Porcy Mane Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 (edited) I never knew Claytons worked to Consett! How long did that experiment last? Two days I should think? In Sept 1963 two Scottish Claytons (Three actually but one never managed to get out of the shed so a substitute was summoned.) were trialed on the iron ore trains as part of a time & motion study. After the first runs it was realized they were inadequate. One went of to Wakefield for further "trials" and one remained working from Tyne Yard for a few more weeks when they were returned to Scotland. There is a well known photo of them on their journey home in a triple header on the ECML. Once the North East region got their own allocation, they became the regular locos on pick up and trip workings all over the NE and across to Carlisle. See this pic: http://southpelawjunction.co.uk/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/24andclaytons-@southpelaw1.jpg and here's another. Note there is an Ale (Ex insulated) van probably carrying empty barrels back to Park Royal in the rake. P Edited February 24, 2016 by Porcy Mane 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 If only things were that simple, however Harris records that a single 8' bolster bogie used for suburban stock was adopted for full brakes, they had 10" by 5" journals. A rather tedious trawl through the Doncaster drawling list produced by the NRM reveals that the only 8' bogie with 10" by 5" journal is the heavy type. A drawing dated 1928 exists in the archive for this type, so fairly close to Bills stated date of the adoption of new bogies for the big full brakes. Provisionally it looks like my original information stands. I have a ( or maybe part of) a bogie diagram book and have extracted these details which I've put into a PDF LNER Bogies.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class O Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 In Sept 1963 two Scottish Claytons (Three actually but one never managed to get out of the shed so a substitute was summoned.) were trialed on the iron ore trains as part of a time & motion study. After the first runs it was realized they were inadequate. One went of to Wakefield for further "trials" and one remained working from Tyne Yard for a few more weeks when they were returned to Scotland. There is a well known photo of them on their journey home in a triple header on the ECML. Once the North East region got their own allocation, they became the regular locos on pick up and trip workings all over the NE and across to Carlisle. See this pic: http://southpelawjunction.co.uk/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/24andclaytons-@southpelaw1.jpg and here's another. Note there is an Ale (Ex insulated) van probably carrying empty barrels back to Park Royal in the rake. One of these road/rail tankers was a regular at West Hartlepool delivering Guinness to Cameron's brewery ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headstock Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Hi Bill, this is what I got from the NRM list. There is also reference to a 8' light bogie with 12 tons on the pivot, and also an 8' bogie for converted stock Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted February 24, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 24, 2016 While the GE area surburban EMU's (AM2-AM8/302-308) were very rough riding at times and do seem to have had some type of Gresley looking bogies - I haven't a clue what they might have been, I have always understood that the actual 'Clacton' electrics, the AM9/309's ran on commonwealth bogies although I am not sure about the power bogies. Izzy These bogies were appalling under the AM4 (304) units when they first appeared on Liverpool-Crewe in the 1960s - especially in contrast to the LMS electric sets we were used to on Southport and Wirral lines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted February 24, 2016 Author Share Posted February 24, 2016 (edited) Tony, this should be with you shortly. Img_0309.jpg Phil It was indeed, many thanks. Rather better looking than those Claytons (fascinating and interesting though they are), and rather more successful! I wonder if I made a tender tank with ripples, would it be more realistic? Edited February 24, 2016 by Tony Wright 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted February 24, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 24, 2016 While the GE area surburban EMU's (AM2-AM8/302-308) were very rough riding at times and do seem to have had some type of Gresley looking bogies - I haven't a clue what they might have been, I have always understood that the actual 'Clacton' electrics, the AM9/309's ran on commonwealth bogies although I am not sure about the power bogies. Izzy The GER, ScR and LMR units had Gresley 8ft 6 ins double bolster bogies fitted with roller bearings on the trailer coaches. The motor cars had a BR design power bogie that was based on the Gresely principal of outside frame with inside springs. The AM7 having been built at Eastleigh had some SR design of bogie that made the Gresely fitted stock seem like luxury. Later the 307s were fitted with BR5 bogies. AM9s were fitted with Commonwealth bogies, the best riding of all Mk1 design stock especially when doing a ton. :locomotive: :locomotive: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grob1234 Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Fs 03.jpg It was indeed, many thanks. Rather better looking than those Claytons (fascinating and interesting though they are), and rather more successful! I wonder if I made a tender tank with ripples, would it be more realistic? How might you go about it? I have seen people carve plastic aeroplane fuselages to give a rippled effect... Perhaps this might translate into carving or shaping white metal? But a brass tender? I have no idea... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 One of these road/rail tankers was a regular at West Hartlepool delivering Guinness to Cameron's brewery ... Owen, do you mean the tanks were offloaded at Tyneside and then driven to the Lion brewery, or a rail wagon was tripped to West Hartlepool and then driven off? I wonder if I made a tender tank with ripples, would it be more realistic? Probably. I've tried to model it on the floor of a 16 ton steel mineral. Whether I was successful is not for me to decide. With apologies for the drift. P (thinking that I better start packing my stuff for Glasgow rather than sitting in front of a computer.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I managed to create a lifelike ripple effect along the top edges of my 4mm DJH Semi. The tender sides were preformed in the wrong place, so I straightened and reshaped them, introducing some ripples just where the occasional lump of coal would have bounced off. So that's how it is done! