BR(W) autocoach liveries.

[The Johnster]

On 20/11/2019 at 09:09, Paul80 said:

I wonder why it is that given the Crimson and Cream colour is incorrect for branch line usage and given that it's documented that the WR got it wrong when they painted them in Crimson and Cream and had to change them to all over crimson, that the big 4 RTR makers Hornby, Bachmann, Dapol, Graham Farish all also produced their Autocoaches in the incorrect colours. 

 

I know they were in it for a good 4 years but it's still incorrect for branch line use, I don't even think they even produced them in all over crimson, skipping to Maroon.

 

Just wondering 

It's not incorrect, except in that the WR applied it incorrectly, and is correct for any auto trailer painted between 1/6/48 and whatever date the instruction to cease doing it was in 1952 as a result of Riddles' objection.  So a trailer painted in 1952 just before Riddles was offended at Paddington might easily last in service in that livery until the very late 50s.  So, ideally depending on dated and verified photographic evidence, any layout whose period is between June 1948 and 1959 can have a trailer in this livery.  The WR didn't have to repaint them immediately to comply with the 1952 'Riddles order', and they were left in the 'incorrect' crimson and cream livery until their next scheduled overhaul, or withdrawal.  Some would certainly have been scrapped in this livery, and in 1952 there were a few trailers still around in GW or very early BR choc/cream; of these, only the older or newest types would not have been eventually repainted in plain crimson (AFAIK no matchboarded trailers were painted in any 'post 1952' livery.

 

Between the 1952 'Riddles order' and 1956, any trailer that was repainted at overhaul was repainted in plain crimson livery, the correct livery BR had instructed them to be painted in in June 1948.  Many of these also retained their livery until scrapping, and the first new builds that had the plain crimson livery were the A40 Hawkworth trailers in 1952, including 'Thrush' and 'Chaffinch', and the 1953 A43/A44 rebuilds of Collett compartment stock for the South Wales 'regular interval' timetable.  On my layout, A31 W 207 W and A30 W 194 W are both correctly painted in plain crimson livery; 207 was scrapped in it in 1958, 2 years after the introduction of maroon.  W 189 W is also correctly finished in crimson and cream, and I am in the process of 'working up' another K's kit A31, W 209, in early 1948 BR choc/cream as a 1950 photograph of it at Newport shows it in this livery, which it likely carried until withdrawal in 1955.

 

Similarly, any coach overhauled after 1956 was painted in plain maroon livery, darker than the crimson, and AFAIK this was only ever done to all steel trailers; A27/8/30, A38/40, A33/4 and A43/4.  Few panelled or matchboarded trailers lasted after 1956, and those that did would have been scrapped in whatever livery they carried when they were withdrawn, crimson/cream or plain crimson.  

 

After 1959, repainted trailers began to receive lined maroon livery, in common with all non-gangwayed stock and matching the 1956 livery for gangwayed stock.  The lining was carried around the ends, the cantrail line following the roof profile.  AFAIK no panelled or matchboarded trailers lasted long enough to be given this livery.

 

For the A38 trailers, built before the 1952 instruction. it is probable that some 'missed out' the plain crimson livery altogether, going straight from crimson/cream to maroon and possibly even lined maroon.  For similar reasons, some of the A40 trailers must have gone directly from plain crimson to lined maroon.  I mention these because of the RTR Bachmann model.  The A43/A44 trailers were also unlikely to have carried plain maroon livery, going from crimson to lined maroon.

[bécasse]

7 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Between the 1952 'Riddles order' and 1956, any trailer that was repainted at overhaul was repainted in plain crimson livery, the correct livery BR had instructed them to be painted in in June 1948.

 

Actually the BR (strictly Railway Executive) instruction of June 1948 would have had the auto trailers painted in lined crimson like other non-corridor stock. The waist-only lining didn't sit happily on a lot of the (often panelled) stock to which it was applied and was soon dropped from the livery, so that by the time of Riddles' instruction unlined crimson was indeed the rule. In respect of the auto trailers, this is of course hypothetical since the WR bent the rules and applied the main-line stock livery.

[cctransuk]

2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

...... including 'Thrush' and 'Chaffinch' .....

 

I know of WREN and THRUSH - which number was named CHAFFINCH?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[David Bigcheeseplant]

2 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

I know of WREN and THRUSH - which number was named CHAFFINCH?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

THRUSH & WREN are the only named examples CHAFFINCH is a preservation thing although there is a list of names that were proposed but never applied but it does not give which numbers these would have applied to.

[cctransuk]

2 minutes ago, David Bigcheeseplant said:

THRUSH & WREN are the only named examples CHAFFINCH is a preservation thing although there is a list of names that were proposed but never applied but it does not give which numbers these would have applied to.

 

 

I assume, therefore, that The Johnster's reference to CHAFFINCH is a typo for WREN?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[The Johnster]

It would be kind to call it a typo; it's a full on mistake.  I'm getting confused in my dotage, and people should read what I meant. not what I wrote...

[TheSignalEngineer]

9 hours ago, The Johnster said:

.............people should read what I meant. not what I wrote...

You could carve out a successful career in politics 

[The Johnster]

No I couldn't; my parents were both married.  To each other...

[DCB]

I imagine the reaction to a coach named "Blue Tit" might have mitigated against the idea of using bird names.     Even "Thrush" was unfortunate.

 

 

[Il Grifone]

On 22/11/2019 at 20:29, DavidCBroad said:

I imagine the reaction to a coach named "Blue Tit" might have mitigated against the idea of using bird names.     Even "Thrush" was unfortunate.

 

 

 

To the pure, all things are pure.... 

Edited December 26, 2019 by Il Grifone