The future of loco kit building

[Clive Mortimore]

On board train power independent of the track has been possible for many years, clockwork. I can recall reading about the Sherwood Section model railway in the 1960s, O guage clockwork and it looked a wonderful railway. From memory the number of turns on the key would be counted and if correctly done the loco would haul the train between two stations and halt at the destination platform. It was worked to a timetable. No harm in looking at what has been used in the past as well as what may be available in the near future.

[coachmann]

Triang did a clockwork 0-6-0 mecahnism for those who fancy converting their Bachmann SE&CR 'C' class............

[Clive Mortimore]

Triang did a clockwork 0-6-0 mecahnism for those who fancy converting their Bachmann SE&CR 'C' class............

 

I think it more suitable for their Jinty....well it does have a hole in the side tank for the key

[billbedford]

See this thread for info about existing systems for small scale models

[Simon Moore]

To chuck my 2 penneth in

 

Although i enjoy this hobby greatly & like all aspects of the hobby there are certain areas in which the serious modelers enjoy more. I've always been a very creative person & since i was a youngster i have always enjoyed making things. It started with Airfix kit's & lego & the enjoyment of making things has moved with me to the hobby of railway modeling.

 

I always wanted to have a go at building a loco but never felt i had the skill & attempted a couple of etched & white metal kits which didnt ever run but i learnt things about brass & soldering as i went along. It wasn't until i made a Craftsman Johnson 1F kit which moved under its own power freely did i actually feel i had achieved something. The model is nowhere near perfect & for the cost of it i could have bought a Bachmann Jinty for half the price but i guess this is where the thing about kit building is for me.

 

I bought the kit & had the enjoyment of building it & this came again recently when i mentioned something in a thread on here. I'm currently finishing off a PDK Models J19/2 in OO gauge which is the first loco i will have finished to completion with every part in the right place. The kit has been so enjoyable & a dream to put together. There have been challenges thrown up & i've had to think about various things before doing them & its been an enjoyable couple of months so far & the excitement of seeing it completed is worth every penny i have spent & all the hours i have put into making it.

 

I mentioned that my next kit was going to be a B12/3 from PDK & someone said you may not have to build one if Hornby release a revamped model on December the 17th. My answer was simply that i would still want to pay more & build it myself because i have the enjoyment of making it, researching it & then having the pleasure of watching it run afterwards which makes it more a personal model than a mass produced thing that everyone can own.

 

When i started making etched kits i had no skills in soldering, i didnt know anything about metal work but after a quick read on here & trail & error many times over i have learned myself various skills & although i would not class myself as a kit builder by any stretch of the margin i can put a loco together & i can get them to run which makes me happy to see something i made working.

 

I think as long as there are people like myself who get the enjoyment from making a loco there will always be kits. I think it also shows when the various kit manufactures are still releasing new etched kits.

 

Simon

[t-b-g]

Well said Simon, I agree with you 100%. I would rather have a less than perfect model that I have made than a perfect one out of the box any time.

 

To me, kits are not about saving money, or about trying to beat RTR models on quality. Kits are about the satisfaction of seeing something running that you have built for yourself. They are about learning some real skills and then making use of them.

 

The simple act of taking two bits of metal, cleaning them up and soldering them together square, with a strong neat joint is not a hugely difficult thing to master but it is immensely satisfying and a much more worthwhile accomplishment (to me at least) than the ability to open a Hornby/Bachmann/Dapol/Heljan box.

 

The fact that we are at page 42 with over 1000 postings would make me think that there are a lot of people who care a great deal about the future of kit building.

[N15class]

Before I started selling most models I make. I found kit building for myself as a pleasure a very cheap hobby. If you where to spend say £200 on a kit. Spent 3 month building it, waht over hobby cost so little per hour. My golf is 3 times that for maybe 1 or 2 games a week.

You get a RTR model for a similar amount you will be looking to buy more within same time frame. So to me kit building is not an expensive way to get locos but a cheap way to enjoy a very good hobby.

[highpeak]

I think Simon hit the nail very squarely there. My kit building skews more towards wagons, though I am slowly doing a Brassmasters conversion for the Bachmann 3F and enjoying it immensely. There is something very satisfying about seeing what was a flat sheet of etched brass become a recognisable component and then a loco or whatever.

