Jon Fitness Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 Some rather poor pics of the 6 compartment brake. I'll post some better ones when the weather allows! You can just see the guards compartment interior which IMO is all thats needed. More soon JF 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack P Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Jon, I'm quite sure that I'm not the only one that thinks you should change the name of this thread from average, to excellent. Those coaches really are the latter. Jack 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted March 24, 2013 Author Share Posted March 24, 2013 Ah Jack! there's many better than I out there! I'll stick at average, that way I can keep the "bar" where I can reach it. As Clint Eastwood said.." A man's got to know his limitations".... Cheers anyway JF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Jon, I'm quite sure that I'm not the only one that thinks you should change the name of this thread from average, to excellent. Those coaches really are the latter. Jack I second that remark! Colin 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted March 31, 2013 Author Share Posted March 31, 2013 As a break from coaches, it's time for a quick wagon kit! Our layout has the startings of a ballast train (just a few assorted hoppers at the moment) and needs a suitable brake van. A rummage in the "round tuit" box brought up a PRMRP Shark plough brake which I bought a couple of years ago... With the exception of a bit of extra internal bodywork bracing, I think this will be a straight build; rivets will not be counted and finer details not agonised over! Here is the kit unwrapped with an old set of HOG wheels added. First job is snip off the main bodywork from the fret. All the tabs were filed off, the rivets punched out from the back and the fold lines scored a couple of times with an old scalpel (well it looked old by the time I'd done it!) The buffer beams fold down but there is no half etch fold line for that so a few strokes with the scalpel helped this was then the first fold.. followed by the main bodywork. More soon JF 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted April 1, 2013 Author Share Posted April 1, 2013 There are 2 little tabs at each end (ringed in red) that aren't mentioned in the instructions. These fold up on to the ends and represent a couple of brackets on the prototype. Tack solder the ends at the corners and check for squareness. Once correctly aligned solder the corner joints top to bottom checking that they don't "open out" as you do so. I'm not sure if it was my dodgy folding but folding the ends in showed a gap along the base just above the buffer beam. I used a length of 1.5mm square tube at each end to fill and strengthen the joint. Next job is the inner partitions. They locate in a groove in the floor (arrowed) and align with the edge of the body at the opening for the guards access door. Be careful not to use much solder next to where the windows are so that the glazing can be easily fitted later! At this stage I decided the body would benefit from some strengthening. I started with a piece of 2mm square tube centrally between the partitions, level with the roof line. I then went along the edges at cantrail level with lengths of 1.5mm square tube. These were held in place with little wooden pegs to stop the joint from seperating during the soldering. Once the bracing was added a strong structure resulted. I realise I could have strengthened the sides with one full length of tube on each side but I was a bit concerned about affecting the top corners of the partition windows. The design of the kit makes it IMO almost impossible to solder the roof on without making a mess so my intention is to roll the roof a little "tighter" than the radius of the body's roofline, then drag it down tight with a couple of 14BA CSK bolts through the roof and strengtheners. The strengthening will stop any tendency for the body to bow in whilst still allowing the roof to be removed should I get any future irrational urge to detail the interior! Next job was the handrails. I used 0.7mm brass rod from Alan Gibson for this. The holes in the bodysides are a little er..generous, but this does give a bit of leeway if like mine, your wire bending skills are a bit variable! Space the wires from the body during soldering with strips of card (cereal packet thickness will do!) Solder from the inside and trim off the excess with snips. More soon JF 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian G Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 I have 121 pictures in/arounds and underneath the quainton Shark if you need any pic for detailing. Ian G 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted April 1, 2013 Author Share Posted April 1, 2013 I have 121 pictures in/arounds and underneath the quainton Shark if you need any pic for detailing. Ian G Ah! Most kind Ian... As previously stated I'm not going overboard with the details but I wouldn't mind some pictures from inside the "wheel house" at each end! Cheers Jon F. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted April 2, 2013 Author Share Posted April 2, 2013 So far so good... Time for some duckets or whatever they're called. The outer frames of these have the little window sections to fold out. I used my home made mini bending bars for this.. The outer "skin" is formed to match the contours of the little window sections and fits between these edges with a small section extending into the body to help locate the assembly. A little dexterity was required to hold everything inline whilst the iron was weilded but I think I got away with it. When I attempted to get the assembled ducket to sit square in the hole it refused.. A few strokes with a file along the bottom towards the left side and along the right side of the top edge was enough to square the hole. Solder was run along the top and bottom joints and I checked all was OK. I didn't risk going down the sides as they seemed solidly located and I'd been lucky enough to avoid stray solder leaking out and didn't want to risk spoiling it! Next on the list was the solebars. These required a few rivets to be punched out and a 90degree folded flange along the bottom. Again the mini benders were used and a reasonably neat fold was obtained. In the floor of the bodyshell there are small tabs that fold down along each side (and a V hanger too except mine snapped off!...) These are used to locate the solebars. I tacked them to these tabs with 188 solder and checked for alignment. I would have used 188 to solder all the way along them but the iron I was using seemed to run out of puff so 145 was used! Thats more than enough pictures for one go so... more soon JF 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 (edited) Hi Jon, You can never have too many pictures - especially of the quality you are posting! I am almost tempted to have a go at an etched kit seeing the method explained so clearly. It looks like you have all the right specialised tools for bending and folding etc.. All the best, Colin Edited April 2, 2013 by Colin parks 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted April 2, 2013 Author Share Posted April 2, 2013 Hi Jon, You can never have too many pictures - especially of the quality you are posting! I am almost tempted to have a go at an etched kit seeing the method explained so clearly. It looks like you have all the right specialised tools for bending and folding etc.. All the best, Colin Hi Colin, I must admit, I like PRMRP wagon kits. They're not modern but they're simple basic and well designed. They're well drawn and etched and generally fit together square and accurately, but most importantly, they don't have too many bits so you "get a wagon" fairly quickly! Most of the simple bends were either done by hand and eye or using my home made clamps/bending bars. I've got a rivet punch and some rollers but I haven't splashed out on any "hold&fold" thingies or jigs yet but I may have to for my next kit! Anyway, you're a scratchbuilder of some repute I believe, so building a kit should be a breeze for you ! Cheers JF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted April 3, 2013 Author Share Posted April 3, 2013 (edited) I'm noth sure wether it's my dodgy bending or not but fitting the sole bars has shown up a gap at each headstock! I used some scrap etch to take up the slack, trimming it off as I went. Although I'm not ready to use them yet, I decided to make up the steps. These are the bottom steps. They are laminated from 2 layers. The bottom layer has the step hangers which are bent up at 90deg and the top layer has a lip at the back which is also bent up at 90deg I cleaned up the bits, clamped them together with mini pegs and ran the iron round the edge with a bit of 188 solder. The upper steps on each side are folded up and laminated too and run the full length of the solebar. I folded up the little tags at the back thinking they were going to act as brackets...WRONG!. Further investigations revealed (not in the instructions) that the folded up lower solebar flange had slots within the fold designed to take the tabs. Fortunately I hadn't soldered the little tabs in the upright position so they were bent down flat again! More of these later... The lockers that run the full width of the veranda are formed from a simple 90deg fold. The lower edge has 2 tabs..... which click nicely into 2 tabs in the floor These were soldered from under the floor and one end held so well just from these tabs that I didn't bother to add any solder above floor level! (The other end I think I'll hide from view.....) As the camera battery has gasped it's last and I've not got my charger with me that'll do for now... JF Edited April 3, 2013 by Jon Fitness 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted April 4, 2013 Author Share Posted April 4, 2013 OK, more on the footboards.. Having straightened the tabs the boards are ready to fit. The slots were cleaned out with an old scalpel blade and a bit of a chamfer filed on the tabs to make it easier to get them in the slots. The boards were then slotted in and a dab of solder applied to the tabs where they showed behind the solebars. Veranda doors next. It's now time to start on the fiddly bits. Lamp brackets are folded up and slotted into the body. Where I could get behind them I soldered where the tabs poked through. In my haste to fit the lockers I of course blocked access to the back of half of them so some tricky work with the iron followed. A bit wonky and some cleaning up required.... At each corner there are body bracing straps. The T shaped ones are "handed". These have to be folded and soldered carefully on. I used tiny (by my standards) amounts of 145 solder for these. I just got the technique sort of right by the time I was fitting the last one.... Next up is the plough controls. These are the bits laid out except for the "ship's wheels" as I intend to spray these white and fit them once the rest of the van is painted. The stay frame was soldered to the wheel post first with 145. This was then held in position with tweezers ( a bit awkward with the roof stay in position!) and soldered to the veranda floor. The stay was then secured to the end of the veranda. Underneath the wagon