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Here are the repaint dates for BR blue full yellow ends with BR arrow under nameplate and D prefix removed.

 

D816 26/2/69

D831 4/3/69

D824 23/4/69

D814 23/5/69

D828 12/7/69

D829 10/69 also D870 is shown the same date

D813 28/11/69

 

There are a few that even got reprints some by Laira as late as 1971.

 

Hope this helps

 

Cheers Gareth

Edited by TEDDYBEAR D9521

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So there were 4 variations of blue on warships....

 

D864 - as detailed above

 

Then numerous with numbers and arrows under cab windows at both ends - which D864 subsequently acquired and ran with until scrapped

 

Then D846/7 with arrows over nameplate - D847 went for scrap in this variant

 

Finally Arrows under nameplate - is that the variant you are querying?

 

IIRC 42s only carried versions 2 and 4 of BFYE. And there were also variations of which number font was used certainly within version 2.

 

Cheers

 

Phil

 

 

 

Regarding D846 and D847, there was a subtle difference between the two as D847's numbers were applied closer to the cab doors for some reason.

 

D846 was subsequently repainted into the 'standard' BFYE style, but only ran for a short while like this before being withdrawn, photos of it in this guise are quite rare.

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Absolutely Nige...didn't D846 catch fire, precipitating the repaint? Seems it really wasn't until the final arrows under nameplate Bfye that Swindon finally standardised... Up to that point no such thing as standard livery application!

 

Cheers

 

Phil

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Absolutely Nige...didn't D846 catch fire, precipitating the repaint? Seems it really wasn't until the final arrows under nameplate Bfye that Swindon finally standardised... Up to that point no such thing as standard livery application!

 

Cheers

 

Phil

Good job they didn't get into NSE. When i covered the DC Lines there were more livery variations on the 313s than sets. Some were different within the sets.

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Something I started some time ago... to be completed when I get the time... but hopefully some use to some of you..

 

DRAWINGS ISSUED FOR LIVERY ALTERATIONS

 

SL/SW/1342           Painting, Lining & letter spacing diagram

 

A     25/06/58          Nameplate numbers & route discs reposioned, applied line reduced from 6¼" to 3".

 

B     02/09/58          Serifs added to letter 'D'.

 

C     13/11/58    Nameplate lowered from 6 7/8 " below louvres to 8 7/8 ". Draw hook protector plate altered from Red to Black.

                         Length of red buffer beam stopped 1" from buffer flanges.

 

D     06/04/67          Livery of body altered from Green to Rail Blue. Yellow warning colour added B.S. o.ooo0 added. BR

       small crest altered to symbol. 2'-6" white and prefix and numerals to loco. number, using Rail Alphabet.

 

E     18/12/68          BR symbol and loco number repositioned - loco data panel added. R A discs removed. Corres. REF. DS.03327

 

F      28/01/69          BR Symbol loco number and data panel repositioned - MOB ref MB 414/95.

 

 

 

 

 

OHLW

 

DE locomotives started having Overhead Live Wire Warning notices fitted from April 1961, the earliest Warship fitted was D805 (28/07/61). D870 only D800 class known new with OHLW notices.

 

 

GSYE

 

D859-D865 from New; D822 first D800 (26/01/62), D834 first D833 (16/01/62)

 

 

MSYE

 

D811 first D800 (05/10/65); D857 first D833 (22/09/65). 863?????

 

 

MFYE

 

D811 first D800 (30/08/67); D834 first D833 (08/02/68).

 

 

BSYE

 

D831 first D800 (30/11/66); D833 NIL.

 

 

BFYE

 

D819 first D800 (By 05/67); D864 first D833 (XX/11/66).

 

 

1968 version (Sans Gill numbers, with D, arrows on cab sides with red dots)

 

D821       11/01/68

 

 

1969 version (Sans Gill numbers no D, arrow under nameplates) from 18/12/68 (see DRAWING ALTS ; E)

 

D831 first D800 (04/03/69); D833 first D833 (By 09/69).

 

ORDER TO MAROON AND VARIATIONS

 

 

22/09/65        D857                   Point                                                   Numbers low (in GSY livery position).

05/10/65        D811                   Flat                                                     No top lamp bracket. May of departed 05/11/65?

04-09/10/65   D863                   Point                                                   Actual departure date not known. Departed between dates shown.

08/10/65        D858                   Point

26/10/65        D862                                                                             May be 26/11/65.

 

11/11/65        D865

 

14/12/65        D829                                                                             Actual departure date not known but date likely.