 

This thread has discussed at some length what we want in a kit, and among all the different views I think a consensus emerges that we like good design, we want something buildable and we like to have choices. I think we also like a bit of a challenge. In a way, it's a bit like a crossword puzzle, we want to be able to finish it, but we want to be challenged a bit along the way, not to the point where we throw the book in the bin, but where we have to scratch our head a bit.

 

The 3F tender drag beam called for using the little plastic buffers from the Bachmann tender. I was a bit dubious about this as I wasn't sure of a glued joint between plastic and brass. In the end, the plastic ones turned out to be too well glued in to the plastic frame and broke. I pondered my options, dug around in my box of scrap and found some brass tube about the same diameter as the buffer, some rod that fit snugly in the tube and soon had a brass replacement. To an old-hand, no big deal. To a rookie, a sense of achievement and a confidence builder that I can sort kits out and go on to buy another one. Which surely is part of the future of kit building?

[Mrkirtley800]

Well said Simon and Tony. When I decided I wanted something other than Triang and Hornby Dublo (I am now talking of the early fifties). Yes I am older than I look although my wife disputes that.

I always favoured the Midland Railway, so in 1957 decided on pre-grouping in EM and since there was very little in terms of ready to run there was no alternative to some form of scratch building. My first attempt was a Johnson 2-4-0, which looked ---well---OK except the boiler was not parallel to the footplate. It sloped down towards the front and I eventually gave it away.

But the summer of 1959 was a cracker with wall to wall sunshine for montrhs. I was working towards my finals - a degree in chemistry - and working at home. For relaxation I built a MR class 3 4-4-0 with bogie tender. It was done outside, using my mother's concrete coal bunker as a bench and my dad's copper soldering iron heated up on the gas and killed spirits (Bakers fluid) as a flux. That loco is still running albeit now with a bit more detail and much better wheels and motor.

I have to admit, my dad was a sheet metal worker, and could do anything in wood or metal, like a lot of people in those days. So I was able to solder two pieces of tin can together when I was 5 years old.

Over the years I have built many locos from scratch or kits because I enjoy it, but in those far off days, if there had been ready to run midland locos -- well I'm not sure if I would have done it.

But the moral to me is that loco building is not rocket science. You only need basic tools which I would imagine most modellers have got, a drawing and some decent piccies. Honestly, the hardest part of it is making a start.

Here is my 3P, painted by Coachman Larry about 1972-ish, but fully 53 years old. It can't hold a candle to many folk's efforts, the late a very much lamented Malcolm Crawley for example, but it satisfies me, and that;s what really matters.

Derek

[coachmann]

By gum Derek MrKirtley800, that loco is going back into the sounds of the nation. I had only been given a pot of MR lake by the works manager a few years before and the paint must have gone to my head, as I was advertising meself as the Midland Railway specialist! You very kindly built me a Kirtley 0-4-4 Well Tank around that time, which I displayed for many years in a case. We were all a bit younger then......

[t-b-g]

Well said Simon and Tony. When I decided I wanted something other than Triang and Hornby Dublo (I am now talking of the early fifties). Yes I am older than I look although my wife disputes that.

I always favoured the Midland Railway, so in 1957 decided on pre-grouping in EM and since there was very little in terms of ready to run there was no alternative to some form of scratch building. My first attempt was a Johnson 2-4-0, which looked ---well---OK except the boiler was not parallel to the footplate. It sloped down towards the front and I eventually gave it away.

But the summer of 1959 was a cracker with wall to wall sunshine for montrhs. I was working towards my finals - a degree in chemistry - and working at home. For relaxation I built a MR class 3 4-4-0 with bogie tender. It was done outside, using my mother's concrete coal bunker as a bench and my dad's copper soldering iron heated up on the gas and killed spirits (Bakers fluid) as a flux. That loco is still running albeit now with a bit more detail and much better wheels and motor.

I have to admit, my dad was a sheet metal worker, and could do anything in wood or metal, like a lot of people in those days. So I was able to solder two pieces of tin can together when I was 5 years old.

