Hornby restaurant coaches?

[phil gollin]

.

 

Is a "van second", what we ignorant call "Brake seconds" ?

 

I note that the WR have both "van seconds" and "B.R. Brake Compos".

 

?????

 

.

[robertcwp]

.

 

Is a "van second", what we ignorant call "Brake seconds" ?

 

I note that the WR have both "van seconds" and "B.R. Brake Compos".

 

?????

 

.

Yes, Van Second is a brake second. The WR used Brake Compo possibly because such carriages typically had much smaller van areas than the brake seconds.

[jamespetts]

Here are some pictures of the recently released Hornby Maunsell restaurant car running on the MRC test track.

[Oldddudders]

Here are some pictures of the recently released Hornby Maunsell restaurant car running on the MRC test track.

 

Ooh - and a D15! Not yer everyday model in any scale!

[Ian Hargrave]

Ooh - and a D15! Not yer everyday model in any scale!

Indeed.A superb model with performance to match.Worth going the extra mile for IMHO. Owners of feedback controllers note it has a coreless motor.Looks the business at the head of a rake of Maunsells.

[coachmann]

Something different....

 

[trevor7598]

Something different....

 

WEB Maunsell Diner 12.jpg

 

Stunning, Sir !. And the best rendition of Blood & Custard I've seen yet.

Edited August 27, 2018 by trevor7598

[Stanley Melrose]

Does anyone know whether any of the Maunsell coaches (modelled by Hornby) would have found their way in late 1950s BR days to the Liverpool/Manchester/Preston areas?  If so, on what services?

 

Stan

[Robin Brasher]

I am sorry that I don't know the answer to the last question about Maunsell coaches visiting North West England.

 

There is a detailed review of the restaurant cars in the September Railway Magazine Guide to Modelling.

[RFS]

Does anyone know whether any of the Maunsell coaches (modelled by Hornby) would have found their way in late 1950s BR days to the Liverpool/Manchester/Preston areas?  If so, on what services?

 

Stan

 

Have a look at the Southern coach sets file on the SEMG web-site - http://www.semgonline.com/coach/sets.html

 

In particular, sets 458 and 459 include one of these cars on the Bournemouth-Newcastle and Bournemouth-Birkenhead services. 

 

That's if you need an excuse, of course!

Edited August 27, 2018 by RFS

[GreenGiraffe22]

Question to the jury, while I wait for the open third to accompany my restaurant car, and the beautiful H2 to pull it, I've aquired a 3rd Class Pullman to join the train, my question is would you put it next to the first class dining, or the other side of the kitchen? On one hand it is 3rd class but arguably more luxurious than the first class on the Maunsell restaurant

 

I've always wondered why we had 3rd class Pullmans, 3rd class luxury travel just seems like a bit of an odd concept... What do you get in a 1st class Pullman that you don't get in a 3rd class Pullman?

[jamespetts]

I am not sure about the exact differences between first and third class Pullman carriages, but I do not think that a Pullman car would ever be in the same train as a railway company dining car: the Pullman company was generally about at-seat meal services, so one would have a Pullman kitchen car to go with a Pullman parlour car.

 

Also, the H2 would not have hauled the Southern restaurant cars, as they were used only on the ex-LSWR lines; the H2 would have hauled trains containing a Pullman car to places such as Brighton (before 1926) or Newhaven, Bognor Regis, etc.. This is because the LSWR had its own catering facilities, but the LBSCR and SECR used Pullman carriages instead; unlike with the LMS, which abolished Pulman services (which had been used extensively on the Midland, but were not at all used on the LNWR), this practice continued throughout the whole of the grouping period.

