jukebox Posted February 22, 2020 Author Share Posted February 22, 2020 I wasn't going to do an update this weekend, but had a change of heart... Plastering is going well, if slowly because of the heat. I added a skin of 5-10mm plaster to the top of the hill, and only got a little cracking: The plaster-and-PVA soaked cloth that forms the contours is quite flexible, so the idea behind the skin is to create a rigid shell. I have only done the top of the hill, so that once it hardens, I can lean on it and do the cutting: I also started terraforming the green. It was about then that I realised this is one of those "now I need to go a step further than planned to keep the scenery continuous" moments... This corner leads to Stockrington Station, on the right. That baseboard is not full width - the plywood I had left over from the house extensions only came out 900mm - that made leaning in easier when I was building the backscenes. But at the corner where the meets that short face, I now need to install the remainder of the board, so the hillside can wrap around the corner: This part of the layout looks like one of those how-do-you-build-scenery demonstrations at an exhibition - it runs from plywood, thru paper then plaster bandage to plaster shell... I'm happy how the green is coming along, but have some doubt about the lie of the slope coming down to it. There's a bit of a "gutter" in the contours (shown by the yellow lines) which would be fine if the golf hole followed it, but the fairway (in red) cuts across it at 30 degrees: I'm thinking (which if you have been playing along at home, know really means, "he's going to...") I will infill some of that gutter to make the fairway flatter. Same process as the green augmentation - crunched up newspaper, PVA- dipped paper, followed by PVA-dipped shirt, then re-skin with plaster. On the bright side, the modified contours from the green still look natural from the track side of the fence view, and will come to life with the scrub and bushes. Cheers Scott 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 I wouldn't worry too much as fairways often just follow the contours of the land. A very quick search brought this up. OK, it's the reverse of yours Scott, with an elevated green, but fairways can be quite undulating. You'd be amazed just how hilly Augusta is where the Masters is played. As long as the ground is smooth enough to run gang movers over it, rise and fall on a fairway is absolutely normal. 3 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
92220 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 Hi Scott, To follow up on Gordon’s point, it would be appropriate for a course in the UK not to use the contours to best effect. Without going into a long spiel about course architecture, the way that you have laid out the hole, or at least the part that is visible, is not best use of the topography (as you were questioning), but absolutely does represent typical use on many UK courses. The only Qs that I might have are: 1. Care about getting the green not too close to the edge. Even pre H&S days as you are depicting, I don’t think a golf club would get away with a hole where the ball was being hit towards the line too obviously. 2. The scenics - making a green and even to some extent the fairway look tightly mown enough to be convincing. I’ve never seen it done before - same for a cricket pitch or a bowling green which are more often seen modelled. However, the potential for interesting changes in levels of grass and other cover is great. Hope that helps, Iain 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted February 22, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 22, 2020 1 hour ago, 92220 said: Hi Scott, To follow up on Gordon’s point, it would be appropriate for a course in the UK not to use the contours to best effect. Without going into a long spiel about course architecture, the way that you have laid out the hole, or at least the part that is visible, is not best use of the topography (as you were questioning), but absolutely does represent typical use on many UK courses. The only Qs that I might have are: 1. Care about getting the green not too close to the edge. Even pre H&S days as you are depicting, I don’t think a golf club would get away with a hole where the ball was being hit towards the line too obviously. 2. The scenics - making a green and even to some extent the fairway look tightly mown enough to be convincing. I’ve never seen it done before - same for a cricket pitch or a bowling green which are more often seen modelled. However, the potential for interesting changes in levels of grass and other cover is great. Hope that helps, Iain We do have Open Championship courses with railway lines just the other side of the out of bounds fence though, don't we? And don't make the green slope too much Scott, I don't want to keep three putting it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted February 22, 2020 Author Share Posted February 22, 2020 Thanks for the feedback, gents! Regarding the "gutter" - it may well be cone of those cases where even though it's not un-prototypical, it looks wrong; I'll see how it comes along was I skin it with another layer of plaster. Gordon - that's a great photo; the cross-fall of the fairway certainly does suggest mine would not be out of place. Iain - I have some ideas for reproducing the green - how they pan out is another matter. I will do some test sections and see how they translate. I figure getting the green right is more important than the fairway, though that needs to look the part, too. The bushes-behind-the-pin is something a few have flagged; I don't want to totally block that vista looking across to the church, so will have some shubbery, but nothing too high. Cheers Scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted February 22, 2020 Author Share Posted February 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, great northern said: We do have Open Championship courses with railway lines just the other side of the out of bounds fence though, don't we? And don't make the green slope too much Scott, I don't want to keep three putting it. Yes, Troon has the Railway Hole... but that's parallel to the fairway, rather than behind the pin, which would be a little higher risk. The green will be flat, Gilbert, I promise. It's the sand traps you'll need to avoid in your lay up shot approaching the green... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) I wonder what the Stimpmeter reading will be.... You wouldn't want the green to slope from front to back coming down the hill as there would be little chance of stopping. If anything a gentle slope of the green from the back (railway side) to the front would be preferable. Edited February 22, 2020 by gordon s 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcredfer Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) A circle of the felt out of which they make ladies hats, would have the smoother look of a Green, just a question of colour choice. PS, Should some old dear be trotting along to the Old Bill next winter, with a complaint that the top of her hat has gone missing, - we shall all know where to go looking. Julian Edited February 22, 2020 by jcredfer 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted February 29, 2020 Author Share Posted February 29, 2020 (edited) ...and so to the part where our hero grits his teeth and takes a step back. Spent this morning adding modifiers to the contours; because these are on top of existing plaster, and don't need the strength, I went the shortcut of just dipping the cloth in 1:1 dilute PVA. As you can see, I've lifted quite a bit of the hill... This area got quite a high levelling - up to 50mm in a few places; wet newspaper rolled up created the thickness - then placing PVA soaked material strips over the top to marry into existing, and ease the contours that were there. I didn't completely fill the gutter, but eased it out at the lower part of the slope (the blue material). The black material is the extension of the slope onto the new baseboard. Still hard to capture, but you can sort of see how I've eased out the contours here... (that last strip on the right is not folded under - it has a curved seam from a shirt sleeve - but it sure does my OCD in looking at it in this photo!). This shot from behind the green looking back up the hill probably shows the contour improvements best. In this last shot you can see the slope now extends across onto the short side of the baseboard. With the new plywood sheet in place, the scale of the space here is a lot clearer for me. Eventually it will form the Platform, Ticket Office, and Stockrington Station forecourt and car park. Those cloth strips need a few days to dry and build up strength, then I can re-skin the lot with another 5-10mm layer of plaster. Cheers Scott Edited February 29, 2020 by jukebox 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two_sugars Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 Why ya Bugga . . . . you'll be capping those hills with snow I suppose. . . John 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted February 29, 2020 Author Share Posted February 29, 2020 3 hours ago, Two_sugars said: Why ya Bugga . . . . you'll be capping those hills with snow I suppose. . . John You should be grateful Gordon plays golf instead of skiing... 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted March 8, 2020 Author Share Posted March 8, 2020 Having re-skinned the new contours last weekend, I went back upstairs to continue my work today, to be met with an unpleasant sight. Cracking. Not the polite (and manageable) cracks like that last round of photos, but tectonic openings, the worse of which had contra-contour curled edges that look like gaping wounds: There's lots of reasons this might have happened; I made up a very large batch of plaster to do the re-skin. It may have had too high a water content; it may have had a lower ratio of PVA that I add to plasticise the mix; It could be that using PVA soaked cloth makes it wick more than plaster soaked cloth; it could be the ambient room temp at this time of year. There is nothing I can do but patch and cover, so that became today's task, using the normal sized batch, and mixed a little on the drier side. The cutting before and after: The fairway and the return to the station car park (after only); It's certainly not the end of the world - far from it - just caught me by surprise; I suspect even the repair layer I just put down might crack, too. It will be an iterative process to finish it off, but is manageable. Let's wait and see. Cheers Scott 3 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manna Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 G'day Folks In Oz you can get a pre mixed plaster, called 'Total Joint Finish', it's very good, and easy to rub down. I use it all the time. manna 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted March 8, 2020 Author Share Posted March 8, 2020 Coda: I went back up after 4 hrs, cut up and wet some cloth, and layed that over the fresh plaster - sort of like putting wet hessian over fresh concrete, to keep the moisture in. Hopefully that will help slow the evaporation. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted March 9, 2020 Author Share Posted March 9, 2020 34C here today, and still lingering heat when I slipped upstairs at 8:30pm... at least 28C inside, probably more. But the sight that greeted me was a lot more encouraging than Friday evening. It does appear my strategy to mitigate the cracking is working: The darker areas are the fresher plaster that went down Sunday afternoon. Looking down the fairway, all is good in the world. Looking up from the green it's all well behaved; I'll use some sandpaper to remove the worst of any of those spatula marks... And lastly, the cutting: Just a small crack there. I only skinned the first 300mm or so of the cutting - I want the top of the hill to be cured, and I'll lean across it and down into the cutting when it can support my weight - the area I highlighted in orange, above. Cheers Scott 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted March 15, 2020 Author Share Posted March 15, 2020 Sunday evening down under, and a good afternoon of progress here. First up - although it was actually the last thing done today - the lads are hard at work levelling the green on the Railway Hole. I found some figures in a container under the layout, and they are useful to give a sense of scale: That's a pad of plaster, which I am hoping won't crack too much. The next shot shows the contours better: Gonna be hell to pay if you overplay that one. Up the top of the hill, more figures give a sense of the distance to the pin: Meanwhile, trackside I used 5 batches of plaster this afternoon to progressively "skin" the cutting: The view from the junction - you can see there's a bit of cracking starting at the join to the previous skin. Hopefully it won't open up excessively: And the view back down the cutting, the plaster still glistening wet... After I look these shots, I put the damp cloth over back the top: That will be the