Over the years I have built many locos from scratch or kits because I enjoy it, but in those far off days, if there had been ready to run midland locos -- well I'm not sure if I would have done it.

But the moral to me is that loco building is not rocket science. You only need basic tools which I would imagine most modellers have got, a drawing and some decent piccies. Honestly, the hardest part of it is making a start.

Here is my 3P, painted by Coachman Larry about 1972-ish, but fully 53 years old. It can't hold a candle to many folk's efforts, the late a very much lamented Malcolm Crawley for example, but it satisfies me, and that;s what really matters.

Derek

 

Don't be to hard on yourself Derek, that is a gorgeous model. I don't know if he ever told you (he didn't usually give too much away!) but Malcolm used to rate your modelling very highly indeed.

 

That loco was built around the same time as folk like Peter Denny and Frank Dyer were doing their best work and it stands comparison very favourably.

 

Regards

 

Tony

[Mrkirtley800]

Thanks so much Tony, you have made my day.

Larry, remember these two. Both EM gauge but I built sister locos in 00 for you. IIncidentally, mrkirtley800, is a shortened Midland Railway Kirtley 800 (class), the 2-4-0 in the piccie, one of my favourite classes of loco.

Sorry about going on so much, dont want to take over this topic.

Derek

[Buckjumper]

Lovely locos, lovely scenes, though I have to admit that of the two I prefer the 780 class back tank.

[queensquare]

Lovely locos, lovely scenes, though I have to admit that of the two I prefer the 780 class back tank.

 

And you're normally such a sensible chap........Lovely as the back tank is it doesn't hold a candle to the 800, or the 3P come to that!!

 

Seriously, some lovely locos. What a beautiful colour that Midland red is.

 

Jerry

[Buckjumper]

And you're normally such a sensible chap........

 

Ha! Can't be helped; I've got a crush on 0-4-4T and 0-4-2T tanks of various persuasions, and I've got two of these in the S7 'to do' pile - one as a 780 and one as a 690.

 

But yes, the Midland red is a glorious colour, and Larry's artistry is superb.

[queensquare]

Ha! Can't be helped; I've got a crush on 0-4-4T and 0-4-2T tanks of various persuasions, and I've got two of these in the S7 'to do' pile - one as a 780 and one as a 690.

 

The amazing thing is they even turned up in North Somerset........

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/38581-highbury-colliery/page__st__175#entry668948

Apologies for going OT - I will post a picture of my MR 800 2-4-0 which does contain some bits from a shot down 4mm kit which will kind of bring things back into line. As others have said the fact that the thread is now into forty odd pages bodes well for the future of kit building.

 

Jerry

[Buckjumper]

The amazing thing is they even turned up in North Somerset........

 

...with condensing pipes! Must have been the lure of the cider

[Davey]

Firstly apologies if someone has made this point previously.

 

My take on the future of loco kit building is that it is a means to an end. If you are modelling something unusual, in my case the Hull & Barnsley Railway c.1908, in 7mm Scale7, then kit or scratch building is the only way forward. Laurie Griffin is planning to introduce a range of Hull & Barnsley 7mm locomotive kits as developed by Zenith Works and Roxey Mouldings is planning to introduce similar locomotives in 4mm scale, again as developed by Zenith Works. The chances of any of the R-T-R manufacturers introducing models of H & BR locos is as likely as me setting foot on the Moon, so as I say it is a means to an end.

 

Having said all that, nothing compares with the satisfaction of taking an etched kit and assembling it, to produce a finished locomotive. The other thing about producing a locomotive this way is that you learn so much more about the prototype. For those who haven't attempted it, go on, give it a try.

[JeffP]

I would think that another plus, IF you do it properly and IF the kit is up to it, is to have a model of a particular loco at a particular time.

 

Which is not always possible with RTR stuff.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Firstly apologies if someone has made this point previously.

 

Having said all that, nothing compares with the satisfaction of taking an etched kit and assembling it, to produce a finished locomotive. The other thing about producing a locomotive this way is that you learn so much more about the prototype. For those who haven't attempted it, go on, give it a try.