[GreenGiraffe22]

I guess that means it's entirely up to me =) I currently have a Merchant Navy on a Brighton - Sailsbury complete with Maunsell dining facilities

 

My H2 shall be doing Brighton - Bournemouth, inspired by photos of 32421 on that route in the early 50s, mine shall just be a decade or so earlier with a splash of rule 1 in the consist

[woodenhead]

And a heavy dousing of Rule #2: See rule 1

[Steamport Southport]

Question to the jury, while I wait for the open third to accompany my restaurant car, and the beautiful H2 to pull it, I've aquired a 3rd Class Pullman to join the train, my question is would you put it next to the first class dining, or the other side of the kitchen? On one hand it is 3rd class but arguably more luxurious than the first class on the Maunsell restaurant

 

I've always wondered why we had 3rd class Pullmans, 3rd class luxury travel just seems like a bit of an odd concept... What do you get in a 1st class Pullman that you don't get in a 3rd class Pullman?

 

The First Class SR facilities weren't inferior to the Third Class Pullman facilities. It would be like for like. The reason the LMS and GWR didn't use Pullmans as there own facilities were so much better. As were trains such as the Coronation and Flying Scotsman.

 

 

Third Class Pullmans existed so that you could pay the supplement and get a meal. They were just a Third Class Dining Car. Probably a bit of snobbery coming in to play as well, like people who fly Business Class just to tell everyone they flew Business.

 

 

Pullmans were just a case of outsourcing facilities like many railway companies do now. Nothing else. I think people have this romantic view that Pullmans were significantly better, they weren't. It's worth reading the George Behrend books on them. Apparently the Brighton Belle was terrible, but you got a breakfast on it so people used it.

 

To answer the question. No you wouldn't have a Pullman in the same train as a normal restaurant car as it would be pointless. It was one or the other.

 

 

 

Jason

[GreenGiraffe22]

I had every intention of being strictly prototypical when I started out on this Southern 1940s venture, and then lovely out of theme Southern Railway items started appearing, although, the layout has always been named 'Sussex 1943 - ish' so meh!

[Steamport Southport]

I had every intention of being strictly prototypical when I started out on this Southern 1940s venture, and then lovely out of theme Southern Railway items started appearing, although, the layout has always been named 'Sussex 1943 - ish' so meh!

 

Is it worth pointing out that the Pullmans were put in storage during the war then?

 

 

 

 

Jason

Edited September 18, 2018 by Steamport Southport

[GreenGiraffe22]

Is it worth pointing out that the Pullmans were put in storage during the war then?

 

 

 

 

Jason

 

I'm aware of that, I think my layout just has 1930s days, we'll ignore the downed 109 on one corner

[Oldddudders]

The First Class SR facilities weren't inferior to the Third Class Pullman facilities. It would be like for like. The reason the LMS and GWR didn't use Pullmans as there own facilities were so much better. As were trains such as the Coronation and Flying Scotsman.

 

 

Third Class Pullmans existed so that you could pay the supplement and get a meal. They were just a Third Class Dining Car. Probably a bit of snobbery coming in to play as well, like people who fly Business Class just to tell everyone they flew Business.

 

 

Pullmans were just a case of outsourcing facilities like many railway companies do now. Nothing else. I think people have this romantic view that Pullmans were significantly better, they weren't. It's worth reading the George Behrend books on them. Apparently the Brighton Belle was terrible, but you got a breakfast on it so people used it.

 

To answer the question. No you wouldn't have a Pullman in the same train as a normal restaurant car as it would be pointless. It was one or the other.

 

 

 

Jason

Why was the Brighton Belle terrible? Even in its last years, when I rode it several times, it was a rather better way to travel than the Cig/Big formations that ran in the other hourly fast Brighton slots. Of course the ride was distinctly 30s, but the ambience was still of that era, and the famous furore when kippers were removed from the menu circa 1970 told a tale of customer loyalty. It was a sad day when I watched the final Belle leave Victoria, to a fanfare of horns from other trains.

