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BR(W) autocoach liveries.

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What were the approximate timescales for the liveries carried in BR days by the ex-GWR diag 28 and diag 30 autocoaches please?

 

Thank you.

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The first repaints from GWR livery would have been into blood and custard. This was the practice until Swindon received a missive from On High politely telling them that auto trailers were not main line coaches and should not be dressed like them. The memo is reproduced in one of John Lewis's books.and was issued in, I think, 1952. Repaints after that were in plain crimson until 1956 when unlined maroon was introduced. From mid 1959 onwards they received lined maroon. Some trailers retained chocolate and cream until they were withdrawn - one of R C Riley's early colour slides clearly shows such a trailer in the formation of a Saltash - Plymouth auto as late as 1955.

 

W193W [A30] was used on a railtour in South Wales in July 1957 and was still in blood and custard, if that's any help.

 

Chris

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The first repaints from GWR livery would have been into blood and custard. This was the practice until Swindon received a missive from On High politely telling them that auto trailers were not main line coaches and should not be dressed like them. The memo is reproduced in one of John Lewis's books.and was issued in, I think, 1952. Repaints after that were in plain crimson until 1956 when unlined maroon was introduced. From mid 1959 onwards they received lined maroon. Some trailers retained chocolate and cream until they were withdrawn - one of R C Riley's early colour slides clearly shows such a trailer in the formation of a Saltash - Plymouth auto as late as 1955.

 

W193W [A30] was used on a railtour in South Wales in July 1957 and was still in blood and custard, if that's any help.

 

Chris

 

Thanks for the info. I had the red and cream, plain crimson, a** about face so need to restructure my running list of what coach to run with a particular engine. Also explains why Airfix and Hornby plain crimson B-Sets have a 'W' suffix to their running number.

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I have an Airfix Autocoach in Custard & Cream which I have added a chassis upgrade kit to and want to run it with a Hattons BR 14xx.

Am also fitting Flushglaze windows and painting the inside.

Were any run with BR logo's on Choc &Cream or do I need to repaint the body ?

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I have an Airfix Autocoach in Custard & Cream which I have added a chassis upgrade kit to and want to run it with a Hattons BR 14xx.

Am also fitting Flushglaze windows and painting the inside.

Were any run with BR logo's on Choc &Cream or do I need to repaint the body ?

 

I wouldn't use the SE Flushglaze windows on your autocoach. I'd go for the Shawplan Lazerglase version instead: much better looking. If you're thinking of the A28 (not A30) diagram, then leave the windows as they are: the A28 windows were recessed in real life.

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Shawplan Lazerglase

 

I don't know this supplier and I'm not getting on very well with the website.  I'm looking for illustrations.

 

It seems to me that if one is dissatisfied with RTR glazing, this has more to do with the thickness of the plastic body than anything else.  In other words, if your prototype was not 'flush glazed' what you really would like to do is file down the inside of the RTR coach until placing the window material behind it produces the right pre-flushglaze effect .  I see why SE Flushglaze went the way they did, but it leaves a kind of bulbous effect, regardless of whether you set them back or press them in fully.

 

In other words, if the thickness of the plastic was less, then the standard RTR method would be OK.  The new Hornby Colletts are fine in this respect, IMO..

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Shawplan Lazerglase

 

I don't know this supplier and I'm not getting on very well with the website.  I'm looking for illustrations.

 

It seems to me that if one is dissatisfied with RTR glazing, this has more to do with the thickness of the plastic body than anything else.  In other words, if your prototype was not 'flush glazed' what you really would like to do is file down the inside of the RTR coach until placing the window material behind it produces the right pre-flushglaze effect .  I see why SE Flushglaze went the way they did, but it leaves a kind of bulbous effect, regardless of whether you set them back or press them in fully.

 

In other words, if the thickness of the plastic was less, then the standard RTR method would be OK.  The new Hornby Colletts are fine in this respect, IMO..

 

 

SHAWPLAN 2 Upper Dunstead Road, Langley Mill, Nottingham NG16 4GR http://www. shawplan.com 01773 718648

 

If you are still a member of the Scalefour Society then input SHAWPLAN into the search box!

 

Mike Spence

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Shawplan Lazerglase

 

I don't know this supplier and I'm not getting on very well with the website.  I'm looking for illustrations.

