Wright writes.....

[St Enodoc]

This thread must be catching - I was in WHS today and noticed that the latest Steam Days has an article about ECML steam in Nottinghamshire and Lincolnshire in Colour (has anyone else posted about this? If so, apologies for not checking).

 

I looked through the pictures hoping for one of LB, but sadly none and I felt quite let down. However, pictures of High Dyke and other places - took me back to the days of the Roy Jackson layout!

 

Happy New Year to one and all, and especially Tony for the inspirational work you do.

 

Phil

I think High Dyke was the first main line layout I saw at exhibitions that didn't have a station on it.

[davidw]

Thanks John,

 

Of course you're right about GREAT NORTHERN's and SIR FREDERICK BANBURY's original GNR tenders. They were introduced just before the Grouping. You're also right about Bachmann/Locomotion's C1 being available before the Heljan product. As far as I'm aware, the tender to be supplied with 251 (as representing its state in preservation) is the smaller-capacity, equally-spaced wheelbase one - the one she received after being withdrawn. The later tenders had greater capacity and an unequal wheelbase, and I believe Bachmann is to produce that sort as well for the C1s in the LNER period and (possibly?) BR. When I was chatting to the team over at Barwell, the notion of a model of 62822 was discussed. This was the last C1 in service and ran on a special to Doncaster just prior to withdrawal (26th November, 1950). The problem is, for the last weeks of her life and for the run, she towed a K2 tender, lined-out with 'British Railways' in full. Though this was a GNR type 'B' tender, there were subtle differences and so it's not quite the same as either of the tenders produced by Bachmann (or Heljan). My advice was to do it anyway and ignore the bleaters!

 

Dsc_0356.jpg

 

DSC_0363.JPG

 

Dsc_0366.jpg

 

The holiday period has seen more scenic work undertaken on Little Bytham. Complementing (I hope) the previous splendid work of Gilbert Barnatt, Rob Davey and Richard Wilson, I've been finishing off the Down platform's surface, areas of the goods yard and loading dock, and starting on the stationmaster's garden. Ian Wilson has been carving Styrofoam to blend in the M&GNR curve off scene, to the far right in the first picture. It really is coming together now, largely because of the input of others, and I'm particularly pleased with the juxtaposition of the various textures/tones/colours.

 

As I say, big space, little station, but it only 'works' because of that space.

 

In case I don't post tomorrow, all the best to everyone for the New Year.

Happy new year to you too Tony!

[Taz]

Happy New year Tony.

Could you explain how the extra fiddle yard roads (kick back sidings?) visible in the overview pictures work from an operational point of view?

 

Thanks

[Clive Mortimore]

Thanks John,

 

Of course you're right about GREAT NORTHERN's and SIR FREDERICK BANBURY's original GNR tenders. They were introduced just before the Grouping. You're also right about Bachmann/Locomotion's C1 being available before the Heljan product. As far as I'm aware, the tender to be supplied with 251 (as representing its state in preservation) is the smaller-capacity, equally-spaced wheelbase one - the one she received after being withdrawn. The later tenders had greater capacity and an unequal wheelbase, and I believe Bachmann is to produce that sort as well for the C1s in the LNER period and (possibly?) BR. When I was chatting to the team over at Barwell, the notion of a model of 62822 was discussed. This was the last C1 in service and ran on a special to Doncaster just prior to withdrawal (26th November, 1950). The problem is, for the last weeks of her life and for the run, she towed a K2 tender, lined-out with 'British Railways' in full. Though this was a GNR type 'B' tender, there were subtle differences and so it's not quite the same as either of the tenders produced by Bachmann (or Heljan). My advice was to do it anyway and ignore the bleaters!

 

Edited

 

In case I don't post tomorrow, all the best to everyone for the New Year. 

Hi Tony

 

When I was doing my research into the snowploughs I posted the other day I came to the conclusion that there was so many variations of GNR B Type tenders that if two were the same it was by mistake.  

 

Happy new year.  

