2mm Andy Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 John, Here you are; (attachment removed) Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethashenden Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 This probably sounds daft but are there any instructions for the mineral wagon as I've got four to do and not quite sure where all of the bits go The body is plastic and should be self explanatory. The underframe instructions are here: http://www.2mm.org.uk/products/instruction_sheets/pdf2-353a.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John lewsey Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Hi me again can you tell me what the pieces are that fold up under the under frame do they hold the couplings .Actually has anyone got a photo of the underneath of a finished one I'm doing the riveted version although I'll be getting some of the welded ones as well I need 25 in all John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2mm Andy Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Hi me again can you tell me what the pieces are that fold up under the under frame do they hold the couplings .Actually has anyone got a photo of the underneath of a finished one I'm doing the riveted version although I'll be getting some of the welded ones as well I need 25 in all John Those sound like the coupling mounts. There are some photos of a similar chassis here; http://www.2mm.org.uk/articles/bananavan/index.htm If you need a lot of the 1/108 welded body wagons then I would recommend the Stephen Harris etched kits. Details are here (towards the bottom of the page); http://www.2mm.org.uk/small_suppliers/stephenharris/index.htm There was a step-by-step guide to building these kits here; http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/46368-2fs-etched-16t-mineral-group-build/ Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted October 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2014 Whilst there is non doubt that the Stephen Harris 16Tonners are much superior in appearance to the Farish ones it needs to be remembered they are also considerably heavier. Not an issue with short rakes of wagons but may be worth bearing in mind if you are thinking of long trains. Jerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Nig H Posted October 14, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 14, 2014 Whilst there is non doubt that the Stephen Harris 16Tonners are much superior in appearance to the Farish ones it needs to be remembered they are also considerably heavier. Not an issue with short rakes of wagons but may be worth bearing in mind if you are thinking of long trains. Jerry Hello Jerry, Do you know how much the SH ones weigh? Regards, Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted October 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2014 Hello Jerry, Do you know how much the SH ones weigh? Regards, Nigel Morning Nigel, I don't as I've not built any but I have built several of the Chris Higgs Midland wagons (box, cattle, coke etc) which make up into little jewels but are much heavier than a plastic bodied wagon. The same applies to coaches from etched kits. Jerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted October 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2014 That shouldn't be a problem on Tucking Mill but I presume it could be an issue on Bath. Still the S&D was not adverse to double heading :jester: Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2mm Andy Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Whilst there is non doubt that the Stephen Harris 16Tonners are much superior in appearance to the Farish ones it needs to be remembered they are also considerably heavier. Not an issue with short rakes of wagons but may be worth bearing in mind if you are thinking of long trains. Jerry Have you mentioned this to Bob Jones? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOBjWcvYPRc Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted October 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2014 Have you mentioned this to Bob Jones? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOBjWcvYPRc Andy Yes, Bob and I have chatted about this issue at length. The majority of wagons seen in the video are much lighter plastic bodied ones and you will notice the lengthy coal train is hauled by a diesel. On the 9F kit Bob abandoned the original resin boiler for a cast pewter one due to haulage issues. He has also been experimenting with Bullfrog Snot (hope I got that name correct!) as a sort of traction tyre. The Q6 has a brass boiler which can be filled with lead so haulage will hopefully be adequate. I've nearly finished the one I'm building for him and then have a Q5 and another Q6 to do followed by a couple of 9Fs. I shall give the 9Fs a go up Bath bank to see if they can take twelve coaches on their own as they did on the prototype. My climb out of Bath is about 1in70 which is a bit easier than the prototypes 1in50! Jerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2mm Andy Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Sorry Jerry, but the majority of those wagons are the Stephen Harris kits (some of the rivetted examples are the plastic-bodied kits). Chris Mills has built what seems like hundreds of the things (and a similar number of the 21t hoppers), all of which are eventually destined for his own layout project of Scotswood. In the meantime they are usually to be seen running on Fence Houses (the giveaway is that they are fitted with Electra couplings). Whilst I will admit that I haven't weighed them, I have built examples of both the SH kits and the plastic ones - the difference in weight isn't as big as you'd think (certainly less that some other etched wagons). Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted October 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2014 Sorry Jerry, but the majority of those wagons are the Stephen Harris kits (some of the rivetted examples are the plastic-bodied kits). Chris Mills has built what seems like hundreds of the things (and a similar number of the 21t hoppers), all of which are eventually destined for his own layout project of Scotswood. In the meantime they are usually to be seen running on Fence Houses (the giveaway is that they are fitted with Electra couplings). Whilst I will admit that I haven't weighed them, I have built examples of both the SH kits and the plastic ones - the difference in weight isn't as big as you'd think (certainly less that some other etched wagons). Andy I stand corrected Andy. As I said I've not built any of the 16T minerals (although I have built numerous other Stephen H kits and I'm a big fan) and was basing my assumptions on the other etched kits I have built which are predominantly the Chris Higgs ones which are quite heavy. Thinking about it, it makes sense as the Higgs kits can be up to five layers for the outside framed jobs. I stand by my comments on coaches where I tend to use the etched internal bits as templates for plasticard replacements. Jerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium DavidLong Posted October 14, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 14, 2014 I stand corrected Andy. As I said I've not built any of the 16T minerals (although I have built numerous other Stephen H kits and I'm a big fan) and was basing my assumptions on the other etched kits I have built which are predominantly the Chris Higgs ones which are quite heavy. Thinking about it, it makes sense as the Higgs kits can be up to five layers for the outside framed jobs. I stand by my comments on coaches where I tend to use the etched internal bits as templates for plasticard replacements. Jerry I've just weighed some of my wagons: Harris 8-shoe fitted mineral (with two brass vac cylinders) 7.9g Harris unfitted mineral 6.8g Plastic 8-shoe fitted mineral (two vac cylinders but no other weight) 6.9g Plastic unfitted but weighted mineral 6.5g Some of my plastic vans seem to be a bit on the portly side as they are around 10-11g - down to me not having my little electronic scales when I added the lead! Stephen's own locos wouldn't have any trouble with large numbers of these wagons. His scratch-built 37s would break your toes if you dropped one on your foot. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethashenden Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Hi can some one tell me how many buffers come in a pack and how many wheels come in a pack and do the wheel bearings come in packs of fifty the reason I ask is that I got four minerals from the AGM and didn't get any wheel bearings or buffers .Also I'm getting the welded body am I right in thinking that you get two bodies ing each pack (it seems a shame that you can't just order a complete kit ) Regards John All the quantities are listed on the Shop 2 page. Wheels are 2 wheels on an axle, bearings are approximately 50, buffers are either 4 or 8 depending on the type. As for kits, that would no doubt add to the price as someone would have to put all the bits together. There's a feature on the website that tells you all the bits you need for a particular kit and lets you enter the quantities there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted October 18, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 18, 2014 The newer Lost wax brass buffers come on a brass sprue and I believe you expect to get at least 8 good ones may may get one or two more. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2mm Andy Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 it seems a shame that you can't just order a complete kit Regards John Simple answer is that there are a lot of variations on the basic 16t mineral wagon, so you'd have to do quite a few different kits. There is a table in the Yearbook that does give some guidance on what components are needed. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkAustin Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 All the quantities are listed on the Shop 2 page. Wheels are 2 wheels on an axle, bearings are approximately 50, buffers are either 4 or 8 depending on the type. As for kits, that would no doubt add to the price as someone would have to put all the bits together. There's a feature on the website that tells you all the bits you need for a particular kit and lets you enter the quantities there. Watch the website "what bits do you need feature" as a few years ago there was a big shop renumbering scheme, and some of these screens do not take account of this. Use it---it's better than nothing by a long way, but you need to check you've got the right bits. Mark A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D869 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Also note that the welded twin packs contain two different versions - one with the top flap door and one without (or they did last time I bought some anyway). You have 3 options for the one without the door... 1. Get your scalpel out and add the door. There is an etch for this in the shop but it's an easy enough job with bits of plastikard. I prefer to do the job with plastikard myself 2. model one of the early versions which lacked the top flap. You may well need a different chassis for this variant - my one has DSI brakes and the white 'V' on the side denoting bottom doors. 