RMweb Gold Harry Posted October 28, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 28, 2012 Not sure if this is the correct place to put this question but wasn't sure where else it should go. I've recently brought a Bachmann mk1 coach for my p4 SR plank and have had a few problems. I have run a variety of easily converted vans, trucks etc through the paintwork with no problems and just swapped the Bachmann wheel sets with some p4 ones hoping this would work. It hasn't! It keeps catching the crossing and derailing. The back to back is a bit out and the frames aren't wide enough for the p4 wheel sets so I was thinking about replacing the bogies with brass compensated/ sprung ones. This is my first attempt at doing this kind of conversion and am not really sure what the options are out there and where to find what I want? Can anyone help? Also not too pleased with the wheel sets I brought for the conversion and they don't seem to run true so can anyone recommend better wheels (cant remember who my current ones were made by, think it said Gibson on the pack?) Thanks in advance for any help, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted October 28, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 28, 2012 Are they plastic centered? In any case if they don't run true they need to go back, replaced by wheels that do. I model 16.5mm and I don't tolerate wheels not running true, I can only imagine what happens in P4! (also don't forget the back to back will change as the wheel moves along too - a problem what ever gauge or standard your working in). Griff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Cram Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Not sure if this is the correct place to put this question but wasn't sure where else it should go. I've recently brought a Bachmann mk1 coach for my p4 SR plank and have had a few problems. I have run a variety of easily converted vans, trucks etc through the paintwork with no problems and just swapped the Bachmann wheel sets with some p4 ones hoping this would work. It hasn't! It keeps catching the crossing and derailing. The back to back is a bit out and the frames aren't wide enough for the p4 wheel sets so I was thinking about replacing the bogies with brass compensated/ sprung ones. This is my first attempt at doing this kind of conversion and am not really sure what the options are out there and where to find what I want? Can anyone help? Also not too pleased with the wheel sets I brought for the conversion and they don't seem to run true so can anyone recommend better wheels (cant remember who my current ones were made by, think it said Gibson on the pack?) Thanks in advance for any help, I would use an MJT compenstion unit and fix the Bachmann bogie sides to it. For wheels I think the best are exactoscale. More expensive but true running. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted October 28, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 28, 2012 I'd agree with avoiding plastic centred wheels, have found all metal maygib or branchlines wheels (steel or nickel respectively) You can make them fit by filling back the side frames (I assume you are looking at commonwealth or br1 bogies rather than b4s, the latter just need minor modifications) For new bogies look at the bill Bedford ones, much prefer sprining over the old 3 point compensation from mjt etc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 ....In P4 I lay good track flat on billiard table flat surfaces and use Ultrascale wheelsets (compensated)...result....it works! Have a look at 'Mostyn' on the Barrowmore MRG website....a great P4 layout with superb running. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harry Posted October 28, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 28, 2012 Thanks for the replies so quickly. A couple of follow-up questions if that's ok? - how do I know if I have commonwealth, B1 or B4 bogies? The model is a SR Bachmann SO Mk1 coach - I've looked on Bill Bedford's site and can't see anything that obviously says Mk1 bogies or underframe - which item do I need? - my track is also laid on a very flat surface (although not an actual polished piece of slate that would form a billiard table!! It was how to achieve the compensation that I was interested in. Is there a massive wait for ultrascale wheels? - which ultrascale wheels diamater do I need for Mk 1s? Sorry for all the questions but thanks in advance, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harry Posted October 28, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 28, 2012 Sorry, getting my ultras and exacto wrong! You recommended exactoscale and I said ultrascale! Exactoscale would be great as they'll be next day delivery in couple of weeks so will wait and order from them, still not sure which diameter though? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted October 28, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 28, 2012 I think all bills springie bits are now sold through Eilienes Going from memory a br1 and commonwealth bogie needs 14mm wheels, while the b4 is 12mm I suspect yours would be br1 or commonwealth if its a steam era mk1, if you can put a photo up that would help Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 ...I would speak with David Rodgers at Ultrascale about placing an order to arrive in 10 to 18 weeks time and in the meantime get the best that you can find. Beware the quality of stock wheels varies considerably. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 I designed my own, losely based on the mjt ones but with several improvements. I also changed the reliance on the torsion bar as in my experience this is the usual fail point. The bill bedford ones i tried were just too flimsy. My version are available from brassmasters http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/bogie_CUs.htm Hth Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harry Posted October 28, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 28, 2012 Thanks Jim - I'll put an order in for some of those tomorrow. I'm guessing it's 14mm diameter for mine but which wheelbase would it be for the SR SO Bachmann Mk1s? Thanks again, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWales Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Have used Gibson/Kean Maygib plastic centred coach wheels in EM with success but would certainly suggest some sort of compensation in 18.83. Try asking the questions to the Mostyn team, and for that purpose may be worth looking for old Rail Express mags as there are regular updates on the Barrowmore Club's activities Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Thanks Jim - I'll put an order in for some of those tomorrow. I'm guessing it's 14mm diameter for mine but which wheelbase would it be for the SR SO Bachmann Mk1s? Thanks again, You will need 8ft 6in and 14mm diameter for br1 or commonwealth. 