Leeds City, the Midland Side, in 4mm.

[Ray H]

Are there any updates?

[Leander]

On 07/08/2022 at 17:35, Ray H said:

Are there any updates?

Regular operating sessions are ongoing, usually one or two per month, to the winter 1962/63 WTT. I'll be seeing TheLaird (John E) on Thursday so I'll draw his attention to your post.

[Ray H]

9 hours ago, Leander said:

Regular operating sessions are ongoing, usually one or two per month, to the winter 1962/63 WTT. I'll be seeing TheLaird (John E) on Thursday so I'll draw his attention to your post.

 

Many thanks. I was just hoping that work hadn't stalled (or worse) 😒

[HAB]

12 hours ago, Ray H said:

 

Many thanks. I was just hoping that work hadn't stalled (or worse) 😒

 

Even the S&T team found COVID lockdowns a hindrance, but we never ground completely to a halt, and the latest development is the installation of an "eNtry eXit"-style panel at Leeds West, controlling the hidden sidings representing Leeds City South and also Canal Junction between the Routes from Farnley Junction and Leeds City Junction boxes.

We did consider using digital technology for this (given it was always going to be complex) but in the end opted for our existing and well-proven Relay Logic approach.  From the operators veiwpoint it looks simple enough:-

 

 

.. but its innards (seen here part complete) tell a different tale! 

 

 

We used our own design of PCB for the each of the modularised relay controllers for each point/route - 23 of them in total - as well as for the diode array boards which contain the logic for the route selection, interlocking and display controls.  All that involved no small learning curve in designing PCBs as well as having them made to order on the other side of the planet (and delivered within a week!) There is an additional panel of 30-odd relays which provides the interlocking and block controls for the Track-Circuit-Block Section to Leeds City Junction.

All that amounts to almost 190 relays and a couple of hundred Diodes.  Perhaps for the next one, the decision regarding a Digital Solution might need to be re-examined ...!

 

Hope that is of interest,

Howard

 

(edited for gramatical and arithmetic errors!)

 

Edited August 9, 2022 by HAB

[Ray H]

Howard

 

Many thanks. It does look like you've not stagnated.

 

 

[Scorch]

Hi John,

Thank you for taking the time to post your progress on Leeds City, I have found your thread interesting and inspiring. Your use of sound equipped loco’s on Leeds City, and it’s predecessor, is the most convincing I have come across.  I am interested to know your thoughts on how best to allocate particular sounds to Function keys for ease of operation.  Have you developed a standardised system for the use of Function Keys across all of your sound decoders and, if so, would you mind sharing it with us?  In addition, are you planning to use the new Zimo MS series decoders with their 2 Quick Select keys and, if so, how do you envisage amending your Function Key mapping to access this capability?

Many thanks for your help and inspiration.

Andy

[Leander]

Hello Andy (Scorch).

The locos in use belong to TheLaird and two or three  of the 'Friends' of LCN and haven't had their control functions standardised (yet). The Peaks and DMUs have ESU chips with West Coast Digital (WCD) sound files, generally using v4.0 chips. Several of the earlier v3.5 decoders remain in some of the locos but they have generally been phased out of use now as more steam outline locos have become available for use. Most of these have Zimo sound decoders of the MX644/645/648 types. As yet I think I'm correct in saying that we haven't got any of the newer MS series type, and most, but not all, of the Fairburn tanks still have the ESU/WCD type, a couple of which ran on Bradfield in their 00 days.

Most of the steam locos have sound files produced by YouChoos, and I write as a highly satisfied customer. Function key F8 has been modified on several (but not all) locos to give a 'coasting' capability so the driver doesn't have to continually and gradually reduce the speed to prevent it 'chuffing ' to a stop. An LMS Compound with an ESU v4.0 chip and a Howes sound file was almost impossible to stop 'chuffing'! Therefore any steam locos with ESU chips have been replaced with our preferred Zimo type.

I hope this has proved useful.

Pete

[TheLaird]

Andy, thanks for your kind words. Further to Petes comprehensive and informative reply, there is a partly standardised system for decoder functions. As Pete says we still have a lot of legacy decoders going back to ESU v3.5 and so any numbering system has to take account of that. F2 is the dynamic brake, F3 Whistle or Horn, F5 Light Engine mode, F8 Coasting (where available), F9 flange Squeal and F12 inertia On/Off. Because the DMU's have to be consisted to run in multiple, the dynamic brake function cannot be used and so F2 is used for the Horn. 

 

Regards JohnE

[Roger Sunderland]

Hi there

Interested to hear about the modified F8 key for coasting, something I would also very much like to have. Is this something that John at You Choos has incorporated for you or something you have programmed in yourself?

[Leander]

1 hour ago, Roger Sunderland said:

Hi there

Interested to hear about the modified F8 key for coasting, something I would also very much like to have. Is this something that John at You Choos has incorporated for you or something you have programmed in yourself?

Roger, John Gymer has incorporated it at our request. John Brighton (Millhouses) had it first.

[MarshLane]

On 09/08/2022 at 21:04, HAB said:

Even the S&T team found COVID lockdowns a hindrance, but we never ground completely to a halt, and the latest development is the installation of an "eNtry eXit"-style panel at Leeds West, controlling the hidden sidings representing Leeds City South and also Canal Junction between the Routes from Farnley Junction and Leeds City Junction boxes.