31/12/65        D812

 

 

07/01/66        D805

XX/01/66       D813

XX/01/66       D869                                                                             Departed between 05/12/65 - 23/01/66.

XX/01/66       D870                                                                             Departed between 05/12/65 - 23/01/66.

 

24/02/66        D839                                                              

 

04/03/66        D809

06/03/66        D828                                                                             By this date.

XX/03/66       D844

 

06/04/66        D802

 

06/05/66        D821

13/05/66        D855

 

10/06/66        D834

XX/06/66       D832                                                                             By 17/06/66

22/06/66        D848

24/06/66        D801

28/06/66        D806

28/06/66        D838                                                                             By this date.

 

23/08/66        D815                  

30/08/66        D823                                                                             May be earlier 06/66.

 

23/09/66        D861

XX/09/66       D817

XX/09/66       D867

 

03/10/66        D842

20/10/66        D840

 

 

ORDER TO BLUE AND VARIATIONS

 

Loco / details in bold indicate no photographic evidence of livery variation.

 

    /11/66       D864     Blue      Full                                                       Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers under engine room windows.

30/11/66       D831     Blue      Panel                                                  Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers under engine room windows.

 

08/01/67       D830     Blue      Panel                                                    Small double arrow above name plate, Serif numbers on cab side.

 

    /01/67       D846     Blue      Full                                                       Small double arrow above name plate, Serif numbers on cab side.

24/02/67       D847     Blue      Full                                                       Small double arrow above name plate, Serif numbers on cab side.

 

28/04/67       D857     Blue      Full                                                       Small double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side.

    /05/67       D819     Blue      Full                                                       Small double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side.

 

    /06/67        D864     Blue      Full       DP low by 6/69                         Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side.

    /06/67        D859     Blue      Full                                                       Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side.

08/06/67        D818     Blue      Full                                                       Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side.

05/07/67        D813     Blue      Full                                                       Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side.

06/07/67        D849     Blue      Full                                                      Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side.     

    /08/67        D820     Blue      Full                                                       Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side.

11/08/67        D827     Blue      Full                                                       Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side.            

25/08/67        D814     Blue      Full                                                       Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side.

26/09/67        D841     Blue      Full                                                       Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side.

27/09/67        D816     Blue      Full                                                       Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side.

10/10/67        D802     Blue      Full                                                       Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side.

    /10/67       D853     Blue      Full                                                       Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side.

06/11/67        D804     Blue      Full                                                       Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side.            

06/11/67        D807     Blue      Full                                                       Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side.

28/11/67        D803     Blue      Full                                                       Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side.

    /12/67        D843     Blue      Full                                                      Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side.     

    /12/67        D863     Blue      Full                                                       Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side.

    /12/67        D868     Blue      Full       DP by arrow (69+)                     Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side.

 

11/01/68        D821     Blue      Full                                                    Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side.

19/01/68        D826     Blue      Full                                                    Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side.

    /02/68        D860     Blue      Full                                                       Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side

27/03/68        D822     Blue      Full                                                    Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side.

28/03/68        D835     Blue      Full                                                    Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side.

09/04/68        D836     Blue      Full                                                    Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side.

07/05/68        D851     Blue      Full       (5/68) then DP low (10/69)      Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side.

14/05/68        D850     Blue      Full                                                    Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side.

21/05/68        D820     Blue      Full       DP fitted later                           Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side.

20/06/68        D849     Blue      Full       DP by arrow later                      Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side.

09/07/68        D837     Blue      Full       DP low / other end                 Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side.

    /07/68        D843     Blue      Full                                                       Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side.

    /07/68        D808     Blue      Full                                                    Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side.

17/09/68        D866     Blue      Full       DP low                                     Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side.

    /10/68        D819     Blue      Full       DP by arrow / x 4                   Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side.

28/10/68        856       Blue      Full       DP low                                     Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side.

27/11/68        825       Blue      Full       & DP                                    Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side.

27/12/68        803       Blue      Full       DP by arrow                              Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side.

 

 

18/12/68        Livery variation ‘1969’ version Drawing Ref. No. SL/SW/1342/E

 

BR symbol and loco number repositioned - loco data panel added. R A discs removed.