[peach james]

Tony,

In post 3311 , the photo of the O2/3 side view , the valve gear/radius link bracket and reversing rod look too close together . The rev. rod would'nt be able to swing upwards without fouling the rad. link ,  it looks to me . I guess the bracket and integral slidebars could move forward a bit , but not much as the crosshead would then hit the rear end of the slidebars . What do you think ?

I'm sure we're all very grateful to you ,and of course many others others,  for the input on this project , and you are too modest I'm sure . After all you must have enlightened the necessary people of the long travel valve / high footplate variant which other previous kits did'nt incorporate . (after the "Grantham fireman's advice ! )

Happy new year to you , and all on this very popular thread . Keep it going Tony , it is just the time and area of my cherished few years on the footplate .

 

Regards , Roy.

 

DSC_0117 by Peach James, on Flickr

 

Proving that it happens in more than just OO models, that somewhere there is a mistake...

 

The valve gear on that engine (it's a P5a, nominally, or Caribou to those of you who read Model Engineer) has had a lot of adjustments to make it run better.  Dad started off with the bits that someone else had made, and adapted them to make it work.  (it was no-where near as bad as https://flic.kr/p/ce3nw3 , which at that time was suffering through having piston valves that were something like .125 short, on 2.500 or so...).  So, the Caribou had bits heated & stretched on the bed of the lathe.  I wasn't there for it, but apparently one of the other model makers who pesters dad visited, while he was busy heating up various and sundry bits to a nice bright cherry & "pulling" them between the chuck and cross slide on the lathe.  First time for everything, I think...Dad's not a blacksmith (I know one now...), but that's how they were adjusted in full size too.  (either lengthened or shortened by blacksmiths)

 

Both of those are 3/4"-ft (or 1/16th) but are live steam primarily, not models.  (I've seen model making in those sizes, and our approach isn't it.  If you want to see model making in 1"/ft, look no further than http://www.physics.upenn.edu/shop/edst1.html  for Ed Wooding's astounding PRR T1, with Franklin RC valve gear.  (Ed died several years ago, I met him in Montreal in 2000)

[CUTLER2579]

Tony,

I would just like to say that the new scenery has improved an already superb layout by raising it to another level.I can almost see my self cycling along Station Road in 1959 time.

A Happy New Year to You and Mo in particular and everybody else on RMweb..

Regards,Derek.

[CUTLER2579]

Quote ;-  {St Enodoc said :- I think High Dyke was the first main line layout I saw at exhibitions that didn't have a station on it.}

 

If the Retford Three had modelled a Station such as Great Ponton it would have probably had a Cat,

 

Therefore end of Red Rat and that would have been sacrilege. The three might have started to take themselves seriously.

 

 

This will only make sense to those of my generation I suspect.

 

Regards Derek.

[St Enodoc]

Quote ;-  {St Enodoc said :- I think High Dyke was the first main line layout I saw at exhibitions that didn't have a station on it.}

 

If the Retford Three had modelled a Station such as Great Ponton it would have probably had a Cat,

 

Therefore end of Red Rat and that would have been sacrilege. The three might have started to take themselves seriously.

 

 

This will only make sense to those of my generation I suspect.

 

Regards Derek.

Makes perfect sense Derek, and takes me back about 30 years! Any photos of the rat around anyone?

[Tony Wright]

Happy New year Tony.

Could you explain how the extra fiddle yard roads (kick back sidings?) visible in the overview pictures work from an operational point of view?

 

Thanks

Thanks Brian,

 

The principle of the kick-back sidings is quite simple. How they were done, using a Brilliant Baseboards' pack, was explained in BRM about four years ago. 

 

The need for them came about because of two principal reasons. For one, 'even' a 20-road fiddle yard for the main line was insufficient to accommodate all my trains, despite the fact that four of those roads hold two trains each. The second (linked to the first) was that I was not prepared to compromise on too-tight radii entering/exiting the yard. Thus, there are all (with one exception) Peco large-radius points, every one leading off a 'straight' bit of track, or a transitional curve. I learned the efficacy of this from Bob Paddison, a one-time actual railway engineer, who's building a model of Whitchurch (Salop). Where folk attempt to get too much in, the running is always compromised - derailments, trains struggling and so forth; either that or vital bits are missing off locos - front steps, cylinder drain pipes, etc. Because I also insisted that the main line goes on/offstage on the straight so to speak (as it should), that fact also meant a 'shortening' of any potential fiddle yard roads, where they could have started on the end curves. This latter point was vital because I was never entirely happy with the way Stoke Summit had a right-angle bend at one end to get on/offstage. 

