Sam*45110*SVR Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I'm a volunteer on the Severn Valley ( you may have guessed by the name ) and I'm hoping to recreate the coach I've been working on for the past year. It's ex LNER pigeon van no 70759 which is being converted to a brake 3rd with 4 compartments (see drawing below). I don't have the money ( or courage/recklessness) to tackle it by butchering a pair of super detail Hornby teaks and have considered using the old Ian kirk kits available via cooper craft. The two kits I thought most suitable for this were 8842 LNER 61'6" Corridor Full Brake and 8850 LNER 61' 6" Side Corridor Composite. I thought it would be best to buy the 8850 kit then buy the sides to the 8842 kit that are available as spares on the website. Then I would make the composite kit as per instructions but the only difference being the altered sides with the halves of the full brake sides. The whole thing would cost a mere £19 as I already have wheels paint etc.But having said that has anyone got a better solution or spotted a silly mistake I've made? (edited 10/7/14 to remove dead link and add photo in tis place) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Hi Sam, I don't know much about the LNER but as you are new to the Kit & Scratchbuild forum I thought one of us had better welcome you so, Hello! There will be a helpful LNER person along who will be able to advise on this better than I but usual routes to consider would be to have a look at the Comet selection (http://www.cometmodels.co.uk) and see if etched sides are available. If not, check out Worsley Works (http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/4mm/4mm_Index.htm) and see if Alan can sort you a set of etched sides. Fitting these to an RTR coach which can take a lot of the pain out of the process. No soldering involved if you don't want it to be. I hope this helps! All the best, Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam*45110*SVR Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 Thanks, I hadn't thought about getting some etched sides produced for it, it might prove a lot easier than I thought and not having to solder sounds pretty good as I'm not experienced with etched brass or white metal kits. Also fitting them to an RTR coach guarantees good running rather than risking it with a home made chassis. Certainly something to think about. Thanks for the advice Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Sam About this time last year (it was on a thursday) I was wandering about the yard looking at the stock, when I was invited into your coach by a chap who was working on it. I had an explanation of what was going on, what you had done todate and the plan for the future. Quite an undertaking and the work carried out at that time looked to have been done to the highest standards. Will be very interesting to see your model take shape, good luck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Hornby sleepers could be picked up for around £18 a bit ago. Not sure if hey are still available at that price. Then the 2 side packs from the old Ian Kirk mouldings could be used to give a good running coach with a RTR underframe for around £25. I have the bits in my project draw for a similar exercise. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Coachman done a thread on here on converting Hornby LNER Coaches using etched sides . A search should find it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I'm going to go against the flow here and say your Kirk conversion will work fine and I'd go for that first. You can always upgrade to a brass model later if you're not happy with it and it won't cost anywhere near as much. The sides lend themselves very easily to cutting and shutting - I've done quite a few - and are readily available. If you do go that way I'd budget for a few other bits - better bogies, battery boxes, trussing, dynamo and roof vents (MJT or Comet). Also remove the moulded door handles and add etched ones and grab handles (MJT again). It makes a world of difference to the finished model. This one is made up of sections of three sides grafted together. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam*45110*SVR Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 Lots of very interesting suggestions, all of which I hadn't thought of ! oh well that's what forums are for I suppose. Not sure what I'm going to go with yet though, a little more research first I think. No more prototype research necessary ( I've seen all I need to spending a day every week or so on it during my summer holidays! ) I think I'll get the two sets of kirk sides then have a little fiddle around with them against one of my other gresleys to then see if I reckon it's easily achievable. Then I'll decide whether to buy the full kit or a cheap RTR coach. Thanks for all the input everyone, didn't think there would be this much of a response after such a short time! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Alder Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Sounds an interesting project- will be following with interest. For my personal curiosity, do you have any interior shots of the pigeon van showing the fold down shelves at all. I can remember these vans well, but not where the shelves were. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam*45110*SVR Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 Unfortunately not, they have been made/refurbished but haven't been installed and I haven't seen them. There are no pictures (that I know of) on either of our websites http://www.lnersvrcoachfund.org.uk/ http://www.svr-rollingstocktrust.org.uk/either . Your best bet is probably the RVP website for interior shots of their pigeon van 4050 on the GCR. http://www.rvp-ltd.org.uk/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Kirk Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Hi, Little did I think when I was cutting the moulds for these 30 years ago that they might be used to produce a model of a real coach which at that time was yet to be built. From your drawing it would seem that you have the correct types and half a full brake grafted onto half a composite should do it. I get to comment here as I have had no commercial interest in the 00 kits that bear my name for nearly 20 years. There is something not right about the Hornby underframe so having come back to 00 after twenty years, for my own use, I am using the floor and solebars from my original kits but fitting RTR bogies. This gives RTR running without having to do major surgery on the RTR floor/solebar unit. I see that the O gauge kits that I still produce could also be built into this new coach. Being "modular" it might be even easier. best wishes, Ian I have found the first R.M.advert for Kirk 61ft 6in Gresleys - September 1982 makes me feel antique! