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UP! Mini 3D Printer


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Sadly the 0.010" resolution (0.25mm) will not be acceptable to many intending users thinking of complete bodyshells, although it might have possibilities if making a 'flat pack' items, say a small coach, where the ragged edging might not be so noticeable. The other downside is that it uses abs, so we're possibly back to the 'already Snowcemmed' finish which is almost impossible to deal with to get a decent surface finish.

 

But as a 'club' item on which to produce first test pieces before going to one of the high resolution companies for the final job it may well have attractions.

 

Just a couple of thoughts from someone who has explored and tried the available options without being able to go to the really high-end companies who can produce incredible surface finish suitable as mould-ready masters, but at a cost that can be thought of as unviable.

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Seen one at work.

To be honest not that impressed, for all the reasons listed above.

It is a good intro, and probably ideal for motivating the early stages of development of basic 3D CAD skills when you see a physical output. You very quickly move on.

Andy

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  • RMweb Gold

What if your only product range was 4mm or 2mm wagons, or parts of wagons, or building elements such as doors or chimney stacks ?

Is the quality good enough ? Does the final surface need filling or smoothing ?

 

Stu

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Sadly, the Form1 only has 0.3mm horizontal resolution.

 

The B9 Creator (http://b9creator.com) is less sexily marketed than the FormLabs product but promises 0.05mm horizontal resolution and is available possibly sooner than the Form1.

 

Having said that, the B9 Creator uses a normal projector whilst the Form1 uses a laser. I'd have thought that the laser solution has more potential for refining to finer resolutions in the long run?

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Having said that, the B9 Creator uses a normal projector whilst the Form1 uses a laser. I'd have thought that the laser solution has more potential for refining to finer resolutions in the long run?

When coming down to nano-size, yes I'd say that the laser has more potential. However, the Envisiontec range also uses DLP and the output from those is perfecly good for model making with minimal post processing required.

 

I think the form 1 may have a speed advantage over the B9 for larger parts, but I don't think it would be significant.

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Seen one at work.

To be honest not that impressed, for all the reasons listed above.

It is a good intro, and probably ideal for motivating the early stages of development of basic 3D CAD skills when you see a physical output. You very quickly move on.

Andy

I'd agree, it's probably best suited to schools, as a first introduction to 3D CAD and 3D Printing. There are other machines out there, such as the Ultimaker, which have a bigger build area and better resolution.

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Yes, I'm a little puzzled by the Formlab offering and even more puzzled by why it's been so popular. It seems unlikely that people who follow these niche (for now) 3d printers wouldn't have heard of the B9Creator. In which case why would they pay significantly more for a machine with worse resolution, worse minimum feature size, more complex components (lasers and moving mirrors vs. off the shelf projector), slower build and much more expensive resin? The main benefits of the laser approach is that it can achieve better focus (and hence resolution) over a larger build area - neither of which the Formlab machine actually does with it's big (for a laser) spot and tiny build area.

 

They've clearly been working on it for a long time. Perhaps they didn't anticipate anyone coming out with a projector based system just a few months earlier. Or perhaps they just think that there's space for both systems out there. The level of Kickstarter funding for both projects would suggest that that's true at the moment.

 

(no affiliation to either project, but considering buying a B9Creator)

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Is the quality good enough ? Does the final surface need filling or smoothing ?

 

My personal opinion: Not nearly, and yes (but why bother with this type of machine) respectively.

 

Having said that, the B9 Creator uses a normal projector whilst the Form1 uses a laser. I'd have thought that the laser solution has more potential for refining to finer resolutions in the long run?

 

I hope so. I might buy one if it did. If you could easily focus the laser to improve the resolution like you can (and if I understand correctly are required to do) for the B9 then that would be good. At the moment I'm not sure where I would put either.

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  • RMweb Gold

The reason for the question was exactly for those answers - so now, no, I wouldn't use one :)

 

Thanks

 

(This goes back to a question I raised in the 2012 Innovation Challenge sub-forum, about making various windows in 2mm, 4mm or 7mm using a 3D printer, fronted by a variable set of parameters to determine height, width & scale. If the quality isn't good enough, then there would be no point in persuing this concept.)