 

So, how to accommodate more trains? Friend Rob Davey and I built the Brilliant Baseboards' unit, splitting it in half to give twice the length. This was then erected, free-standing to the west of the scenic section. A small piece of 9mm ply infill joined them to the scenic-side baseboards. A Peco large-radius right-hand point was then inserted into the Down slow offstage, and from that a further three more LR points led off to give four dead-end sidings capable of holding a loco and 45 wagons/brake van (the longest), thence to a loco and 11 coaches, loco and nine coaches or loco and 26 wagons/brake van (the shortest). Actually, apart from the 45 wagons' siding, the others could accommodate quite a bit more, but there is no need. Trains occupying the sidings are a Kings Cross-Leeds set, the Cliffe-Uddingston cement block train, a Kings Cross-Edinburgh set and a set of mineral empties. So, do I get four more trains? Actually, no, because one road in the fiddle yard has to be empty to allow these trains access/passage (as is the case with the Up side, which has five more kick-back sidings). So, I 'lose' two through roads, but gain nine more trains - a good deal. 

 

How do they work? When one of the trains mentioned is due to run (the sequence is being finalised), the fiddle yard operator selects the road and either instructs the Down driver to set his Down slow controller into reverse or activates his own 'slave' controller. The appropriate section is then energised (simple on/off switch) and the loco propels its train in reverse onto the Down slow and into the vacant road in the fiddle yard, driven by either the Down driver or the fiddle yard operator, as convenient. In the case of the first three trains, these all run through the scenic section on the Down fast, and the appropriate crossovers at both ends are set. So, with both slow and fast roads set to the same controller, off the train goes - Leeds, Uddingston or Edinburgh - through the scenic section and back through the fiddle yard into its appropriate siding, driven by the Down driver. In the case of the empty minerals, that one just runs slow road. All of this is happily accomplished without derailments, backwards or forwards; the only problems are caused by the faculties-fading-fast operator - me! Because of the last-mentioned, I installed a simple push-button switch to control the current between the Down slow and the extra sidings - too many following trains running into the backs of those in the sidings because I hadn't re-set the key point!

 

It all works very well (operator excepted), as I hope visitors will testify, and I've got those extra trains. I did consider extending the run all the way to the west of the scenic section and rejoining the Down slow beneath the MR/M&GNR bit, thus not needing to reverse - each train going round twice so to speak - but the north end is too cramped.

 

I hope this helps - if not I'll take some pictures. 

[micklner]

Track plan would be good, as well as photos. Happy new Year to all on here !!

[Taz]

Thanks Tony.

It had been puzzling me as I hadn't considered the simple expedient of reversing to get the trains out of the kick back sidings.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Taz

[coachmann]

The kick-back sidings are a damn good idea Tony, not that I can advantage from the idea now. 

[Metr0Land]

 

I hope this helps - if not I'll take some pictures. 

 

 

Pictures would help please, my head's spinning, but thanks for trying to explain in lengthy text.

[Woodcock29]

Hi Tony

 

This is my first post on RMweb and hope it comes out in the correct place, as it relates to a post of yours a few weeks ago when you showed the Hornby D49 that you were doing up with a GC tender attached.  Firstly though let me say I have been an admirer of your work for a long time and one day hope I might be able to meet you and see LB in the flesh on my next visit to the UK in a year or two. I have been thoroughly enjoying reading through a lot of the pages of your blog on RM web but I have yet to read many of the earlier ones. I am a devoted LNER/ER modeller with some significant experience behind me and am an acquaintance of Graeme King.

