Early and Late BR wagon liveries

[Guest Belgian]

Can anyone give me chapter and verse as to when the BR wagon liveries (steam era) changed from what Bachmann call 'early' and 'late' liveries. There is one site on the internet (I don't know its origins!, but it is called 'Goods and not so goods' and is written in the first person by an anonymous author)) which says it was 1957, but that seems a little early to me. Furthermore, did the white paint scheme for containers and insulated vans change to pale blue at the same time?

 

There was also a 'door-to-door' logo (an early arrow style) whose date of commencement eludes me.

 

Any definitive information?

 

JE

[Fat Controller]

There was a definite change in 1964, when the wagon data carried on the left-hand end of the side was enclosed in a box, and the wagon type was painted on (previously, vehicles like 16t minerals and 12t ventilated vans only carried their capacity and wagon number here). However, wagons were mostly repainted only at major shops, so that wagons with 'unboxed' lettering survived into the TOPS era, a decade later- indeed, even with the advent oof TOPS codes, these were sometimes simply painted above the capacity, without any sort of box.

There may have been an earlier change for the liveries of insulated vans, meat vans and all sorts of containers, but even then, the change happened over a long period of time.

[Il Grifone]

The 1957 date refers to the changes in coaching stock livery and the the later heraldic emblem on locomotives (ferret and dartboard).

 

The change in wagon livery was more or less contemporary with the appearance of blue livery on everything else (steam excepted apart from the VoR). The bauxite became brown and the grey lost its bluish tint, together with the 'boxed' lettering.

 

The ice blue livery replaced white for insulated vans and containers around 1960. The 'door to door arrow appeared around the same time.

EDIT I've found a date of 1963 on the internet. There's a contemporary 'model' here http://www.Hornby-railway-trains.co.uk/Rolling_Stock/Trucks_Wagons/R14_Fish_Van_Insulfish_N6301/R14_Fish_Van_Insulfish_N6301.htm

 

As stated, the changes were gradual.

[craigwelsh]

I wouldn't rely too closely on the Bachmann designations. This for example is listed as 'late' but is the pre-boxed original sort of wagon coding http://www.ehattons.com/32861/Bachmann_UK_38_326_Pack_of_4_13_Ton_High_Sided_Steel_Open_Wagon_Chain_Pockets_BR_Late_Bauxite/StockDetail.aspx

 

The main difference Bachmann use on fitted stock tends to be the paint shade - a reddier bauxite on 'early' and more of a brown on the 'late'.

 

Its generally worth just knowing the info FC has given above and judging the Bachmann liveries on a case by case basis.

[Guest Belgian]

Thank you all for the information, much appreciated.

 

I understand that the changes were gradual, but perhaps I didn't make my own interest in this too clear. My era of interest is around 1957 and I wanted to know whether I could use 'late' stock at that time: obviously not, which is what I thought. The 'Goods and not so goods' website had said that the changes took place in 1957 and I was pretty sure it was wrong. It shows the danger of believing what one can find on 'tinternet and how one should always attempt to get at least two or more sources that concur.

 

JE

[hmrspaul]

The main changes were prior to the blue corporate image, but only just. The ice blue, box lettering and 3-D box on containers were introduced in 1963. The corporate image followed in 1965 and included the mistake of requiring all wagons to be freight stock brown - so there are unfitted wagons in 'bauxite'. This only appears to have lasted a couple of years before reversion to separating the non fitted wagons in grey (note fitted in railway terms doesn't mean having a continous brake, only in having either a through vacuum pipe or having automatic brake - and all of this at the time when the railway was also deciding that air brake would be the standard for the future.

 

We have discussed liveries of this period many times, with the departmental stock being more complex.

 

Also repainting of wagons was slow, it did happen - although it was reduced from 5 to 7 year intervals in the late 1950s and seems to have been ignored much of the time anyway. BUT containers do seem to have been repainted more often, so the 3-D box was soon common. http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/acontainer/e3272d9ed

 

Paul Bartlett

[Fat Controller]

Presumably the more-frequent repainting of containers was because these would be seen on the public highway, where a tatty one would not look good alongside the smart, corporate-liveried, lorries of the competition.