 

26/02/69        816       Blue      Full       DP on cab side                         Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

04/03/69        831       Blue      Full       DP on cab side                         Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

23/04/69        824       Blue      Full       DP on cab side                         Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

23/05/69        814       Blue      Full       DP on cab side                         Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

12/07/69        828       Blue      Full       DP on cab side                         Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

12/09/69        857       Blue      Full       DP on cab side                         Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

19/09/69        823       Blue      Full       DP on cab side                         Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

    /09/69        833       Blue      Full       DP on cab side                         Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

    /09/69        865       Blue      Full       DP on cab side                         Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

14/10/69        858       Blue      Full       DP on cab side                         Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

    /10/69        829       Blue      Full       DP on cab side                         Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

    /10/69        870       Blue      Full       DP on cab side                         Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

21/11/69        852       Blue      Full       DP on cab side                         Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

28/11/69        813       Blue      Full       DP on cab side                         Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

    /11/69        844       Blue      Full       DP on cab side                         Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

05/12/69        854       Blue      Full       DP on cab side                         Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

 

 

02/01/70        855       Blue      Full       DP on cab side                         Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

 

20/02/70        845       Blue      Full       DP on cab side                         Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

 

27/04/70        862       Blue      Full       DP on cab side                         Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

 

17/06/70        841       Blue      Full       DP on cab side                         Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

    /06/70        843       Blue      Full       DP on cab side                         Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

    /06/70        846       Blue      Full       DP on cab side                         Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

 

    /07/70        839       Blue      Full       DP on cab side                         Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

 

10/08/70        869       Blue      Full       DP on cab side                         Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

 

25/09/70        867       Blue      Full       DP on cab side                         Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

 

17/10/70        842       Blue      Full       DP on cab side                         Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

 

    /11/70        833       Blue      Full       DP on cab side                         Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

 

 

20/01/71        834       Blue      Full       DP on cab side                         Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

 

08/03/71        861       Blue      Full       DP on cab side                         Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

 

08/04/71        835       Blue      Full       DP on cab side                         Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

23/04/71        827       Blue      Full       DP on cab side                         Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

 

06/06/71        868       Blue      Full       Laira alteration                          Double arrow under name, Serif numbers on cab side.

 

07/07/71        826       Blue      Full       Laira Repaint                            Double arrow under name, Serif numbers on cab side.

 

10/08/71        818       Blue      Full       DP on cab side                         Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

18/08/71        821       Blue      Full       DP on cab side                         Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

 

06/09/71        820       Blue      Full       DP on cab side                         Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

 

 

26/09/72        818       Blue      Full       Red names off E exam.            Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side.

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Smashing Mark - very useful, thank you!

 

Am sure I have seen a photo of D849 with double arrows on cab side and serif numbers - will see if I can track link down

 

And here we go - not the one I was thinking of which is at Plymouth coupled to a maroon Stanier coach but same configuration...

 

http://colourrail.co.uk/api/image/medium/099b7634-4c71-46d4-9001-45dd861ce32c

 

Phil

Edited by Phil Bullock
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Smashing Mark - very useful, thank you!

 

Am sure I have seen a photo of D849 with double arrows on cab side and serif numbers - will see if I can track link down

 

And here we go - not the one I was thinking of which is at Plymouth coupled to a maroon Stanier coach but same configuration...

 

http://colourrail.co.uk/api/image/medium/099b7634-4c71-46d4-9001-45dd861ce32c

 

Phil

 

Hi Phil,

 

Aforementioned picture of D849 Superb with d/arrows and serif numbers is in "Warships in Colour" by John Jennison. The caption states that the picture was taken at Teignmouth-should this be near Torquay...?

 

Neil

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Hi Phil,

 

Aforementioned picture of D849 Superb with d/arrows and serif numbers is in "Warships in Colour" by John Jennison. The caption states that the picture was taken at Teignmouth-should this be near Torquay...?

 

Neil

Leaving D818 Glory aside, was 821 Greyhound repainted by Swindon, Old Oak or Stewarts Lane early in December 1971 as I recall seeing it at the Lane being prepared for a Royal or dignitary special which as I recall didn't happen as there was some sort of union dispute on, does anyone else know anymore? So was 821 one of the very last full depot repaints?

 

Kevin

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Leaving D818 Glory aside, was 821 Greyhound repainted by Swindon, Old Oak or Stewarts Lane early in December 1971 as I recall seeing it at the Lane being prepared for a Royal or dignitary special which as I recall didn't happen as there was some sort of union dispute on, does anyone else know anymore? So was 821 one of the very last full depot repaints?

 

Kevin

 

The state visit of Emperor Hirohito of Japan IIRC. A locomotive with two engines (insurance against failure) was needed and a class with which the Southern was familiar.

 

Geoff Endacott

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The state visit of Emperor Hirohito of Japan IIRC. A locomotive with two engines (insurance against failure) was needed and a class with which the Southern was familiar.

 

Geoff Endacott

Well done Geoff, I seem to recall something about D5518 being substituted by Stratford as part of this chaos at the time too?