12mm for a b4 (which looks like this ) Hth Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Torper Posted October 28, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 28, 2012 I've got four Bachmann Mk 1s that I converted to P4. First, let me say that there is no need to spring or compensate the bogies! Nor, in my experience, is it necessary to go to the expense of Exactoscale or Ultrascale wheels - certainly they are good, but I've found that Gibson wheels do the job perfectly well - all my coaches are fitted with Gibson coach wheels. You will however find that the bogies are just slightly too narrow for the P4 wheels, and you'll have to carve/file a bit of plastic away from the inside faces of the bogies to accommodate the wheels. When there's enough room for the wheels to run freely, put them in - there's no need to use brass wheel bearings, all you do is basically replace the Bachmann wheels with the Gibson ones. Then see how they run. Mine run beautifully, and have done so on a couple of other P4 layouts without any need for springing or compensation - there's no need to complicate matters if it's not necessary. Of course, in the unlikely event of you're being disatisfied with their running qualities you can then fit such springing/compensation units as you may wish, but I bet you won't find it necessary. DT. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Hi DT I agree in that you dont need to do anything to a coach bogie however the Bachmann bogies are made from an odd material that is fine at first but after a few days of exhibition running they get more and more sloppy to the point that they derail. Its wierd as I have airfix bogies that have run for years with no problems. Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 ....Is there a massive wait for ultrascale wheels? 18 weeks. Can you wait? ....Exactoscale would be great as they'll be next day delivery in couple of weeks.... Best to wait until nearer Christmas, so that C&L Finescale have time to sort all the stock they've taken on. Computer ordering systems have to be merged / updated as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Charlie Petty and Branchlines sell very good all metal coach discs, I think manufactured in New Zealamnd (???). These are available in 00 / EM and P4. Bill Bedford sprung coach bogies appear to work well, giving the coaches a nice gliding ride. I have not built any myself but Kempenfeldt(?) has a rake of four Bachman Mk1's so fitted in P4. Gordon A Bristol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Torper Posted October 29, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 29, 2012 the Bachmann bogies are made from an odd material that is fine at first but after a few days of exhibition running they get more and more sloppy to the point that they derail. After several days runing on a large exhibition layout such as yours, Jim, this may well happen, but I doubt if it will be a problem on the average layout. On my small end-to-end layout it'll probably take several years for my coaches to cover as much ground as yours do in a day at an exhibition. If it was a significant problem I would have thought that it would have been mentioned on this forum. Do remember that the P4 wheelsets put no more pressure on the bogies than did the original Bachmann ones - both are 26mm long, both have pin-point ends - so it would affect 00 users every bit as much P4 ones. Incidentally, I've successfully used the compensation unit that Jim designed when I've had to fit new bogies to kit built coaches, or replace inaccurate RTR bogies. It's simple and effective. I haven't tried the Branchline wheels as mentioned by Gordon, but I know they are highly thought of. The reason I've never thought of using them is probably because Branchlines doesn't appear to have a website, a great disadvantage in this day and age. DT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I agree with the comments re the fact Branchlines do not have a web site, however I have found them very helpful when contacted by telephone. Gordon a Bristol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portchullin Tatty Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Harry. You should find that the Bachmann Mk 1's run fairly well without sprung bogies; mine do and my trackwork is nowehere near as good as i pretend it is! Here are a few look outs that I have found can cause problems: - steer clear of Gibbo wheels if you can; especially where you are trying to get them into quite a tight bogie and spring the sides of the bogie out at the same time. It is too easy to get them to be a bit skew on the axle and this is a b****r! - be careful not to over tighten the underframe onto the body sides (or beware the manufacturer did not). If it is, then the boss that the bogie sits onto is no longer straight and as a result the bogie is not straight; keep them fairly sloppy. - be careful not to over tighten the bogie onto its boss, again you need a little slop. On most of mine, I put a piece of 10 - 15 though microstrip across the boss to form a very slight pivot to allow the bogie to rock on. - as someone has said, the commonwealth bogies are a problem as the damper sticks up above it and can get caught on the solebar. A quick slice with a knife sorts this out. Branchlines wheels are great; I would go with these. I think you will find that Ultrascale can do there wagon/coach wheels from stock; it is the drivers etc that have long order times. I really do like the Bill Bedford sprung bogies (which are indeed available from Eileens). However, get the coach going with simple replacement wheels in the first instance. One issue I sometimes get with the Bill Bedfords is that it is easy to get the brakes too close to the wheel - if you do it twice, then you get a short ciruit! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harry Posted November 16, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 16, 2012 After reading the 'when is it rude or lazy to ask questions on RMWeb?' thread I quickly thought I should reply to this thread to show my gratitude to the advice given and what a positive effect it has had on my modelling! After reading everything I have order some Kean Maygib wheels and some ultrascale wheels. Eventually I will have 6+ of the same coach so thought I'd use them all in the end. I have kept the original Bachmann bogies at the moment and now swapped the Gibson wheels for Kean ones which has made a positive difference. The coach now runs smoothly and with no bumps or wobbles so for now I will leave it like that. I also followed Mark's advice and checked there was no tightness in the bogie which helped. On very close inspection of my trackwork I further found a rust spot (steel rails!) between the stock rail and siwtch blade opening which was causing a tiny bump. I had previously attributed this to the wheelsets. Thanks again for all the advice and as a result I now have a smooth running coach! WIll post pictures of developing layout at some point when I get a mo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Is there a particular reason for not being able to use the Bachmann wheelsets as they come from the factory for EM if you change the B2B and file away some material for clearance ? Or is it because the flanges are too coarse for running on finescale 75 track? Im just considering moving to EM from 00 and so far so good on a Bachmann Mk1 but yes the frames are a tight squeeze. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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