 

My comment on the D49 is that it is a pity that you were provided with the wrong type of GC tender for this project.  The one in the photo, as attached to the Bachmann D11, is the GC self trimming 4000 gallon tenders, fitted initially to several D11s, then transferred to B3s (some later returned to D11s) with subsequent tenders being built to run with B7s.  The tenders transferred to D49s were GC standard 4000 gallon tenders, from I believe scrapped Q4s and maybe other locos. These were quite different to the self trimming type. The self trimming type had a wider body and consequently reduced flare around the top, plus a different layout at the front with a high centrally mounted tool box.  The GC standard 4000 galloon tenders fitted to D49s also didn't have water pickup at the time of the transfer. The tender with the preserved Morayshire is of this type.

 

A tender from a Bachmann O4 would have been perfect for the project. 

 

I look forward to reading more of Wright Writes in the future.

 

Regards and Happy New Year

 

Woodcock29

(Andrew Emmett, Adelaide, South Australia) - why Woodcock29 you may ask - well Woodcock was the only A4 I travelled behind in regular service as a child prior to our departure to Australia in 1964.  

[HerbertHopkins]

 

 

The principle of the kick-back sidings is quite simple. How they were done, using a Brilliant Baseboards' pack, was explained in BRM about four years ago. 

 

 

 

 

Believe it or not Tony, it was actually almost five years ago.

 

As I recall, we assembled those baseboards on a bitterly cold day in early February. Despite the fact that I had on a thermal vest, two sweatshirts, a woolly hat and a pair of tatty but very warm trainers, I was absolutely freezing! If you still have that article and look at the 'shows you how' sequence of photos you will notice that,as work progressed, my hands became bluer and bluer. Happy days!

 

Best wishes for 2015 to Mo and yourself.

 

Regards

 

Rob

[Tony Wright]

Hi Tony

 

This is my first post on RMweb and hope it comes out in the correct place, as it relates to a post of yours a few weeks ago when you showed the Hornby D49 that you were doing up with a GC tender attached.  Firstly though let me say I have been an admirer of your work for a long time and one day hope I might be able to meet you and see LB in the flesh on my next visit to the UK in a year or two. I have been thoroughly enjoying reading through a lot of the pages of your blog on RM web but I have yet to read many of the earlier ones. I am a devoted LNER/ER modeller with some significant experience behind me and am an acquaintance of Graeme King.

 

My comment on the D49 is that it is a pity that you were provided with the wrong type of GC tender for this project.  The one in the photo, as attached to the Bachmann D11, is the GC self trimming 4000 gallon tenders, fitted initially to several D11s, then transferred to B3s (some later returned to D11s) with subsequent tenders being built to run with B7s.  The tenders transferred to D49s were GC standard 4000 gallon tenders, from I believe scrapped Q4s and maybe other locos. These were quite different to the self trimming type. The self trimming type had a wider body and consequently reduced flare around the top, plus a different layout at the front with a high centrally mounted tool box.  The GC standard 4000 galloon tenders fitted to D49s also didn't have water pickup at the time of the transfer. The tender with the preserved Morayshire is of this type.

 

A tender from a Bachmann O4 would have been perfect for the project. 

 

I look forward to reading more of Wright Writes in the future.

 

Regards and Happy New Year

 

Woodcock29

(Andrew Emmett, Adelaide, South Australia) - why Woodcock29 you may ask - well Woodcock was the only A4 I travelled behind in regular service as a child prior to our departure to Australia in 1964.  

Thanks Andrew,

 

I was aware of the 'minefield' with regard to the ex-GC tenders which eventually ran behind D49s. Are you sure that every ex-GC tender behind D49s was not the self-trimming sort? I admit my eyes are getting older, but several pictures of them appear to show quite a shallow flare, suggesting a self-trimming type? It's also not quite right to say that the pick-up gear was removed on transfer. Darlington removed it as soon as was practicable but at least one picture exists of a D49 with a GC tender still retaining it. Then there's the thorny issue of plated coal rails or the ten ex-GC tenders with rebuilt tanks. 