 

Kevin

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The Hiro Hito job was Tuesday 5th October 1971. 821 was released from Swindon ex works on 18/08/71. On 4th September the loco was still in a very clean external condition and it remained in traffic until 24th September when LA gave it a B exam lasting 4 days. Its external condition was good enough for Royal train duty and so on the 28th it worked to OC for HQ Inspection special exam and Royal preperations. On the 29th it worked across LD to SL and remained there until it was used on the 5th.

 

On the 3rd OC sent over 827 to SL and both locos were 'bulled' up by SL staff. Neither loco were repainted, just given a real good buff and shine.

 

The use of 800's on the Royal on the SR was actually political move. Normal traction for Royals at that time on the SR was Class 31s worked by Stratford men and the SR drivers were not overly impressed at not being able to do the Royals on their own patch.

 

So 800s were diagrammed to be used to break the Stratford monoply.

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So how many warship liveries on shed at the same time?

 

post-7138-0-50223800-1509654771_thumb.jpg

 

Phil

 

 

 

 

 

 

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You can't have enough Warships. Although I would prefer them all green with just the odd maroon rather than blue with 1 green and a couple of maroon.

Edited by westerner

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Just as an update to the 800's on the Royal...

 

The reason that SF men using 31s were used was because the SR had no allocated steam heat fitting locos after the end of 1968 when the Class 70 locos were withdrawn. Although they were DC electric locos they had steam heat boilers and the Royal train, at that time, was steam heat only.

 

From 1977 the Royal train was upgraded to include MKIII coaches (ex 252001 prototype HST) and the other vehicles were fitted with ETH so 33/73's could be used.

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The Hiro Hito job was Tuesday 5th October 1971. 821 was released from Swindon ex works on 18/08/71. On 4th September the loco was still in a very clean external condition and it remained in traffic until 24th September when LA gave it a B exam lasting 4 days. Its external condition was good enough for Royal train duty and so on the 28th it worked to OC for HQ Inspection special exam and Royal preperations. On the 29th it worked across LD to SL and remained there until it was used on the 5th.

 

On the 3rd OC sent over 827 to SL and both locos were 'bulled' up by SL staff. Neither loco were repainted, just given a real good buff and shine.

 

The use of 800's on the Royal on the SR was actually political move. Normal traction for Royals at that time on the SR was Class 31s worked by Stratford men and the SR drivers were not overly impressed at not being able to do the Royals on their own patch.

 

So 800s were diagrammed to be used to break the Stratford monoply.

All good stuff Mark, but as I recall 821 was stood inside Stewarts Lane on 4 December 1971 having just been repainted, so the dates don't match, therefore it must have been for some other "special" job on this occasion. I am pretty sure of the date as I recall it being on one of the Dalescroft Railfan's tours of London that day. Although it was all home turf for me I still went along s with a coach we got around more places than I would have done using the tube and buses around London.

 

Kevin

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So how many warship liveries on shed at the same time?

 

attachicon.gifIMG_6348.JPG

 

Phil

What no blue half yellow front, ie D830 or D831, or green full yellow ie D808 & D810?

 

tut tut...

 

Kevin

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All good stuff Mark, but as I recall 821 was stood inside Stewarts Lane on 4 December 1971 having just been repainted, so the dates don't match, therefore it must have been for some other "special" job on this occasion. I am pretty sure of the date as I recall it being on one of the Dalescroft Railfan's tours of London that day. Although it was all home turf for me I still went along s with a coach we got around more places than I would have done using the tube and buses around London.

 

Kevin

Saturday 4th December 1971..

 

On this date 821 was at Yeovil Junction all day (07.45 - 22.00) acting as a stand-by loco in case something failed on the route between Exmouth Junction & Salisbury.

 

Both 818 & 827 were on Royal duties on the SR, 818 was used, 827 was the stand-by and the Royal job was on the 7th conveying the King of Afganistan from Gatwick to Victoria.

 

After the event, on the 8th, 818 became derailed in SL and required the A end front valances re-bashed into a reasonable shape. 827 was sent LD SL to EH to work the 00.05 to STJ.

 

818 however had to go to NA for a proper repair and it made its way to OC via Clapham Yard arriving at OC in the early hours of the 10th.

 

On the 11th 818 worked the 01.15 freight from Acton to Exeter and then went LD to NA for a 'proper job' repair returning to traffic on the 13th.

 

Nether 818 or 827 had been repainted, again both were bulled up by SL staff

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What no blue half yellow front, ie D830 or D831, or green full yellow ie D808 & D810?

 

tut tut...

 

Kevin

Well spotted Kevin! But there's a reason....can you guess what it is?

 

Hee Hee

 

Phil

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