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Longmoor Military Railway.


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Sir Guy Williams is modelled as running after 1962 whereas Major General McMullen is as running before June 1950 when the livery was much darker. If you wanted to run them together, both locomotives would need considerable changes both to livery and, in the case of Major General McMullen, conversion to oil burning. Major General McMullen was withdrawn in 1957 and Sir Guy Williams was withdrawn in mid 1965. 

 

There were a pair of ex-SECR birdcage brakes but not the ones modelled by Bachmann. The Mk 1 suburban stock appeared in blue long after both locomotives were scrapped. They first appeared in early 1965 but were not repainted in blue until 1967/8. The most appropriate coach for Major General McMullen would be the 6-wheel inspection saloon or other blue saloons as it was used for the Major General's visits.

 

Other coaches are as listed in volume 3 of The Longmoor Military Railway, a new history. From a modelling point of view, there are etched kits for the ex-LSWR blue saloon and the SECR birdcage brakes but I cannot find the details at the moment.

 

Tony

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Sir Guy Williams is modelled as running after 1962 whereas Major General McMullen is as running before June 1950 when the livery was much darker. If you wanted to run them together, both locomotives would need considerable changes both to livery and, in the case of Major General McMullen, conversion to oil burning. Major General McMullen was withdrawn in 1957 and Sir Guy Williams was withdrawn in mid 1965. 

 

There were a pair of ex-SECR birdcage brakes but not the ones modelled by Bachmann. The Mk 1 suburban stock appeared in blue long after both locomotives were scrapped. They first appeared in early 1965 but were not repainted in blue until 1967/8. The most appropriate coach for Major General McMullen would be the 6-wheel inspection saloon or other blue saloons as it was used for the Major General's visits.

 

Other coaches are as listed in volume 3 of The Longmoor Military Railway, a new history. From a modelling point of view, there are etched kits for the ex-LSWR blue saloon and the SECR birdcage brakes but I cannot find the details at the moment.

 

Tony

The LMR bought a complete 3-car set of 54ft birdcage stock from the SR in 1943 ( BT / CL / BTL).  Unfortunately they damaged the CL and scrapped it in 1955.  The BT & BTL survive on the K&ESR but the BT needs considerable restoration.  I don't believe there are kits available for this stock?  However if one was prepared to accept some minor dimensional discrepancies and was prepared to butcher the Bachmann 60ft BT and BTL by, basically, removing one compartment from each, I think one could make a reasonable representation of the LMR coaches.

 

Chris KT

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Our first house when Mrs bubbles2 and myself got married in 1979 was at Hazeldean Road, Griggs Green on the Longmoor Road between Liphook and Longmoor. Both having been bought up in the Guildford/Godalming area we had to move to Hampshire in order to afford to buy a house.

 

The circular section of the trackbed of the former railway was at the end of our road and when the red flags were not flying I often walked parts of it.

 

I can remember being driven by my uncle Jack down to Longmoor when I was probably 9 or 10, in the hope of seeing some railway action one Saturday, sadly there was little to see with no movement on the tracks.

 

Unfortunately, I never got to attend an open day but years later in a collection of railway memorabilia I was given an open day programme from 1968 which I have reproduced below, I hope some of you find it as interesting as I do.

 

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Edited by bubbles2
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One wonders who Mrs P.E Claxton was ....................

 

I assume she was the wife of Major-General Pat Claxton who, in 1970, was Transport Officer in Chief (Army). He performed the handover ceremony of Gordon and the Blue Saloons to the Longmoor Trust.

 

Tony

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@Geddi, I would be interested to know how you set about doing the transfers for the LMR.

I have the three volume book series on the LMR as well as a couple of others which help greatly when it comes to rolling stock as for my first ever layout I am modelling the Bordon branchline which had the exchange sidings for the LMR, albeit in N gauge.

 

Image from http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/b/bordon/

RN0LMM5.jpg

 

My effort so far:

lmV6GNF.jpg

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Danmk1,

 

The biggest difficulty with producing transfers for Longmoor is that they did not teach sign writing as an army trade. Therefore the font does not correspond exactly to any standard form. Also, in the later days, lettering of vehicles was done by whoever was available and this resulted in some variations. Most noticeable was the letter M in LMR. The centre stroke normally went to the base line but on some vehicles such as 878 Basra after about 1965 it ended half way down. The best bet is to look at the photos from the relevant date.