 

It seems to me that if one is dissatisfied with RTR glazing, this has more to do with the thickness of the plastic body than anything else.  In other words, if your prototype was not 'flush glazed' what you really would like to do is file down the inside of the RTR coach until placing the window material behind it produces the right pre-flushglaze effect .  I see why SE Flushglaze went the way they did, but it leaves a kind of bulbous effect, regardless of whether you set them back or press them in fully.

 

In other words, if the thickness of the plastic was less, then the standard RTR method would be OK.  The new Hornby Colletts are fine in this respect, IMO..

 

I totally agree with your last comment about the new Hornby 57' (and also other recent coaches, such as Hawksworths, porthole stock,etc). I just wish that Shawplan would bring out glazing for older coaching stock: Bachmann Colletts, GWR railcar, etc. I am sure there would be a big market for these retrofit exercises.

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From Squires catalogue.

 

CLEAR PETG SHEET a range of "crystal" clear PETG sheets which is superior in clarity to Styrolux and PVC with a "crystal" clear appearance. Suitable for a range of modelling applications including windows and canopies etc. Sheet size 228 x 330mm. CODE TYPE PRICE 916-420 

 

Clear PETG Sheet .020" (0.50mm)...................... £1.89 916-440 Clear PETG Sheet .040" (1.00mm)...................... £1.99 916-460 Clear PETG Sheet .060" (1.50mm)...................... £2.99 916-480 Clear PETG Sheet .080" (2.00mm)...................... £3.29

 

The stuff is called PETG. It isn't like clear thick styrene as it's softer in texture but comes with protective sheets on both sides which keeps it pristine. Much careful work is needed but a convincing result should be possible using a force fit unlike the awful SEF stuff with its 'spectacle lens' effect.

 

I haven't yet tried it on a particular model apart a little experimentation but feel confident that it should prove satisfactory. I have a reasonable supply of the various thicknesses so if anybody on this thread would like a small piece to try out send me a PM.

Edited by Re6/6

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Another potentially useful material for glazing coaches with thick sides is broken CD cases.  They crack so easily and it seems a shame to throw them away once replaced.

 

Chris

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I probably should have clicked 'informative' as well Chris. ;)  One can only tick one choice.  

 

I have quite a collection of flexible packaging candidate items.    Collar inserts of new shirts for instance.  It's how 'not-scratched' they are that is most important, I think. 

Edited by HowardGWR

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Please note my addended post above.  I think I understood a joke was made when it wasn't.  Anyway, I hope my suggestion is also interesting.  I save all the plastic and other throwaway stuff in the hope that it could be used but to date all I seem to have is a pile of tins and biros, etc.  :-)

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It is also worth saving the packaging in which Christmas cards are sold in bulk, for the material appears to be acetate and would fit nicely behind an etched brass side or into a moulded rebate such as that on the Parkside Beetle.  All you have to do then is find your stash when you need it.

 

Howard, don't worry about finding  joke where none was intended.  These things happen.

 

Chris 

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On 11/11/2012 at 17:34, chrisf said:

The first repaints from GWR livery would have been into blood and custard. This was the practice until Swindon received a missive from On High politely telling them that auto trailers were not main line coaches and should not be dressed like them. The memo is reproduced in one of John Lewis's books.and was issued in, I think, 1952. Repaints after that were in plain crimson until 1956 when unlined maroon was introduced. From mid 1959 onwards they received lined maroon. Some trailers retained chocolate and cream until they were withdrawn - one of R C Riley's early colour slides clearly shows such a trailer in the formation of a Saltash - Plymouth auto as late as 1955.

 

W193W [A30] was used on a railtour in South Wales in July 1957 and was still in blood and custard, if that's any help.

 

Chris

 

Sorry for resurrecting and old thread - but Chris, you dont happen to have any idea what branding or number the Chocolate & Cream liveried autocoach was in that 1955 photo do you?  I am guessing it would probably have been 'GWR' rather than the shirt button or 'Great Western'?

 

Rich

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Rich, I have no idea, I'm aftaid.   When I get a minute I wil see if a magnifying glass will help me answer your question but I'm quite busy at the moment.

 

Chris

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The very first repaints under BR, between 1/1/48 and 31/5/48, would have been in 1945 type chocolate and cream but with BR sans serif lettering, numbers with a W prefix to them.  Crimson/Cream from 1/6/48 until the directive of 1952, apparently the result of Mr Riddles seeing a blood'n'custard trailer at Paddington and wanting to know why such a lowly vehicle was carrying his best main line express livery.  The 1/6/48 instruction clearly stated that non-gangwayed and NPCCS stock was to be painted plain crimson.  Plain crimson was used for trailers after that until 1956 when plain maroon replaced it as chrisf says.  W suffixes to the numbers appeared after the introduction of mk1 coaches in 1950 to avoid number duplication and indicate the region responsible for maintenance (i.e where the works drawings were held), even on new built A38 and renumbered 1953 built A44s.