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Yes, I'm a little puzzled by the Formlab offering and even more puzzled by why it's been so popular. It seems unlikely that people who follow these niche (for now) 3d printers wouldn't have heard of the B9Creator. In which case why would they pay significantly more for a machine with worse resolution, worse minimum feature size, more complex components (lasers and moving mirrors vs. off the shelf projector), slower build and much more expensive resin? The main benefits of the laser approach is that it can achieve better focus (and hence resolution) over a larger build area - neither of which the Formlab machine actually does with it's big (for a laser) spot and tiny build area.

I guess it depends on what you want to do with the machine, the minimum feature size quoted for the Form1 isn't perfect for model parts in the smaller scales, but should be quite sufficient for jewellery pattern making. There seems to be a lot of interest from jewellers in the Form 1 from the comments on the Kickstarter page.

 

I think part of the popularity stems from the fact that the Form 1 is ready to go when it arrives - you don't need to assemble it and set it up beforehand, like you do with the B9. The Form software also looks to be very good and to be on a par with that shipped with Envisiontec machines, which start at £10,000 with a much smaller build area. Also, in terms of build area, the closest that I can find in a machine the same as the Form 1 is the Digital Wax 029J, which works in the same way. Whilst this may be faster than the Form 1 (I don't know what the laser speed, or minimum feature size, for that is), it only has a build area of 110x110x100mm, and will set you back in the region of €89,000! More info here, if you're interested:

http://www.dwssystems.com/cms/page.php?29

 

I guess, in summary, that the excitement around the Form 1 is that it is a professional quality machine at a fraction of the price of the other machines currently on the market. It's also possible that later upgrades/alterations will allow smaller minimum feature sizes.

 

In terms of how small lasers can go - take a look at this machine:

http://www.d-mec.co.jp/eng/products/acculas/index.html

 

I expect it's quite expensive though!

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I think part of the popularity stems from the fact that the Form 1 is ready to go when it arrives - you don't need to assemble it and set it up beforehand, like you do with the B9.

 

Yes, I think you may have hit on the key point. I don't for a moment doubt that the Form1 will be a very powerful machine, as you say, especially for jewellers. It's part of a big step forward in the DIY area from extrusion machines. It just seemed to me that on the published technical specs alone the Form1 doesn't have much going for it over the B9 as far as I can see. Lots over an FDM makerbot/reprap/any of the dozen or so clone extrusion printers though.

 

Anyone buying either the Form1 or the B9 is an early adoper and probably an enthusiast. My, probably faulty, assumption is that means that they are willing to assemble and tinker to get it working as you need to with the B9.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi im interested to know why 3D printing seems to take preferance over other processes such as SLS. (selective laser sintering).

My experience with printing has lead me to think that its ok for a quick look at a concept but is let down by the fragility of the layers.

SLS although still needing surface finish prior to paint gives a more representative result, and can also be made using stainless steel powder.

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Seems like Formlabs and Kickstarter are being sued for patent infringement for the Form1: http://www.bbc.co.uk...nology-20434031

 

What a pity!

At the moment it looks like either delaying tactics, or a way of getting a closer look at the workings of the Form 1 through the discovery process.

 

Having read the patent concerned, and the alleged infringements, my personal opinion is that the Form 1 does not infringe it, although I concede that I don't have detailed knowledge of how the Form 1 actually works. As long as it cures complete layers at a time, it should be OK.

 

It's going to be interesting.

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At the moment it looks like either delaying tactics, or a way of getting a closer look at the workings of the Form 1 through the discovery process.

 

Having read the patent concerned, and the alleged infringements, my personal opinion is that the Form 1 does not infringe it, although I concede that I don't have detailed knowledge of how the Form 1 actually works. As long as it cures complete layers at a time, it should be OK.

 

It's going to be interesting.

 

I read a comment on a blog about this today where the correspondent also thought that Formlabs would be in the clear. The 'problem' isn't a new one.

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