 

 

 

Hi Howard,

Could you advise where you have got the clear perspex push-buttons for (like on the 'Want 128' and 'Reverse 127' options) please? I have been looking for ages, but haven't found anything like that.

Rich

[Scorch]

Hi John and Pete,

 

Thank you both so much for your helpful and comprehensive answers to my Email.  I too am a very satisfied customer of John at Youchoos and it was a discussion with him about the capabilities of the new Zimo MS decoders that lead to my questions.  Apparently you can use two quick select features to give you access to 3 ‘alternative chuffs sets’.  John defines his sounds on MS decoders as set1=‘normal’ set2=’light’ set3=’heavy’.  The quick select keys have to be consecutive to each other, but can start anywhere.  John currently uses F7 and F8 on MS decoders as his default option.  Press F7 and you get ‘light’ chuffs.  Press F8 and you get ‘heavy’ chuffs.  John also assigns shunt mode and solo driving modes to F7, as they work together well reducing momentum etc.

Alternatively you could have these quick select keys on F5+F6 for example, but then you’d need to move whatever is there at the moment elsewhere.

 

Given your current standardisation, if you were to add MS decoders to your fleet, would you have the Quick Selects for Light and Heavy on F5 and F6 or F7 and F8?  In addition, by my maths, you would still have 2 function keys in the easily accessible F1 to F9 range available.  So, of all the additional sounds available in Johns library, which 2 do you think would be the most useful for realistic operation?

 

Many thanks again for all your help and kind regards

 

Andy

 

[HAB]

17 hours ago, MarshLane said:

 

Hi Howard,

Could you advise where you have got the clear perspex push-buttons for (like on the 'Want 128' and 'Reverse 127' options) please? I have been looking for ages, but haven't found anything like that.

Rich

 

Hi Ric,

 

There are million or two to look through at RS Online.  I think these are the actual ones we used:-

 

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/push-button-switches/8207527

 

... and you will also find various colour/voltage/rating options. 

 

Best Wishes,

Howard

[MarshLane]

On 13/09/2022 at 14:13, HAB said:

 

Hi Ric,

 

There are million or two to look through at RS Online.  I think these are the actual ones we used:-

 

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/push-button-switches/8207527

 

... and you will also find various colour/voltage/rating options. 

 

Best Wishes,

Howard

 

Thanks for that Howard, they looked different to those on the panel.  Funny how things change when you can only see a small part of it! Thanks for the link.

Rich

[HAB]

23 hours ago, MarshLane said:

 

Thanks for that Howard, they looked different to those on the panel...

 

I think that might be because the panel has a Perspex over-lay and all the buttons protrude through holes cut into this (The Laird's laser at work again!) whilst the LED indications are mounted behind the Perspex.

[KeithHC]

What’s the latest from Leeds haven’t seen anything for 9 months. This is one of my want to see layouts……..

 

Keith

[Leander]

12 hours ago, KeithHC said:

What’s the latest from Leeds haven’t seen anything for 9 months. This is one of my want to see layouts……..

 

Keith

Hi Keith, we continue to have running (or operating days), in fact, the latest was today in almost tropical conditions. About five hours of the timetable were run in almost 'even time', covering the middle of the day. Scenically the railway hasn't developed any further but operationally it continues to evolve and become more refined. The role of 'Control' in particular has been better defined and the drivers' 'tickets' which specify which trains they are to work has been formalised and is now much less 'ad hoc' than it was previously.

 

TheLaird is planning changes to the approach tracks and junctions on the approaches to and from the 'north' fiddle yard, both in the light of operating experience gained over the past few years, and to facilitate the changed demands which are envisaged when we 'roll back the clock' from 1962 to 1958. Karl Crowther has almost finished building two Mike Edge LMS 3MT 2-6-2Ts for members of the group. These will become 'signature' locos in handling the loal passenger traffic, in company with the existing 2-6-4Ts. We've discovered that we won't be able to bid farewell to the DMUs completely however.We're also awaiting the return to the layout of several LMS 4-6-0s which are receiving the 'Timara treatment'.

 

 Visitors are permitted but strictly on an invitation only basis. I suggest PM'ing John (TheLaird) if you are seriously interested in paying a visit, but if accepted as this would most likely be on a running day,  be prepared to roll your sleeves up, get stuck in, and learn.

 

Pete

[KeithHC]

Great to hear all is going well. Looking forwards to updates in the future. I do like the use of both steam and diesel this is one layout that captures the transition from one to the other.

 

Keith

[Dragonboy]

Great to hear that things are progressing. Must be about due for some new video footage - hint hint.

 

Brian

[KeithHC]

Any updates would like to see how it is progressing.

 

Keith

[Leander]

I’ve missed the last two running days but I do know that John has built new junction point work on the approaches to the north fiddle yard. These have now been laid and wired up. They afford much more flexibility and more roads can be accessed than previously when it proved impossible at times to have simultaneous arrivals and departures which wreacked havoc with timekeeping.

 

Karl has finished the two Stanier 3MT tanks, which have been tested, but put to one side for now as they don’t fit in with the current September 1962 timescale. They will see service once the change to the 1958 timetable occurs.

 

The monthly operating/running sessions continue. 

[HAB]

Quick snap of the session from last week.  Rare to see the station this empty!

 

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by HAB
Added missing text, spilling mistook

[MarshLane]

Great to see an update from Leeds City. Look forward to more in the fullness of time!

Rich