 

I was commissioned by BRM to undertake this 'conversion'. A Hornby Railroad D49 was acquired quite cheaply off ebay, and a D11 tender from Bachmann. It might have been wiser of me to stipulate an O4 tender (a Hornby O1 one wasn't available) but it was a case of what was there. Normally, it's not the kind of thing I'd touch because I'm much happier working in metal. But, and I'm 100% behind the Editor here, BRM is keen to show to readers the virtue of actually having a go at doing something for themselves. Please don't think I'm making excuses, but the combination of parts is cheap, the conversion requires nothing in the way of specialist tools and it should be within the reach of the beginner/inexperienced, as long as they're prepared to have a go at doing things for themselves. If not, they'll just be in the category of collector or commissioner as far as I'm concerned. Thus, and if you think I'm being hypocritical here so be it, it's made as 'accurate' as the parts allow without taking it to the level of the 'expert' Thus, I've left the cylinders alone (they're far too small), the valve gear alone (it's very coarse), not altered the 'lean' of the return crank on one side, along with several omissions of minute detail. I did, however, replace the smokebox door to the smaller-diameter, more-bulbous GNR-type because that was so obvious. Less obvious than the flare to the tender top?

 

In my write up (which is being prepared), I'll mention any anomalies and, perhaps, suggest the O4 or O1 tender (it alters the conversion work very little, apart from removal of the pick-up gear). In a way, this discussion illustrates how the hobby has moved on considerably, at least as far as knowledge and expectation are concerned. I used several K's GC tenders as the providers for my scratch-building or converting nigh on 40 years ago, now - D11, D49, O1, O4/8, O4/6, etc, and was blissfully unaware of the minutiae of differences in the real things. I was ignorant, blissful in it and, fortunately, most of those pieces of antiquity have gone to those who are (even more?) ignorant. 

 

Oh, and please, Andrew, keep on adding your critical observations. 

 

Edited to include the last sentence.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Tony Wright

[HAL 'O THE WYND]

Hello everyone, Tony,

 

Briefly, as a beginner who already has a Railroad D49, this is exactly the sort of topic I need. To be honest, much of the detailed studies of advanced modelling are a little scary. I'm a beginner but not young. I admire the lifetimes experience and work on display but I'll never catch up; it is the structural and scenic work that I enjoy. But I'll certainly have a go at the more achievable conversion work covered by the likes of the D49.

 

Happy New Year Everyone,

 

Hal.

[Mallard60022]

Best wishes for 2015 to all on here. Thank you Tony for informative, supportive and very entertaining content. May we all have a happy and fruitful modelling year.

Sincerely Phil @ 36E

[Tony Wright]

Pictures would help please, my head's spinning, but thanks for trying to explain in lengthy text.

So, pictures included to explain how the kick-back sidings work.

 

Firstly, I must apologise for the quality of several of the following shots. Many required my squeezing into tight corners and the use of a wide-angle lens; the latter has produced far too much distortion in places. I realise that top-quality photography is not a pre-requisite for posting on threads, but as an ex-professional photographer I do try to maintain 'standards'. 

 

 

This is the entrance/exit to the extra sidings, off the Down slow. The vehicles to the right are in some of the Up kick-back sidings. 

 

 

For the purposes of the explanation, the Cliffe-Uddingston cement train has been chosen. Here, the train can be seen being propelled out of its siding. 

 

 

Leaving its siding empty. The Leeds train is to the left, then the Edinburgh, then the empties. The Leeds set still has to have the roof ribs removed from its Bachmann Mk.1s. I've taken them off the Edinburgh set - the difference is remarkable. 

 

 

The 9F heading the train (modified and further-weathered Bachmann) continues to reverse its train and is now clear of the entrance/exit point. Were it to run on the Down slow, it need reverse no further.

 

 

Still in reverse, it's just about to clear the cross-over from the Down slow to the Down fast. It needs to reverse another foot or so.

 

 

Having taken the cross-over, now in forwards, it's heading out to the scenic section on the Down fast. 

 

The remaining pictures will be in the next post.