 

Davey,

 

there are those modellers like you that know this, those that are willing to learn it and the rest (the majority) who will never be persuaded in their lifetime. A look at the various wish list and frothing topics on RMWeb and other forums shows that "collecting" RTR products and all the surrounding hot air that goes with it, is perceived as more enjoyable and constructive than actually building models.

 

Jol

[DLT]

Having said all that, nothing compares with the satisfaction of taking an etched kit and assembling it, to produce a finished locomotive. The other thing about producing a locomotive this way is that you learn so much more about the prototype. For those who haven't attempted it, go on, give it a try.

Absolutely agree!

Dave.

[Mrkirtley800]

I agree with LNWR modeller, although many folks just need pointing in the right direction.

Back in 1961 I got a job in the Midlands. I had just finished my 3P and took into work to show a friend. He said he wished he could do something like that. We decided to have a go, so started a teaching session. I was in lodgings and was pretty free to do as I wanted..so off I went to his house every Wednesday evening for some loco building. We first decided on a Midland M class 0-6-0 since I had a drawing and that we would build one each.

First thing was to teach him how to solder. that done we could make a start. The main frames were 1.5 mm nickel silver strip, but shaped more or less as drawn and the axle holes drilled with a Black and Decker and finished off with a reamer.. Months went by and we both finished up with a loco which worked.

I left for anothewr job shortly afterwards, leaving him in the process of building a LNWR G2 0-8-0.

Exactly the same thing happened when I arrived at my new job in Scarborough. A friend who thought he couldn't build a loco being given a nudge in the right direction. We built a NER class P (LNER J27) each at sessions at my house in Seamer Very soon he had a B1, B16, G5 etc. Much later he turned to '0' gauge and carried on kit and scratch building.

The common denominator in both these examples was encouragement and instilling confidence. I would think that many modellers do have the skills, just need a bit of help.to get started.

 

Derek

[DLT]

The common denominator in both these examples was encouragement and instilling confidence. I would think that many modellers do have the skills, just need a bit of help.to get started. Derek

Quite so, I was heavily influenced and encouraged by some very fine modellers when I first joined a club as a teenager. Nowadays I always try to provide advice and encouragement where I can, and try to dispell some of the myths about loco building.

Dave.

[N15class]

Davey,

 

there are those modellers like you that know this, those that are willing to learn it and the rest (the majority) who will never be persuaded in their lifetime. A look at the various wish list and frothing topics on RMWeb and other forums shows that "collecting" RTR products and all the surrounding hot air that goes with it, is perceived as more enjoyable and constructive than actually building models.

 

Jol

I whole heartedly agree.

[N15class]

I agree with LNWR modeller, although many folks just need pointing in the right direction.

Back in 1961 I got a job in the Midlands. I had just finished my 3P and took into work to show a friend. He said he wished he could do something like that. We decided to have a go, so started a teaching session. I was in lodgings and was pretty free to do as I wanted..so off I went to his house every Wednesday evening for some loco building. We first decided on a Midland M class 0-6-0 since I had a drawing and that we would build one each.

First thing was to teach him how to solder. that done we could make a start. The main frames were 1.5 mm nickel silver strip, but shaped more or less as drawn and the axle holes drilled with a Black and Decker and finished off with a reamer.. Months went by and we both finished up with a loco which worked.

I left for anothewr job shortly afterwards, leaving him in the process of building a LNWR G2 0-8-0.

Exactly the same thing happened when I arrived at my new job in Scarborough. A friend who thought he couldn't build a loco being given a nudge in the right direction. We built a NER class P (LNER J27) each at sessions at my house in Seamer Very soon he had a B1, B16, G5 etc. Much later he turned to '0' gauge and carried on kit and scratch building.

The common denominator in both these examples was encouragement and instilling confidence. I would think that many modellers do have the skills, just need a bit of help.to get started.

 

Derek

Yes people do need to get encouraged to do kit and scratch building. I like to help anyone I can, I am not the best teacher in the world. I know this from training carpenters, it is so hard to stand back and watch when you know you caan do it. I know I came from a generation where if you wanted someting you generally had to help yourself to get it. That aside, I have also found a lot of negativity from some of the younger generation. With the attitude of why bother if someone else might do it for me. I know there are those out there who will have a go at anything. But there are the others never willing to try.