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Interesting that so many people report these "Gresley" bogies giving rough riding. When I was a lad, we often went from Cambridge to Liverpool Steet or Kings Cross for a day trainspotting in London. Coaches were BR Mk1, usually with BR1 bogies, but with the odd Commonwealth set that we looked out for. However the KGX "Cambridge Buffet Express" included a Gresley Buffet car, which we noted was better riding than the BR1 bogied Mk1 stock. Every September, there was an excursion from Cambridge to Blackpool for the Illuminations. I well remember one year it had a Gresley Buffet in the formation. We left Cambridge via the St.Ives loop to March, where the Bury/Ipswich (?) portion was added, then headed off via Spalding & Lincoln to Doncaster and beyond. Even on the St.Ives loop at slow speeds (we stopped every station) the BR1s were much rougher than the Gresleys - we ended up in the Buffet for the whole journey to Blackpool. Stewart 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Maybe you need the side sheets for a ProScale P2 tender to assist with the formation of ripples? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 24, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 24, 2016 Interesting that so many people report these "Gresley" bogies giving rough riding. When I was a lad, we often went from Cambridge to Liverpool Steet or Kings Cross for a day trainspotting in London. Coaches were BR Mk1, usually with BR1 bogies, but with the odd Commonwealth set that we looked out for. However the KGX "Cambridge Buffet Express" included a Gresley Buffet car, which we noted was better riding than the BR1 bogied Mk1 stock. Every September, there was an excursion from Cambridge to Blackpool for the Illuminations. I well remember one year it had a Gresley Buffet in the formation. We left Cambridge via the St.Ives loop to March, where the Bury/Ipswich (?) portion was added, then headed off via Spalding & Lincoln to Doncaster and beyond. Even on the St.Ives loop at slow speeds (we stopped every station) the BR1s were much rougher than the Gresleys - we ended up in the Buffet for the whole journey to Blackpool. Stewart The BR Mk1 bogie was reputedly very good when new and with all tolerances and settings at top notch - in fact it came out best by a long margin in some UIC comparative trials with bogies from most other European railways. But once the mileage began to build up and the wheel profile started to wear and various springing etc components started to age it tended to become very rough. Hence the use of a Gresley pattern bogie on various stock in a bid to avoid the deterioration problems of the BR Mk1, and of course the selective use of very expensive Commonwealth bogies to get a real improvement but at a considerable cost penalty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Maybe you need the side sheets for a ProScale P2 tender to assist with the formation of ripples? I must make an official complaint to my mate. He forgot to ripple the sides of this ProScale tender when he built it. >?) http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64295-wright-writes/page-359&do=findComment&comment=2208661 P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Diesels are just as bad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Diesels are just as bad. In all sorts of ways. As are electrics, and diving trailers that are full of concrete. P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted February 24, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 24, 2016 Diesels are just as bad. 1 kx .jpg Hi Mick I think that is an unpowered coach. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glo41f Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Oh the 309's! Possibly the best ever EMU's. Fast and comfortable and handsome when they were new with the big wrap around windows. I spent may hours on them up and down to L'Pool Street and always looked out for a set when returning home. I would love to model one but the complex front curves are very difficult though you can use a Mark one for the main body. It would suit a resin type casting. Any takers (in 7mm)? Martin Long Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted February 24, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 24, 2016 Oh the 309's! Possibly the best ever EMU's. Fast and comfortable and handsome when they were new with the big wrap around windows. I spent may hours on them up and down to L'Pool Street and always looked out for a set when returning home. I would love to model one but the complex front curves are very difficult though you can use a Mark one for the main body. It would suit a resin type casting. Any takers (in 7mm)? Martin Long Hi Martin Pete Harvey of PH Designs does a 3D printed 4mm cab end. How about contacting him, he is on this forum, asking if it can be scaled up to 7mm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Not quite visible in this shot but my Gibson Austin 7 has very thin brass sides on the tender and has a slight ripple in them. 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 (edited) Hi Mick I think that is an unpowered coach. Whatever !! I do not do Diesels !! , its still got numerous dents and ripples, as has the next Coach tooooooo cheers Edited February 24, 2016 by micklner Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium thegreenhowards Posted February 24, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 24, 2016 On the subject of car aerosols, can I warn people not to make the same mistake that I've just made on my Graeme King W1 conversion. I painted the resin part with Hycote car 'Brooklands Green' which worked well and turned out to be a good match for the Hornby BR Green. Then I touched in around the removed nameplate and some front bufferbeam damage on the donor with enamels. Again this seemed to work well. But then I tried to blend everything in with Hycote acrylic 'Clear Lacquer', and it has reacted with the enamels to give a horrible cracked finish. I tested the lacquer on an old rtr body shell, but not on enamels . Does anyone have a view on the best solution -. Could I rub back and touch up with enamels over the lacquer? Or is it a strip back and start again? Regards Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted February 24, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 24, 2016 Start again. You'll never be happy with it otherwise, and it'll bug you for evermore Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium wagonbasher Posted February 24, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 24, 2016 Whatever !! I do not do Diesels !! , its still got numerous dents and ripples, as has the next Coach tooooooo cheers Diesel, powere coach or the Scotsman, do you think the ripples and dents are evident because of the super shiny gloss paint. are the dents and imperfections if our favourite classics all hidden by Matt effect and dirt? Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted February 25, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 25, 2016 What the photos's of these operations doesn't show is the rag firmly wedged between the firebell gong and striker. In later years it was always blue Kleenex tissue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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