack of painting to be done the thought of finishing projects to join that stack doesn't appeal and the wish to start the next seems stupid. 

 

Next job is to tidy up the layout and take some photos of unfinished trains running on an unfinished layout.

[gobbler]

Clive,

 

I've really enjoyed this thread.

Some Grrrrrrreat stuff here.

 

But for the mo' I'm 'sticking' (pun intended) to my coaches.

 

Still tinkering with my N7 and F4/5.

 

Thanks also to everyone else's input to make this a fascinating and inspiring thread.

 

Whatever you get up to enjoy!!!

 

Cheers

 

Scott

[John Tomlinson]

Just been looking through this thread and noted the bit about NBL 2 valances.

 

They are now listed by DCC Supplies on their website, unfortunately none of the variants, by colour, are in stock.

 

I'd have thought this might change next time they do a new set of locos.

 

The Dapol bits can be useful for detailing older locos, I've just applied all the pipes for 73's to three of my Hornby and Lima examples.

 

John.

[Clive Mortimore]

I have realised that I am posting all my modelling on my Sheffield Exchange thread not DMU Conversions for Sheffield Exchange or here. As I have basically stopped using these two threads I will concentrate my butchering of RTR stock and deforming plastic card efforts on Sheffield Exchange.