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Alder Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Your best bet is probably the RVP website for interior shots of their pigeon van 4050 on the GCR. http://www.rvp-ltd.org.uk/ Thanks for that- nice to know there's still one about Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesysmith Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Hi, Little did I think when I was cutting the moulds for these 30 years ago that they might be used to produce a model of a real coach which at that time was yet to be built. From your drawing it would seem that you have the correct types and half a full brake grafted onto half a composite should do it. I get to comment here as I have had no commercial interest in the 00 kits that bear my name for nearly 20 years. There is something not right about the Hornby underframe so having come back to 00 after twenty years, for my own use, I am using the floor and solebars from my original kits but fitting RTR bogies. This gives RTR running without having to do major surgery on the RTR floor/solebar unit. I see that the O gauge kits that I still produce could also be built into this new coach. Being "modular" it might be even easier. best wishes, Ian I have found the first R.M.advert for Kirk 61ft 6in Gresleys - September 1982 makes me feel antique! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesysmith Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Not old, just a more experienced modeller now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam*45110*SVR Posted October 11, 2012 Author Share Posted October 11, 2012 Wow, the man who made the kits in the first place and many highly skilled modellers are watching my project unfold, no pressure then ! I have now decided to simply take the sides and fit them to the Hornby gresley, now just the hunt for one at the right price, there was a sleeper on ebay for £23 inc postage BRAND NEW so I thought that I'd be able to get one for cheaper than that second hand from an exhibition. I'll be getting the sides this weekend to start work on them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted October 12, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 12, 2012 How well do the kits compare to the Hornby models - I do notice that the Horny RTR ones are rather pricey for me! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam*45110*SVR Posted October 16, 2012 Author Share Posted October 16, 2012 The sides haven't arrived yet. I had my eye on a used gresley on ebay, then totally forgot about it until tonight only to find the auction had finished yesterday for a TENNER !! MJI, The kits are v good but as with all kits, they only look as good as you build them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam*45110*SVR Posted October 16, 2012 Author Share Posted October 16, 2012 How well do the kits compare to the Hornby models - I do notice that the Horny RTR ones are rather pricey for me! Either you missed the b in Hornby or you and I are talking about very different things ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted October 16, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2012 The sides haven't arrived yet. I had my eye on a used gresley on ebay, then totally forgot about it until tonight only to find the auction had finished yesterday for a TENNER !! MJI, The kits are v good but as with all kits, they only look as good as you build them. I think I might give them a go.a couple of 186 TSOs, 175 BCK, 167 or 187 buffet. Either you missed the b in Hornby or you and I are talking about very different things ! It was a naughty keyboard So what are the diags of the IK LNER kits please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Wow, the man who made the kits in the first place and many highly skilled modellers are watching my project unfold, no pressure then ! Hi Sam, Correct - no pressure at all. We are all on here to help each other out and to learn things and I am sure that is true from the inexperienced newbies to those with a lifetime's modelmaking experience. The important thing however is that we all enjoy it! I look forward to seeing your project develop. Keep us updated! All the best, Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam*45110*SVR Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 I'm back ! Finally the parts from coopercraft have arrived (just my luck to order parts a few days after their machine breaks !) and I picked up a Hornby donor from warley. I'm now ready to start, now I just need some courage... Now let's hope the result is worth the wait ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam*45110*SVR Posted December 9, 2012 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 I've bitten the bullet and made a start on it. MWUHAHAHA let the butchering begin ! First I carefully parted the glazing from the sides of the donor, I think I'll be able to use most of it again. Then I chopped off the window frames removing the side but leaving some stubs on the roof line. Then I sliced and filed off the remainder from the roof leaving a nice smooth surface for the sides to attach to. I've only done this to one side at the moment to keep some rigidity in the body. Second pic shows the new sides marked up ready to cut, but I'll leave that for now. Have since taken off the two large vents(?) unique to the buffet car and marked the roof for where the new ones will go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Hi Sam, That's often the hardest bit done - taking the scalpel to the pristine model and turning it into what seems like scrap... Looks like you have picked a nice little project there. Keep up the good work! All the best, Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam*45110*SVR Posted December 14, 2012 Author Share Posted December 14, 2012 Just a quick update, the sides are different thickness's so I'm going to have to dig out some 1mm plasticard. I've started the modifications on the underframe, all of step boards have been removed (They aren't there on the real thing, I know because I spent several days of my summer scraping and painting a pair of bogies !) and I'm about to remove one of the battery boxes and the stuff associated with the buffet on the donor. Now about the interior, obviously the donor's interior being an open isn't accurate for a brake third so having searched in vain for a BCK SK or FK interior it looks like I'm going to have to scratchbuild an interior using the buffet interior as a base. And finally, always a thorny issue this, the livery! I'll be painting it BR maroon for 2 reasons: 1. I know I won't be able to paint it in teak without it looking like the Hornby railrroad gresleys! 2. It's the easier of the two possible liveries (Blood and custard and maroon) that are suitable for the changover period I model. (Having said that I did succumb to a rare bird set !) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam*45110*SVR Posted January 27, 2013 Author Share Posted January 27, 2013 No progress since the last update for 2 good reasons: 1 Christmas and 2 AS level exams and an assortment of coursework to do this month . Oh well hope to make some progress this week. Hopefully I'll have caught up to the real thing by the end of the month ! If only 70759 was as easy a project as this ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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