plastering here done once I patch any cracks. Hopefully they aren't too severe, and I can knock them over with a midweek evening's attention. Then it's time to change trades... to grass, flock, and ground cover. Cheers Scott 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted March 20, 2020 Author Share Posted March 20, 2020 Because I am Down Under... Of course the areas of plaster I didn't expect to crack, did: Whilst the green, up to 15mm thick solid plaster that might have shrunk and cracked, didn't: Curiously, there was an area of the cutting in those batches I did last week that didn't crack anywhere near as much... Never mind. The work for my weekend ahead is now clear; a second skinning awaits. The good news is that top surface is well hardened, has no cracks, and is very lean-able. Also I stocked up on some static grasses and flocks... more on that anon. Onward! Cheers Scott 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 I was going to suggest adding a plasticiser to the plaster, but have now read various plaster forums, that may not be the answer. Would Mod Roc plaster bandage be better as at least the weave of the bandage would possibly hold the shape without cracking. I did read about about adding fibres to the plaster, which I assume would be a similar solution. Irrespective of the cracks, the cutting really looks the business.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted March 20, 2020 Author Share Posted March 20, 2020 (edited) Thanks Gordon - yes, the scale of the cutting it is going to make it very photogentic - and there are a few angles to photograph from that will open up nicely once I scenic the bare hillside and top. Regarding the plaster, I was very careful with my batching this time - small batches, lots of PVA, and a fair bit of paint, before adding water mixing, then adding plaster - and making the batch not too sloppy, knowing that more water = more evaporation. Maybe I should have made the mixes wetter? But it doesn't really matter why it did it now - it's happened. And I know that skinning it with a second lean layer should go okay from my repair work at the top. It's a touch frustrating, but it's not slowing me down. I have to do some test work with flocks off-layout to see about reproducing a golf green surface, so there's some playtime involved there while the plaster dries... Rob - I do already add PVA; it goes in when I tint it with paint, before I add water. Probably 10% PVA? 5% paint. 85% water. Edited March 20, 2020 by jukebox 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted March 20, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 20, 2020 Sorry, yes. I realised that, hid my post because it wasn't helping then noticed your edit. Tony used a higher proportion of PVA but when I asked him about this he couldn't say what proportion it was beyond "until it looked right". Whatever it was worked because he had no cracking albeit the embankments on LB aren't as extensive as what you are up to. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted March 20, 2020 Author Share Posted March 20, 2020 Hi Rob; As I said to Gordon, it's not a big deal - and this is the last "large" area I am skinning - there's others I have to terra-form, but much less area to cover, and none with the slope that side has. I have done so many other areas on the layout, and never had the cracking I had (twice!) in this particular region. The only thing I can think is different is the base material - I'm using old business shirts, instead of old sheets as my base. They may just take less plaster and so stay more flexible, then deform when the plaster outer skin goes on top. As I said, no use expending energy worrying - it can be solved easily, and is not a hurdle that is sapping my enthusiasm. The carrot is the fun part that comes next... Cheers Scott 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted March 21, 2020 Author Share Posted March 21, 2020 Beat the room temperature butter with a hand mixer, the paddle attachment of a stand mixer, or a wooden spoon until smooth and fluffy. Gradually beat in icing sugar until fully incorporated. Beat in vanilla extract. Pour in milk and beat for an additional 3-4 minutes. Apply to the cutting with flexible knife or spatula... Work into abnormal contours to provide a level base for a new skinning layer... Cover with a damp cloth and leave overnight to harden... Bon Appétit! Scott 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manna Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 G'Day Folks Wot, No Cherry.............!! manna 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drmditch Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 A 'cracking good job'...…………. Was going to suggest simulating colliery waste. (There used to be a lot of it visible in County Durham.) Not the nicest parts to remember. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted March 22, 2020 Author Share Posted March 22, 2020 Sunday night in Perth, as COVID-19 starts to bite Down Under. The buttercream/plaster I used to fill the cracking appears to have behaved itself as it cured; I did add PVA to it, but no colour - there didn't seem to be a point, knowing it would be skinned: I went ahead and skinned it... using the last of my third bag of Hydrocal midway. I'd bought another bag mid-week, so had to stop and decant it into 5L buckets. That's 90Kg of the stuff I've hauled upstairs now. It went on smoothly as planned (pun intended!). Trowelled into place 3-5mm thick, and then brush finished down the contours, which will be hidden by the ground cover anyway... I'll have to wait till Tuesday to see if that cracks. But it should be okay - though of course after I'd finished, I did wonder if I should have given the buttercream a week to totally dry in case it starts to open up.... Live dangerously, eh? The extra skin isn't a bad thing - it gives the scenery a bit of extra thickness and rigidity. It was good to be able to lie on the hill and work the spatula around the deep inside of the cutting. One day in the future, when I have shuffled off this mortal coil, my children and grandchildren will swear and curse as they try and break this lot up to get it out the room and back downstairs I'm sure. The slag heap is an interesting idea... but this side of the layout has a much more sylvan palette, so it would have needed to be on the opposite side near the MPD. There will be plenty of grot around there, I'm sure... Cheers Scott 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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