 

When I did some experiments a couple of years ago, Gill Sans in bold was the nearest I could find for the letters and British Dark Normal Regular for the numbers. However, these were not 100% accurate.

 

Tony

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  • 3 months later...

The July and August 2018 issues of Railway Bylines have a number of LMR photos. In the latest issue there is one of S160 Major General Carl R.Gray Jr, being cut up in 1957 despite having a heavy overhaul the previous year and nearly as wasteful one of Austerity WD203 Ahwaz which  was stored from new in 1953, used from 1958 and scrapped in 1963.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The plan is very interesting as that whole area of pointwork is now under the A3. Having exercised there a lot, I have often tried to align diagrams with the ground. Even 50 years later there is a lot still evident; getting less every year and the changes on the former REME barracks are probably removing the western remains. Not been there for over 3 years so I'm sure a lot has changed.

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  • 2 months later...
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  • 2 years later...

For a short moment I suddenly got excited when I saw Piko were releasing a Whitcomb Bo-bo diesel, https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/41504

 

Unfortunately I checked images of 890 Tobruk and saw it’s a different version, 890 had its bonnets less sloped to allow windows looking across them. https://railphotoprints.uk/p242188935/h61E85348
 

Still, if Piko make one version they might make another, or someone enterprising will 3D print a new body...

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19 minutes ago, ovbulleid said:

For a short moment I suddenly got excited when I saw Piko were releasing a Whitcomb Bo-bo diesel, https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/41504

 

Unfortunately I checked images of 890 Tobruk and saw it’s a different version, 890 had its bonnets less sloped to allow windows looking across them. https://railphotoprints.uk/p242188935/h61E85348
 

Still, if Piko make one version they might make another, or someone enterprising will 3D print a new body...

The only major difference between the various Whitcomb locomotives was the cab, the shape of the bonnets was the same. As originally supplied to British forces for use in North Africa they had a full size boxy 'American' cab (and cow catchers). They also had a double row of vents on the hood side panels covered by wire mesh. Later when the war moved on to Italy the cabs were cut down to fit the Italian loading gauge. It was two of these locomotives that ended up in Longmore. For D-day initially the cut down version was continued with a slightly more rounded cab and the hood vents changed to a single row with louvres. Even this would not be able to traverse all lines in Europe so the cab was lowered by moving the compressors from beneath the cab floor and putting them in a box on the footplate (like the 08). The final version is the one modelled by Piko. The only drawback with this model from my point of view is that it is in H0 scale, I would prefer 00.

There is an excellent 00 scale drawing of Tobruk in 'The Longmoor Military Railway Vol III'. 

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  • 1 month later...
20 hours ago, Leadmill said:

The Hattons Genesis Coaches Run 3 will include Longmoor Versions.

Unfortunately though, the only 4 or 6 wheel carriage recorded at Longmoor is the KESR officer’s saloon, which won’t be done by Hattons, making the run of carriages entirely fictitious 

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  • 1 month later...

I never saw the LMR but as military railways go the Bruggen branch passed my Station HQ window there,   Very mundane until I alerted the whole building to watch a spectacular train crash as a race between a train and a 317MT tractor hauling a Queen Mary trailer on the level crossing immediately outside!   My interest in military railways came as I searched for a railway where anything goes subject to minimal regulations.   I have known David Ronald since those Bruggen days but in respect of trams!   It was his Part One of LMR with Mike Christensen that made me look up and realised the LMR was the basis.   Then Mike introduced me to just how wide the modelling extent was of the rolling stock potential with wagon registers controlled at Bicester.

 

My problem was space to provide a circular track like the Hollywell loop just to play trains to suit me!   I only had the limited use of the dining room table and when fully extended could have temporary layout using sectional track, a few buildings but no other scenery.   I discovered the Lydd camo and its connection to Lydd Town station.   Hence my LMR standing for Lydd to cover all non-Longmoor stock.   However, my decision to cease scratch and kit building and just use RTR has seen a resurgence in the past Lydd which can be seen in the attached views.   Although Lydd Camp station is not in position yet the extent of the fiddle yard allows a 2-DEMU or 2-car motor train to deliver employees AM from Brighton and Ashford with the return to Ashford taking the town's school children and the PM return.   The camp has its own internal interconnecting passenger service.   Having ridden on "Western Waggoner" I just had to have the Bachmann set!