 

The Lewis books refer to plain crimson and crimson/cream liveries as maroon or maroon/cream, which is misleading and confusing.

On 11/11/2012 at 19:11, 6959 said:

 

Thanks for the info. I had the red and cream, plain crimson, a** about face so need to restructure my running list of what coach to run with a particular engine. Also explains why Airfix and Hornby plain crimson B-Sets have a 'W' suffix to their running number.

 

Once painted, a coach was not repainted until the next full overhaul, which might be some years later.  So a 1955 photo showing a trailer in chocolate and cream could well show a coach in 1945 G W R livery or in very early BR livery, and one would need to see clearly what style of lettering and numbering was used to be sure; chrisf and his magnifying glass will no doubt answer this.  Some coaches would have 'skipped' a livery altogether, especially the short lived ones like 1945-7 or 1956-9 unlined maroon.

 

As a very sweeping generalisation, if a panelled or matchboarded trailer was painted in a BR livery, it was it's last repaint and AFAIK none made it into unlined maroon.  Some panelled trailers did remain in service after 1956, though.

Edited by The Johnster

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1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

Some panelled trailers did remain in service after 1956, though.

There were some around Stourbridge, Dudley and Birmingham Snow Hill until at least the autumn of 1957. I know of W76W in blood and custard and W44W in  plain crimson.

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On 19/03/2017 at 20:33, chrisf said:

Another potentially useful material for glazing coaches with thick sides is broken CD cases.  They crack so easily and it seems a shame to throw them away once replaced.

 

Chris

 

Our local Charity shop has them at 10p each and you get a free CD with it. (It's often modern pseudo-music*, but there's always the bin**....)

 

* The sort that you can understand why they gave it away, but not why they bought it in the first place.

**  There's a limit to the number of bird scarers (do they actually work?), coasters, etc. one needs!

 

At least one GWR diesel railcar set survived in pre-1942 GWR livery to around 1954 (personal memory - Bristol area). It then received crimson and cream, but it was gangwayed stock!

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I wonder why it is that given the Crimson and Cream colour is incorrect for branch line usage and given that it's documented that the WR got it wrong when they painted them in Crimson and Cream and had to change them to all over crimson, that the big 4 RTR makers Hornby, Bachmann, Dapol, Graham Farish all also produced their Autocoaches in the incorrect colours. 

 

I know they were in it for a good 4 years but it's still incorrect for branch line use, I don't even think they even produced them in all over crimson, skipping to Maroon.

 

Just wondering 

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19 minutes ago, Paul80 said:

I wonder why it is that given the Crimson and Cream colour is incorrect for branch line usage and given that it's documented that the WR got it wrong when they painted them in Crimson and Cream and had to change them to all over crimson, that the big 4 RTR makers Hornby, Bachmann, Dapol, Graham Farish all also produced their Autocoaches in the incorrect colours. 

 

I know they were in it for a good 4 years but it's still incorrect for branch line use, I don't even think they even produced them in all over crimson, skipping to Maroon.

 

Just wondering 

 

'Cos 'pretty' sells - overall crimson is seen as less attractive than crimson and cream - despite history.

 

Moreover, the ones painted crimson and cream would have remain so until they were next due for repainting.

 

I'm pretty sure that some overall crimson versions of the Airfix / Hornby autocoach have been produced - though I may be wrong.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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44 minutes ago, Paul80 said:

I wonder why it is that given the Crimson and Cream colour is incorrect for branch line usage and given that it's documented that the WR got it wrong when they painted them in Crimson and Cream and had to change them to all over crimson, that the big 4 RTR makers Hornby, Bachmann, Dapol, Graham Farish all also produced their Autocoaches in the incorrect colours. 

 

I know they were in it for a good 4 years but it's still incorrect for branch line use, I don't even think they even produced them in all over crimson, skipping to Maroon.

 

Just wondering 

There was at least one crimson and cream auto on the Merthyr-Pontsticill run in its final year,  late 1960.

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11 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

 

* The sort that you can understand why they gave it away, but not why they bought it in the first place.

Perhaps they bought it for the case as well?

 

There is a musician somewhere living off royalties entirely made from the same cd being resold in new cases...

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