[Steamport Southport]

Why was the Brighton Belle terrible? Even in its last years, when I rode it several times, it was a rather better way to travel than the Cig/Big formations that ran in the other hourly fast Brighton slots. Of course the ride was distinctly 30s, but the ambience was still of that era, and the famous furore when kippers were removed from the menu circa 1970 told a tale of customer loyalty. It was a sad day when I watched the final Belle leave Victoria, to a fanfare of horns from other trains.

 

I am only going on what is said in books, particularly books like Don't Knock The Southern by George Behrend. There was also a documentary on it on the BBC recently which said the same thing.

 

If it wasn't for the "hammy" actors that lived in Brighton then I think it would have went years before. Who really ate kippers for breakfast in the 1970s? Most people would be eating corn flakes or getting food in the office canteen. More likely a cup of coffee and a sandwich.

 

I think the days of needing restaurant car facilities on a journey lasting less than an hour were well gone.

 

 

 

Jason

[brushman47544]

I am only going on what is said in books, particularly books like Don't Knock The Southern by George Behrend. There was also a documentary on it on the BBC recently which said the same thing.

 

If it wasn't for the "hammy" actors that lived in Brighton then I think it would have went years before. Who really ate kippers for breakfast in the 1970s? Most people would be eating corn flakes or getting food in the office canteen. More likely a cup of coffee and a sandwich.

 

I think the days of needing restaurant car facilities on a journey lasting less than an hour were well gone.

 

 

 

Jason

 

The Brighton lot took their on-train breakfasts seriously even after the Belle finished. In later years, BR decided to stop selling freshly made toast (or was it bacon sarnies?) from the buffets in the 4-BIGs and there was un uproar about that too.

Edited September 18, 2018 by brushman47544

[adb968008]

The Brighton lot took their on-train breakfasts seriously even after the Belle finished. In later years, BR decided to stop selling freshly made toast (or was it bacon sarnies?) from the buffets in the 4-BIGs and there was un uproar about that too.

On board food on Southern ? That’s obviously before my time.

The only catering I’ve seen onboard from victoria, is post 10pm services .. usually consisting of Burger King from the barrier near platform 9, or worse... kebabs of unknown heritage.

Edited September 18, 2018 by adb968008

[Oldddudders]

On board food on Southern ? That’s obviously before my time.

The only catering I’ve seen onboard from victoria, is post 10pm services .. usually consisting of Burger King from the barrier near platform 9, or worse... kebabs of unknown heritage.

Back in the early 70s, the part of BritishTransport Hotels that morphed into Travellers Fare launched a campaign called Tasty Bite, and I think the Southern BEPs and Bigs were the first to have this rolled out. It was easy-to-prepare stuff like a croque monsieur, I think, from an era when burgers had not quite taken over the fast food market.

 

And drinks and spirits were popular. I found after early turn that a whisky and American dry ginger ale went down quite well between Sutton and Dorking. And if the unit was 4 BEP 7001, buffet car S69000, it seemed to taste even better.

[adb968008]

And drinks and spirits were popular. I found after early turn that a whisky and American dry ginger ale went down quite well between Sutton and Dorking. And if the unit was 4 BEP 7001, buffet car S69000, it seemed to taste even better.

Ooh that makes it worse !!!

 

That’s my line, a buffet car your kidding me, aside of Sutton station buffet (your better eating used cardboard), your only hope is if the platform vending machine is open, plugged in, getting electric, isn’t empty, broken, vandalised... even then it’s a 50/50 that the can of coke is still in date.

 

A buffet to Dorking... if I write a book that will be its title.

Edited September 18, 2018 by adb968008

[TheSignalEngineer]

Does anyone know whether any of the Maunsell coaches (modelled by Hornby) would have found their way in late 1950s BR days to the Liverpool/Manchester/Preston areas?  If so, on what services?

 

Stan

I am only aware (so far) of the catering vehicles running to Birkenhead. See posts #548 and #552 for details of the workings from Bournemouth and Margate in 1957

Edited September 18, 2018 by TheSignalEngineer