there is the vacuum brake gear. The link from the brake standard was laminated from 2 layers and the vac cylinder mounted on a frame. I left it free to rotate on the frame to make it easier to position....which due to my inability to process more than one page of instructions at a time and look at all the pictures I have... managed to solder it neatly in the wrong position. Hmph. I'll now have to move it to the other side of the V hanger or I won't be able to fit the wheels/brakes in. More mistakes soon (no doubt...) JF 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted April 5, 2013 Author Share Posted April 5, 2013 The little clip for the destination card fits in a recess on the bodyside. I drilled a hole in the recess so I could solder it from behind. I must remember to fit the little handrails on the solebars! The W irons/springs are a nice clean whitemetal casting and are designed so that the axleboxes fit solidly in a square hole. This is OK if the holes are all the same, the W irons are all perfectly in line, the axlebox holes are the same in each box etc...! Loads of variables for me to get wrong here!! Anyway, the axleboxes all needed the bearing holes clearing out with a 2.5mm drill and brass top hat bearings pressing in. . Using rivet detail on the solebars as a guide I soldered all 4 Ws on, making as many checks for alignment as I could. Luckily the whole thing sat nice and square on its Ws on a piece of glass without any rocking about. A quick loose test of the axleboxes/wheels in position showed one set spot on and the other a tiny bit out of square. This was cured by filing a little out of the hole in one of the the Ws. Note that the offending Vac cylinder has been moved to it's rightful position and I've beefed up the main brake rod from 0.7mm to 1mm diameter! To make things a bit easier the axle boxes on one side were tacked in position while I set the brake hanger castings in position by the wheels. Further tests showed a distinct rock with the wheels in place! This was probably due to my drilling one of the axleboxes slightly off. The offending one was identified and about 0.5mm filed off the bottom of the boss that fitted into the W, allowing it to sit lower. It rocks no more! Apart from the obvious lack of ballast ploughs (for now), just the stretchers between the brakeblocks to fit under here now! I'll leave one sides worth of axleboxes loose so that I can remove the wheels during painting. I'll chemically blacken the wheels (steel ones from Home of O gauge..remember them?) and re assemble it all afterwards. More later. JF 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack P Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Coming along really nicely John! I like the look of the (relatively) close wheels! Jack 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted April 5, 2013 Author Share Posted April 5, 2013 Coming along really nicely John! I like the look of the (relatively) close wheels! Jack Hi Jack, Yes they are a bit strange looking but they look a bit better balanced with the ploughs on! They must have been a bit rough riding in real life with a wheelbase that small . Cheers Jon F 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted April 6, 2013 Author Share Posted April 6, 2013 (edited) Nearly there now. Time for the dreaded ploughs; the instructions assure you that if you bend/form the plough blades correctly it'll all fit perfectly. As I struggle to get to "average", "correctly" is pushing it a bit for me. My first attempt at forming a plough blade was going quite well until I realised I'd formed it inside out... The shape looked right and the curves met correctly to form a nice curved blade shape at the front but the half etch is meant to be on the inside. The actual size and shape are identical either way round so I decided to leave it like that. The addition of the "rail clearance gussetts" with my comedy approximation of a curve over the cut outs completed what looked like the prow of a ship that had crashed into the dockside. So, does it fit where it's meant to? Not quite. As much as I tweeked, bent, altered, squashed, pushed, swore etc, it would fit into the V shaped blade carrier but wouldn't clear the W irons or sit under the step boards as it should. It needed to have a wider and shorter profile and this wouldn't happen without distorting it. The only option was start again with the other one, get that to fit then modify the first one to match. The blade carrier folded and ready to fit. The 2 lugs at the top solder into half etched recesses in the floor behind the buffer beam. The componet parts of the plough blade Forming the curve round a handy handle Once formed, I tacked the 2 halves top and bottom to give me a bit of "adjustability" whilst trial fitting was carried out Getting a good fit left the plough this shape! The gap between the 2 halves had to stay to ensure it fitted. This didn't really matter as only a small part of the blade "prow" is on show once fitted. A piece of scrap etch was brutally soldered over the gap to give strength and 3 brackets made from more offcuts to position it behind the blade carrier (no other method is provided or even suggested) . As this seemed successful (if a bit scruffy), the other blade was unsoldered and similarly abused until it fitted. With that job out of the way the cast whitemetal buffers were fitted with 145 solder. The holes for these are way too big so they were carefully centralised first. Decision time; I wanted to securely fit the lower footboards before painting but these go over and trap the axleboxes. With the axleboxes trapped, the wheels can't be fitted or removed and