3. model one of the rebodied ones that appeared from the early 70s onwards. The usual advice is that the bodies were mounted the opposite way around with respect to the Morton brakes. I haven't done one like this myself because they are a bit late for my chosen period. It's also well worth thinning the rear of the sides and adding the triangular corner strengtheners. I also add some bits of plastikard under the bottoms of the vertical ribs to represent the way that the body is fixed to the chassis. FWIW, I've so far finished 9 of these kits. I find them a nice self-contained job for example if I'm away with a fairly minimal set of tools. Regards, Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 With regard to the orientation of the underframe/ body on the rebuilds; it was random, and depended which way round the wagon faced upon arrival at the works. In contrast, the new-built wagons would have had all the chassis fabricated in one shop, with the brake-gear arranged in the same way, then they would be moved into the next shop, where bodies would likewise be aligned in one direction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John lewsey Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Also note that the welded twin packs contain two different versions - one with the top flap door and one without (or they did last time I bought some anyway). You have 3 options for the one without the door... 1. Get your scalpel out and add the door. There is an etch for this in the shop but it's an easy enough job with bits of plastikard. I prefer to do the job with plastikard myself 2. model one of the early versions which lacked the top flap. You may well need a different chassis for this variant - my one has DSI brakes and the white 'V' on the side denoting bottom doors. 3. model one of the rebodied ones that appeared from the early 70s onwards. The usual advice is that the bodies were mounted the opposite way around with respect to the Morton brakes. I haven't done one like this myself because they are a bit late for my chosen period. Hi have you ant photos John It's also well worth thinning the rear of the sides and adding the triangular corner strengtheners. I also add some bits of plastikard under the bottoms of the vertical ribs to represent the way that the body is fixed to the chassis. FWIW, I've so far finished 9 of these kits. I find them a nice self-contained job for example if I'm away with a fairly minimal set of tools. Regards, Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John lewsey Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Hi Andy some how I've managed to reply in the middle of your post Anyway have you got any photos of your minerals to show the extra bits that you put in Regards John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D869 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Anyway have you got any photos of your minerals to show the extra bits that you put in Err... no, but I do have a camera ... So hopefully you can see... the brackets under the vertical ribs, thinned sides and corner strengtheners the bottom doored variant sans top flaps one that I just turned over in case there is anything else that you might want to see... ... which reminds me... some of these have actual brakes in the form of some thin wire arranged to bear on the axle. They can be very free running so shunting can be a challenge if there is even the slightest gradient. Thanks to Jerry Clifford for that tip. The bottom right one uses cast whitemetal axleguards and the moulded plastic solebars that come with the kit. The others use the chassis etch to the fullest extent - i.e. including the rather tricky layered axleboxes - a bit of a throwback to the 'old way' when these were introduced with the much more minimalist Mike Bryant chassis etch. It seems that I used nickel silver strip for the body brackets on the top right wagon. I must have been feeling particularly masochistic on that day. Sadly the disadvantage of this extra effort is that the paint rubs off more easily. Regards, Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Hi can someone educate me do some of theses wagons only have bottom doors do some have one of each or do some top and bottom doors also which combination have single sided brakes if some one could show pictures of both side of each wagon that would be very useful Many thanks John By 'bottom doors' do you mean doors in the floor; if so, these were only the very early builds, which had 'Independent' brakes with no cross-shaft. The 'default' 1/108 mineral, which was produced in many times greater numbers than all the others together, had Morton brakes and a cross-shaft. Have a look at these pages from Paul Bartlett's site:- http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brmowtmineral http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brmineralweld http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brmineral108internal http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/mineralmortonmxv That should keep you going for a while... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D869 Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Yes, you should have top flaps on both sides... or on neither side. It's hard to provide a concise guide to 16 tonner variations because they were built in such huge numbers over a long period of time... and then modified in service. There was a nice series of articles in Modeller's Backtrack Vol 1 issues 3, 4 and 5 if you can track those down. Otherwise there are the various books by David Larkin plus several other reference works that are now out of print. The bottom doors require DSI brakes because the more common Morton brake has a cross-shaft under the wagon which would interfere with the bottom doors. If you're after a 'typical' mix then you should probably have mostly diagram 1/108 welded body 16 tonners with 2 shoe Morton brakes (i.e. brake shoes and push rods on one side only) with top flaps and no bottom doors. Mostly, but not exclusively that is - for your chosen date there is still plenty of scope for variety like rivetted bodies, bottom doors, slope sided and so on. Regards, Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Higgs Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Hi I mean that the kit comes with two different sides and I have absolutely no idea which bits go with what there seems to be a top flap and a door do the doors with top flaps go together and the ones without go together or are they mixed And which ones have brakes both sides and which don't .As you can see I know nothing about theses wagons John As has been said, yout should have top flaps on both sides or none. What you are supposed to do with the plastic body is buy a pair, from which you can build one wagon with top flaps and one without. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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