[Tony Wright]

 

Just about to run under the cover to prevent viewers looking from the scenic section seeing the tight curve through the bridge at the south end. This feature was vital in the planning stage because trains visually going on/offstage at right angles spoils any illusion of reality to me.

 

 

 

And here's the train now on the scenic section. Its starting point is just visible behind Rob Davey's mind-numbing (to install) fencing. In the foreground can be seen more scenic work in progress.

 

 

Once through the scenic section, it must return to the slow roads and thus is taking the appropriate cross-over. The furthest left-hand point gives access to two further Up kick-back sidings, situated beneath the M&GNR. Ian Wilson's Styrofoam work from yesterday is evident. 

 

 

The train now takes the vacant Down through road in the fiddle yard (Road 19). The vacant Up road is No. 1, beyond the fish train. 

 

As an aside, on looking at this array in the main line fiddle yard, it's astonishing what 40 years' work can achieve (to me personally). If it's a carriage, the chances are I made/modified it, if it's a goods wagon, little chance and if it's a loco it's almost certainly my work as well. Of course, as I've said many times, much of what's on view is also the work of others (Rob Davy's beautifully-weathered DMU for instance) but it's always been vital in my modelling that I undertake a substantial amount of the work myself. 

 

 

And it travels now back towards its stationary home, this time continuing on the Down slow. 

 

As a further aside, I hope this view also shows how I've laid the entrance/exit to the fiddle yard, resisting the temptation of trying to cram too much in. All the points here are large-radius and none comes off a sharp curve. How else can one expect trouble-free operation, especially in reverse? 

 

 

Welcome home, as the cement train returns to its siding. This train only runs once in the sequence, so there is no need for a loco change. Were it necessary (as with the other three trains in these sidings), then the loco would be changed by the fiddle yard operator on reversing out. An A2/3 is often the motive power on the cement train. 

 

 

The kick-back sidings are controlled from the top right section of the control panel. 

 

 

And, the most simple on/off switches energise which roads need be.

 

I hope the above helps.

 

HAPPY NEW YEAR to one and all!

 

Edited to include this...............

 

Why must this bl***y computer decide where photographs should be placed?!!!!!!!!!!

 

They're all there, but one has appeared twice and the missing one appears as a thumbnail. Would a kind moderator please re-arrange them? That's way beyond my capabilities I'm afraid. 

Edited December 31, 2014 by Tony Wright

[coachmann]

Did I spot an ex GC A5 4-6-2T....? Methinks you got locos we ain't seen nuttin' of yet....

[Andrew P]

Great pics of the fiddle yard Tony, I failed to get any decent ones of the main yard and the other one over the back on my visit so thanks for all the info and shots.

 

Happy New Year to you and Mo and to all your FRIENDS who visited LB and contribute to this most informative of threads up until now, and in the future years, may it give you as much pleasure as it does the rest of us. 

 

Andy.

[Tony Wright]

Did I spot an ex GC A5 4-6-2T....? Methinks you got locos we ain't seen nuttin' of yet....

You did indeed, Larry. 

 

It was built by Tony Geary from a Craftsman kit. Tony built visually-magnificent 4mm locos but their performance was sometimes 'dodgy'. By that I mean the odd squeak and jerk. I bought this one off him when he switched to 7mm and dismantled the mechanism to get the performance I demand. It only needed a little bit of adjustment in places, but now it goes beautifully. I still need to lower the top lamp bracket onto the smokebox door. 

 

Grantham had at least one A5 on its allocation in the '50s and there's a picture of it between Corby Glen and Bytham by Philip Wells, so that's why I have one.

 

I built one years ago from the same source, but sold it because I wasn't sure I wanted one. Mine represented 69806, one I saw at Manchester London Road in 1957, so it wouldn't have been appropriate for LB anyway (just in the same way that my kit-built L1, 67781, isn't, though I still have that). At least a GC 4-6-2T is not on any RTR radar as far as I can tell. 

[coachmann]

Nearly midnight but I'm wacked. Wishing you a Happy New Year Tony as well as looking forward to your thread thru' 2015.

[BrushVeteran]

Happy New Year Tony

 

Thanks for all your input with the Tango project so far!