Popular Post TheLaird Posted November 10, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted November 10, 2012 (edited) Developing the operation of my previous layout by basing it on an actual location has triggered my interest in modelling a real location. I want to operate the real WTT in the same way as it would have been done on the real railway as far as I consider it practical to do so. This requires a fair amount of research to establish the way things were done and quite a lot of this is underway. I will be able to include all running lines and nearly all sidings. I want to signal the layout as per prototype and have them all working. Ideally, I will replicate the signal box lever frames and operate with bell codes. I also want to model the trains as accurately as possible and am planning on a max train length of 10 coaches. I have also decided to switch to EM gauge. Although this will be a one man construction, I am fortunate to have a number of others willing to help with research and planning . One of the reasons for starting the thread is to enable anyone to contribute with information if they so wish, anything relevant will be gratefully received. So having said what I want to achieve, what is it that I am actually going to build? The plan is to construct a reasonably accurate model of Leeds City North or as the Midland Railway named it Leeds Wellington. It is a six platform terminus station very close to the centre of Leeds. All that remains now is the old platforms five and six, the remainder form the car park of Leeds City. Platform six is the new platform one. Although the old MR station was incorporated into the new joint station, it continued to operate almost independently right to the end in 1967 when it was converted to a parcels depot. I will initially set the period as 1962 but when sufficient steam loco’s become available I will turn the clock back to 1957. So no pictures yet but I will post some plans when they are finalised. John E Edited January 17, 2013 by TheLaird 23 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyrush Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 The National Archives has a plan of Leeds Wellington under reference RAIL 491/640, but I imagine it will be a little early for your purposes, being dated 1868. Also to be found at the NA is 'West Riding of the County of York. City & County Borough of Leeds. Holbeck widening and Whitehall Junction. Sheet No. 2': plan covering an area from Aire Street to the Leeds and Liverpool Canal and showing stations and railway lines. Scale: plan and horizontal sections 1 inch to 2 chains; vertical sections 1 inch to 40 feet. This is dated 1901. Probably of rather more use would be the large scale track plans from the former BR/OPC collection, now held by the NRM under reference 21159 (3 plans). Good luck with Son of Bradfield, and let me know if you are ever short of exhibition operators! (assuming it is destined to be exhibited) Andy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
clecklewyke Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Will you be building the art deco station concourse, which I presume was built in the 1930s? One thing I remember from the early 1960s was a news cinema in the NE corner, which I never visited as we never had enough time between trains when we were travelling from Hull to the Lake District with the church choir - we went on an annual youth hostel walking holiday with the vicar and choir master. I'm really looking forward to seeing more of this project. Best wishes, Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted November 10, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 10, 2012 There are a lot of photos and plans in 'Leeds Termini' published by Challenger ISBN 1-899624-27-9 . I well remember using that whenm at the age of 5, we moved house from Chesterfield to Clapham (North Yorks) in 1959 and the porter wheeling our stuff down the ramp from leeds new to the Midland Paltforms. I wasn't happy at the way he handled the box with our cat in it). Jamie 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Looking forward to seeing this one take shape from the start John. Cheers. Sean. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerner Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Shall follow with huge amounts of interest. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLaird Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 Will you be building the art deco station concourse, which I presume was built in the 1930s? Ian Hi Ian, the concourse was built around 1938 as part of the LMS rebuilding and formed the link between "Wellington" and "New" station as it was called before being renamed "City". That was about as far as the "integration" went. It is of course still standing and renovated to its art deco splendour, complete with Macdonalds and Wetherspoons!! I will model it in low relief against the end backscene. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Potential showing at this comings years RM Web Members days per chance. Just a taster of things to come. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLaird Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 The National Archives has a plan of Leeds Wellington under reference RAIL 491/640, but I imagine it will be a little early for your purposes, being dated 1868. Also to be found at the NA is 'West Riding of the County of York. City & County Borough of Leeds. Holbeck widening and Whitehall Junction. Sheet No. 2': plan covering an area from Aire Street to the Leeds and Liverpool Canal and showing stations and railway lines. Scale: plan and horizontal sections 1 inch to 2 chains; vertical sections 1 inch to 40 feet. This is dated 1901. Probably of rather more use would be the large scale track plans from the former BR/OPC collection, now held by the NRM under reference 21159 (3 plans). Good luck with Son of Bradfield, and let me know if you are ever short of exhibition operators! (assuming it is destined to be exhibited) Andy Thanks for the info Andy, you are quite right about some of it being a bit early. The rebuilding and re modelling by the LMS in the 1930's formed the basis of what was left in the 1950's and is what I intend to model. The BR/OPC plans held by the NRM sound like they could be useful and I will try and persue them. There must have been drawings produced for the rebuilding in the thirties, I am told that the LMS drawing office in Manchester would have covered the Leeds area and wonder if the Manchester science Museum may have them or may have passed them to the NRM!! Something else to follow up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLaird Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 Potential showing at this comings years RM Web Members days per chance. Just a taster of things to come. Probably won't require much stand space!