relaxinghobby Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Can this Bachmann Donald loco be made into a scale model? Here is a rough sketch of one, it is a bit too tall for an 00 model. When put beside a true 00 4mm model it seems a bit oversized, maybe 4.5mm to the foot? Inside is a big chassis block, the motor is at the back and a mechanism to operate the moving eyes is at the front, the centre wheels are driven. The motor could be laid flat across the frame and the top and front cut off of the chassis block to fit this chassis into a smaller body. With a 29mm + 36mm wheelbase what other locos is this chassis suitable for? a Gresley LNER J52 or a Drummond LSWR/Southern Railway Black Motor which was similar to the Scottish 0-6-0 that the Bachmann model is based upon. Maybe a Great Central Pom-Pom which was also a big 0-6-0 from the Edwardian era. The cab is a separate moulding from the combined boiler and foot plate moulding. The chassis is all metal and the body is plastic so easily cut and kit-bashed about by the interested modeller. Can this toy be made into a scale model? Historical era 1890's to 1960's, pre-groupimg to steam diesel transition era, preservation era. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobhead Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I'm pretty sure that plenty of fun can be had with this model. A lowering of the boiler down to the wheel splashers would look good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Proportions and tender outline not dissimilar to the NB J37. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
will5210 Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Originally Donald & Douglas were based on the Caley 812. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caledonian_Railway_812_Class They were always my favorite characters from the books Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 The loco looks a bit boxy and may only be any good for its chassis, but the tender looks more promising. Cheers, Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiptonian Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 The motor height looks a bit of a problem, but the wheelbase matches the LNER J50 and J51, and the wheel diameter is as near as no matter. There are tender engines which share this wheelbase (J1, J2, J5, J6 and probably others), but have larger wheels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 One thing for certain it does not look much like this : http://www.flickr.com/photos/scarlet-lancer165/200371559/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relaxinghobby Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 A catch-up report about Donald, over all with the look of Donald I'm a bit dissapointed because in Bachmann's own picture it looked like a reasonably proportioned model, but in the plastic he is annoyingly oversize. So no quick face transplant and repaint to make him become a respectable scale model. A more involved process of some cutting and gluing of his plastic shell will be needed to reduce the overhigh boiler height and to narrow that tender a bit. I can report on his performance, whilst running in on a number 3 circle of track. That's about 21 inch radius, with the controller at half power he can pull well at a reasonably slow speed 13 of my wagons around and around. That's not nice smooth running shop bought models but my own kit built wagons that don't always come out with perfect running chassis, it's more as if they have their brakes slightly pinned on so a whole train can cause quite a lot of drag. So some success there I manage to model a train of troublesome trucks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relaxinghobby Posted August 12, 2013 Author Share Posted August 12, 2013 Donald after some cosmetic work, which was mostly a new chimney and smoke box door. The nameplate and number have been removed and the engine painted with some matt varnish. I think I have improved it's looks as a model steam loco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scots region Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Ohh dead nice, he has an almost J37-esk appeal about him. Stick him on the coal traffic he'll brush up best there. BTW RH would you mind if I took his photos for my diagram book? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
medion694 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Wow that is quite a remarkable transformation! It certainly looks like some form of (dare I say) generic 0-6-0. I reckon she will look good meandering on the front of a goods train Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Harrison Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Looks convincing enough- if you hadn't said it was a Bachmann Donald I'd have been asking what kit it was. It's got a nice Caley-esque look about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J C Fenton Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Great conversion. With the small drivers a Victorian 0-6-0 should be in prospect, but is the motor mounted too high? If anything, the drivers are a tad too small for many prototypes. What prototypes would have 4'6" drivers? On the titchy side would be the NER P1 (J25) at 4’7¼”. Are there any other suitable prototypes? Another crucial question is whether this huge "engine block" can be reduced or removed. Goggly-eyed Percy, for example, has a lot of redundant black plastic bulk under the body-shell that can be hacked away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londontram Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Having gone to the trouble of making the molds for Donald its a shame they didnt make a Caley 812 class in the first place and then just made a basic one for Donald and a high quality one for the scale model world, two markets for the price of one! after all the market is crying out for more pre- grouping engines Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Nile Posted September 14, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 14, 2013 For legal reasons Bachmann can't simply remove the face from these locos and sell them over here. A proper 812 would have to be a new model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 ...If anything, the drivers are a tad too small for many prototypes. What prototypes would have 4'6" drivers? On the titchy side would be the NER P1 (J25) at 4’7¼”. Are there any other suitable prototypes?... Many more such 0-6-0s designed for slow mineral traffic. The LNWR 'coal engine', L&Y class 25, GNR Stirling mineral engine, and the NER development line as mentioned above, J's 24 - 27 inclusive. Nominal driver diameters up to 4'8" are in essence the 4'6" wheel, with the superior forged steel tyres that could loose up to 2" in diameter from reprofilings before