Lydd MR - camp end - 2nd stage.jpg

Lydd MR - fiddle yard - 3rd stage.jpg

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7 hours ago, coline33 said:

I never saw the LMR but as military railways go the Bruggen branch passed my Station HQ window there,   Very mundane until I alerted the whole building to watch a spectacular train crash as a race between a train and a 317MT tractor hauling a Queen Mary trailer on the level crossing immediately outside!

Where and when was that calamity? I spent 5 happy years posted to Brüggen and we never had a train there even once! It was Javelin Barracks by then so no need for fuel or bomb deliveries... the Royal Signals had ruined it by then:D.

 

That line also served Arsbeck (all lifted by my time in thd 2000s) which was a training area but had formerly been the site of 3 BPAD fuel depot. (Base Petroleum and Ammunition Depot, the rear stores for pushing the stocks forward). The line took a long and circuitous route around to the south side of Moenchengladbach.  The fuel depot had long closed as supply lines across Europe were reinstated, but ammo was still being stored at Bracht until 1995 when it was road and rail moved back to UK and some 'forward'to Wulfen. The last remaining fuel depot - Pet Det - at Warendorf near Gutesloh closed in 1995.

 

The Army loco at Wulfen was moved to MoD Kineton for a while but being continental loading gauge was limited in its use and little used until its disposal.T

 

The Royal Engineers had the trains again by then, after the Royal Corps of Transport had been in charge as they were at Longmoor, before them going back to the Royal Logistic Corps and finally being wound up a Reserve operation around 2002. The two RE railway men at Wulfen (Mick Swann and Mel Chappel) were the happiest soldiers I ever met!!! Their civvies and they had a splendid bar set up in the remains of a former ambulance train, alongside the former MT hangers dating from WW2 when the rest of the ammo depot had been rebuilt in the late 80s early 90s

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Many thanks, Davey, for the update, it was greatly appreciated.   I was at RAF Bruggen 1958-9 in the days of very active 80,87 and 213 Squadrons, the first two with their night fighters so it was a 24/7 busy noisy place!

 

Now I appreciate that my illustrated post maybe judged as O/T but it is the standard that is best to encourage young ones to consider military railways even as an adjunct to the mainline ones.   However Longmoor is well represented with the whole of my steam fleet being Longmoor but not the diesel fleet.   It is here that I do beg all the group to swell a lobby to request Hornby to release their RH48DS in LMR blue named CAEN.   I have also put the request in the RH48DS forum.   This little machine was a true survivor!!!   Page 697 of "LMR- Part 3" for drawing and photos.

 

I have WD 802 plus its Conflat runner truck PAL3 whatever the latter means!   This loco is a beautiful runner and shunter without that truck.   With CAEN being self-contained what does one do about the runner?   Best to re-decorate it with BR Conflat transfers!!!   I can find no record of the army having a single Conflat.   If anyone can prove otherwise with number I will gladly add to my 'Bicester records'.

 

At present I have abandoned the Conflat as to make it fit for army purpose I will have to cut off the Conflat side pieces to form a flat or 1-plank open repainted in army green.    The best number for a flat is AD 40004 (became 47815 and finally WGF4413 at Bicester) or as a 1-plank WD 45126 on the SMR.

 

CAEN arrived new at Longmoor in 1945 (being sold in 1959) when during WW2 there were SHUNTERS TRUCK 1 (13642) and 2 (13641) but there are no photos or further detail.   Interestingly, the army did purchase a GWR shunters truck for use at Long Marston as 42111.   Not to be confused with the first 42111 at Shoeburyness which was renumbered, the shunters truck taking its number.   

 

Hornby "bring on CAEN"!   Colin.

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My next review of available RTR LMR stock is of carriages.   Many years ago I considered the Bachmann Mk.1 Suburban stock for 400 but as TonyA posted years ago beware of the colour of these carriages in relation to the livery on the 2-8-0s.   Length of train then became a consideration not to proceed so I was very pleased with the Invicta release.   On my current layout I can only manage a one coach train - perfect!   Next will be vans and wagons.

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