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Never mind, will be worth the wait to see it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 It's already added to my 'content I follow ' list. Looking forward to this. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyrush Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Thanks for the info Andy, you are quite right about some of it being a bit early. The rebuilding and re modelling by the LMS in the 1930's formed the basis of what was left in the 1950's and is what I intend to model. The BR/OPC plans held by the NRM sound like they could be useful and I will try and persue them. There must have been drawings produced for the rebuilding in the thirties, I am told that the LMS drawing office in Manchester would have covered the Leeds area and wonder if the Manchester science Museum may have them or may have passed them to the NRM!! Something else to follow up. Manchester County Record Office has the following: LMS - Leeds Wellington Station - Demolition of existing buildings and making up new deck A/LNW/1/156 1935 LMS - Leeds Wellington Station - Re-inforcing concrete decking A/LNW/1/157 1936 LMS - Leeds Wellington /City Station - Roof details - Parcels Office A/LNW/1/158 1934-46 LMS - Leeds Wellington - Plans showing new building line to existing buildings A/LNW/1/159 1936-7 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Parcels office - New doors A/LNW/1/160 1935-6 LMS - Leeds City - Station - New concourse - details A/LNW/1/161 1935 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Waiting and refreshment rooms Details A/LNW/1/162 1937 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Ironmongery and door furniture A/LNW/1/163 1937 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Office building details A/LNW/1/164 1937 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Office building details A/LNW/1/165 1937 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Office building details A/LNW/1/166 1937 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Office building details A/LNW/1/167 1937 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Office building details A/LNW/1/168 1937 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Concourse - Showcases etc. A/LNW/1/169 1937 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Office building - layout A/LNW/1/170 1937 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Office building - windows A/LNW/1/171 1937-8 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Concourse & platform details A/LNW/1/172 1937-8 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Concourse and station offices - details and layout A/LNW/1/173 1938 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Concourse and entrance A/LNW/1/174 1938 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Offices A/LNW/1/175 1936-8 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Office building - details A/LNW/1/176 1938 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Office building - details A/LNW/1/177 1938 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Office building - details A/LNW/1/178 1937-8 Sounds like some of these may be what you are looking for Andy 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leander Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) Leeds City North (Wellington) - son of Bradfield! Otherwise known as 'Bradfield on Steroids'! The Laird has a winter 1962/3 working time table which will form the basis for the planned sequence. We're also fortunate in being able to access the London Midland Region Midland Lines Passenger Train Marshalling book for 10th September 1962 to 16th June 1963 (or until further notice) via a scan on Robert Carrolls excellent BRCoachingStock Yahoo group, found HERE Whilst this only covers trains travelling south of Chesterfield on the Midland Main Line, it gives us almost all the Class 1 train formations, the only exceptions being the Leeds-Glasgow working and its return train, and the Leeds - Morecambe/Carnforth services. Several of the class 2 Leeds-Sheffield trains were also steam hauled at this time. Published photographs (in print and on t'internet) are being scrutinised to give us the actual formations for the period concerned. As well as Leeds Terminii, the recent Book Law publication on Leeds City is useful, whist several books in the Bellcode series on the railways of West & South Yorkshire are an invaluable resource. We're slowly figuring out how the station was worked but more information on this subject, and details of which platforms were served by the arrivals and departures throughout the 24 hour period would be more than useful. Edited November 11, 2012 by Leander 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted November 11, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 11, 2012 Will follow this one with interest too. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted November 11, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 11, 2012 Got some time on Tuesday night, I'll scan my material then (how much I get done in the first attack will depend how easy the scans are) Edit - I've just won the Leeds 1967 resignalling notice, which may be of interest. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted November 11, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 11, 2012 Some of Donald Binn's many books may be of use as they show the trains further north and the one about the Little North Western has many photos of the Morecambe trains. There is one of his older ones called IIRC Railways in Airedale that covers the line out of Leeds. I can't remember the exact formations accurately but do remember meeting myt brother at Giggleswick on his way home from school with a 2P hauled trian. I'll also look in my father's trainspotting diaries for those dates and see if there are any locos recorded that would be of use. Jamie 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leander Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Some of Donald Binn's many books may be of use as they show the trains further north and the one about the Little North Western has many photos of the Morecambe trains. There is one of his older ones called IIRC Railways in Airedale that covers the line out of Leeds. I can't remember the exact formations accurately but do remember meeting myt brother at Giggleswick on his way home from school with a 2P hauled trian. I'll also look in my father's trainspotting diaries for those dates and see if there are any locos recorded that would be of use. Jamie Thanks Jamie, that would be good of you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyrush Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 A few more references from the database, this time from the Ken Hoole Study Centre at Darlington: Perspective East Yorkshire: Journal Of The York And East Yorkshire Architectural Society. May, June 1966. Railways: Sunderland; North East Region; Leeds City; Wakefield Westgate; Gateshead; Selby; Harrogate; Durham; Billingham; Berwick. KH.219 Ministry Of Transport. Railway Accident. Report On The Collision Which Occurred On 10th August 1961 At Leeds City Station In The North Eastern Region British Railways. KH.3447 Railway Views. Leeds (East - West). KH.937 British Railways - North Eastern Operating Area. Carriage Working From 18th June, To 9th September, 1962. Br. 31261/1. KH.2673 British Railways - North Eastern Operating Area. Hours Of Opening Of Signal Boxes; Leeds Operating District. 4th. April, 1960 Until Further Notice. X. KH.2643 British Railways - North Eastern Region. Working Timetable Of Passenger Trains. Llth. September 1961 To 17th. June 1962. KH.2189 Westinghouse Brake & Sig. Co. Electro-pneumatic points and colour signal operation, Leeds New. 1937 JFM/5837 Leeds Wellington Goods Yard. Diagram 53, altered to 240, April 1919, revised December 1938. Diagram only JFM/7000/209 Leeds Wellington Goods Yard. Diagram 53A, altered to 240, December 1925, revised December 1938. Table only JFM/7000/210 Front Sheet of 'Leeds New Station. Extension and Enlargement of Station, New Approach Road, Stopping up of Existing Road. Plans & Sections.' 1873 - 1874 NERA 1418-34-02 Digital format only Plan and Sections of Leeds New Station. Scales: Horizontal, ? Chains to one inch. Vertical, ? Feet to an inch. '1873 – 1874 NERA 1418-34-03 Digital format only Plan of Wellington Station. Scale: ? Chains to one inch. 1873 - 1874 NERA 1418-34-04 Digital format only Plan and Section of Wellington Station. Scales: Horizontal. ? Chains to one inch. Vertical. ? Feet to one inch. 1873 - 1874 NERA 1418-34-05 Digital format only Andy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyrush Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 And finally, for today anyway , a few more references: Midland Railway Study Centre 12373 24 February 1888 Architect's Office drawing of Proposed Alteration to Drainage at Leeds Station. Shows plan and utilisation of rooms on platform building and location of adjacent Queens Hotel. National Archives RAIL 1135/105 1938 London and North Eastern and London Midland and Scottish Railways. Leeds City Station West and East Boxes RAIL 431/38 1933-6 Queen's Hotel Leeds, Wellington Station: proposed re-building RAIL 1057/2738 1936 Laying of Foundation Stones of Office and Hotel Buildings at Leeds (Wellington) Station, 7 Oct. 1936. Site plan enclosed Off to listen to Jim Connor talk about the North London Railway now.... Andy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonHGB Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Evening, Not seen it mentioned afore on here, but http://www.davidheyscollection.com/ would more then likely prove useful, I prowl its pages all the time, some very good anecdote-y articles and a lot of really useful information on West Yorks railways, particularly the Steam/Diesel transition, and the years immediately prior and after. Regards, and best wishes. Jon. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted November 13, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 13, 2012 Here's the plan of the area after Leeds PSB was commissioned on 29 April 1967 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Hello john, ...........hopefully there's one or two fresh ones ? http://www.flickr.com/photos/thanoz/5233532889/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/thanoz/5942841606/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/27677450@N05/3194480556/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/6678328469/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/thanoz/3802684559/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/thanoz/4987454531/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/thanoz/ and finally:- http://www.flickr.com/groups/oldleodis/ not many 'Wellington' pics in the last link but some interesting pics nonetheless. Rgds Andy 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 For some reason I can't post more than 4 links in one post so..........here's the rest:- http://www.flickr.com/photos/thanoz/5233532889/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/27677450@N05/3194480556/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/thanoz/3802684559/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/thanoz/ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 (edited) Really have no idea what's goin' on now............ but each time I try to post links I can only post 1/2 the number in the previous post ????????????? http://www.flickr.co...noz/5233532889/ Edited November 13, 2012 by leopardml2341 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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