being replaced; never forget that the quoted diameter is the ex-works maximum, they are going to be reducing in diameter thereafter. The Gresley J38 the last such 0-6-0 design to enter service, in design a continuation of the NER 0-6-0 line. This diameter wheel goes on in the various eight coupled heavy freight locos that generally superseded the 0-6-0 for slow mineral haulage. Design of 0-6-0s converged on nominal 5' diameter (4'11" - 5'3") as being of maximum general usefulness, all the final Big Four designs (2251, 4F, J39, Q1) being in this zone. The GNR - and probably other companies - tried 5'8" wheel 0-6-0's. These would go yet faster than the smaller wheeled 0-6-0s, but it all became a bit too exciting; and a leading truck was found to be a good plan for a genuine mixed traffic machine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J C Fenton Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Many more such 0-6-0s designed for slow mineral traffic. The LNWR 'coal engine', L&Y class 25, GNR Stirling mineral engine, and the NER development line as mentioned above, J's 24 - 27 inclusive. Nominal driver diameters up to 4'8" are in essence the 4'6" wheel, with the superior forged steel tyres that could loose up to 2" in diameter from reprofilings before being replaced; never forget that the quoted diameter is the ex-works maximum, they are going to be reducing in diameter thereafter. The Gresley J38 the last such 0-6-0 design to enter service, in design a continuation of the NER 0-6-0 line. This diameter wheel goes on in the various eight coupled heavy freight locos that generally superseded the 0-6-0 for slow mineral haulage. I always tolerate up to 2" difference precisely because of tyres. Your list is most helpful, thanks. I think the current crop of RTR 0-6-0s gives ample choice for the later 5'8" or thereabouts prototypes. A smaller wheel 0-6-0 could be invaluable for older prototypes. Experience of Bachmann Junior and Bachmann HO Thomas locos shows that these are smooth running models, far superior to other train set fodder. So, Bachmann's Donald/Douglas ought to be good news. My concern is that these older 0-6-0s, with small boilers, will not accommodate this chassis. I am guessing that the motor sits too high and that the lack of daylight under the boiler would be too obvious. The loco is unlikely to be black (NER only after 1903, most companies not at all pre-grouping), so the engine "block" will be too obvious if it cannot be removed. So, I guess my question would be whether we are dealing with a metal engine block, or just a big plastic box that for most of its height and length does nothing but house the goggly eyes gubbins, as I have found to be the case with Percy (which would make a better RTR chassis for a Y9 than the Hornby stretched Scalextrics chassis). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londontram Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 I wouldn't mind having a go at one some time but looking at the price on Ebay I think I might hold on till I see one cheap at a toy fair or some where like that in a few years time. For near enough the same money I could pick up a Hornby M7 and do something better with that, be nice if you could get the tender as a cheap spare as I think that might come in handy on a Caley conversion with a bit of work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNWR18901910 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 How about the Glasgow & South Western 'Austrian Goods' 2-6-0? I like that locomotive and it could serve as a proposed basis for James the Red Engine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted October 16, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 16, 2017 For legal reasons Bachmann can't simply remove the face from these locos and sell them over here. A proper 812 would have to be a new model. Too late for this one, but couldn't they make the prototypical loco first (like the week before) then develop the TTTE version from it? John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 The TTTE product is licensed, and thereby hangs the problem. The product has to match the current televisual presentation, and the licensing organisation doesn't want to hand out an easy route to anyone to privately create a TTTE lookee-like: which acts to close the gate on basing the TTTE item on whatever might be considered to be the 'original prototype'. (I am pretty sure the Rev Awdry - relaxed (and freelance model) railway enthusiast - wouldn't like this situation much, but those who came after sold the rights away, and the owners are intent on squeezing every drop of profit from it.) Doesn't stop anyone carving a cheaply obtained specimen to make it look more like a Scottish 0-6-0. The very high boiler centre line and large boiler diameter confers more of the ex NBR later LNER J37's appearance to these eyes, rather then the ex CR 812, Whatever is aimed at, there would be some significant 'adjustments' to make and plenty of alternative detail parts to locate and add. This may have had attractions when this model was first available, but since then some rather good 0-6-0 models have been added in OO. These have lower pitched motors with largely or completely concealed mechanisms, and provide a useful range of wheel diameters and wheelbase dimensions, from the petite J15, Dean goods or C, via the 3F, 700 and 2251 to the somewhat chunkier J11 and 4F. Not least of the attractions is that a brake gear fit is provided which (purists look away now) will look better than the naked frames of 'Donald' if the correct gear isn't fitted in the conversion process. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNWR18901910 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 As I mentioned previously, I have an idea of turning it into a Freelance 2-6-0 locomotive using the G&SWR Austrian Goods as a main inspiration as well as the Bachmann Donald model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 As I mentioned previously, I have an idea of turning it into a Freelance 2-6-0 locomotive using the G&SWR Austrian Goods as a main inspiration as well as the Bachmann Donald model. Interesting. The bulk and pitch of the boiler barrel might favour conversion to a 403. I don't know the w/b, but this is a 5' class, so would you be fitting larger wheels? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNWR18901910 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Interesting. The bulk and pitch of the boiler barrel might favour conversion to a 403. I don't know the w/b, but this is a 5' class, so would you be fitting larger wheels? I'm afraid that would take longer and be too complicated so the wheels it has got are fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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