I wanted to paint the thing first before the wheels went in! As fixing the boards on securely meant soldering and bracing the stays which would mean cleaning paint off to solder them on then more painting etc, I thought sod it....assemble it all and paint everything, wheels and all!. True to form, the ploughs were still causing problems with the lower boards fouling these. Checking a few prototype photos showed the boards were shortened to fit so I did likewise. These were then fitted and the stays strengthened with some 1.5mm square tube. With the boards on thats about all I can do for now. When stood on a piece of track, it sits square and doesn't rock (amazingly) but the rather short wheelbase accentuates a bit (a lot!) of sideplay in the axleboxes. A test run will show me if that is a problem. Remaining jobs? Roll the roof, add a stove pipe and sort out a fixing method for it (small CSK bolts into threaded holes in the roof struts?) Couplings, Screw at one end ,Dingham hook at the other. Vac pipes (whitemetal supplied but I'll probably make my own from guitar wire for strength) Brake yokes (the whitemetal ones supplied were too short by about 5mm!) A good tidy up and clean should then leave it ready for paint next week. Looks reasonably "Sharky" and hopefully a coat of Engineers Olive and a dose of weathering should cover up the dodgy bits and C/Us. More Soon JF Edited April 6, 2013 by Jon Fitness 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgeT Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Morning JF, Must say you have made a cracking job on the shark, thanks to your excellent step by step pictures and guides has prompted me to buy one soon, like to see it when its all finished.. georgeT 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted April 14, 2013 Author Share Posted April 14, 2013 Got some paint on the Shark (should have been matt but came out a bit shiny! If I'd wanted it the opposite way round....) I have also attempted to make some transfers up with Crafty Computer waterslide sheet. For some reason, even though the paper is fairly new and regardless of what I set the print quality to, the results were a bit average to say the least. Never mind, I'm sure it'll all blend in with a good dose of weathering.... . Once this one is finished I have a loco to do next... JF 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Bel Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 (edited) Hi John, A really excellent step by step guide. I like the simplicty of the PRMP kits. I have built a few now and they go together quite easily and look like what they are supposed to be. I rebuilt a Shark many years ago and it now resides in the permanent way train on Rockmoss, you have probably seen and operated it! Once again an excellent thread, looking forward to your loco! Cheers for now, Ian Edited April 14, 2013 by 5Bel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Pulham Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 That's very nice Jon, I have had similar results with transfer papers (not Crafty) but it worked in my favour as I wanted faded. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
(The) Youth Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Nice work on the shark, keeps making me want to do a short rake of mmp dogfishs with a shark on the rearer for a club layout. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted April 14, 2013 Author Share Posted April 14, 2013 That's very nice Jon, I have had similar results with transfer papers (not Crafty) but it worked in my favour as I wanted faded. Nice work on the shark, keeps making me want to do a short rake of mmp dogfishs with a shark on the rearer for a club layout. Simon Hi John, A really excellent step by step guide. I like the simplicty of the PRMP kits. I have built a few now and they go together quite easily and look like what they are supposed to be. I rebuilt a Shark many years ago and it now resides in the permanent way train on Rockmoss, you have probably seen and operated it! Once again an excellent thread, looking forward to your loco! Cheers for now, Ian Thanks all, much appreciated! I've built a couple of PR kits before and they've been OK but I have a few Dogfish and Catfish to build from EKMDE (I think, I'll have to look in the round tuit box). I've no idea how good or bad they are yet! Cheers JF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Interesting. I have one or two PRMRP kits lurking, inluding Grampus, TTA, and three or four Seacows, partly built by A.N.Other. On a scale of 1-10, how would you rate the instructions? (1 is obviously "could be much better", while 10 is "perfect, needs nothing added or amended"). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted April 15, 2013 Author Share Posted April 15, 2013 Interesting. I have one or two PRMRP kits lurking, inluding Grampus, TTA, and three or four Seacows, partly built by A.N.Other. On a scale of 1-10, how would you rate the instructions? (1 is obviously "could be much better", while 10 is "perfect, needs nothing added or amended"). They're not too bad, probably a 5 or 6 as supplied but in the case of the Shark, a slightly better version (7-8) is downloadable from the PRMRP website. Not sure about the others but they are the sort of kits that, if you've built something like them before, you could almost do without the instructions. I've built a Seacow and one of the CCT's which was fun. I've also finished off a part built Deltic (sold on) and partially re-built a class 60 from the same stable. Cheers JF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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