Wright writes.....

[micklner]

Bachmann secondhand Thompson Coaches fitted with Southern Pride Flying Scotsman P.V. sides costing under £20 for each, including changing to the latest small coupling type Gresley Bogies.

 

E bay is your friend for cheap Coaches and then add little bit of work/modelling. I await the arrival of the LNER Teak version of the latest £53 each versions, with interest.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 11, 2017 by micklner

[Woodcock29]

Hi Tony

 

Herewith is a Bachmann/Southern Pride Rest 1st that I built for my late father about 20 years ago if my memory serves me correctly. I had a go at improving the roof profile but sadly I never got around to modifying the underframe to suit a restaurant car. It now gets the occasional run on my layout in a set of Bachmann Mk1s on the odd occasion when I run a BR period train.

 

Andrew Emmett

 

[jrg1]

A set of jeweller's broaches are very handy for preparing holes in etched sheets-actually you only need one or two, but they are usually sold in sets.  A 1/8" reamer is useful for axle hole alignment and a smal taper reamer-say 2-4mm can be useful.

Also, if you are intending to build models, I suggest that you obtain a copy of data tables.  These books should be stocked at a tool supplier, and will show all drill sizes in Imperial, Metric, Letter and Number alongside a decimal chart.  By comparison, you will be able to buy cheap metric bits at the local hardware store, instead of expensive number and letter bits.  As well as that, they have tapping sizes and various engineering information-this is more suited to live steamers.  I am including an SWG chart which I find usel, especially when mix and matching.  Good Luck. 

[thegreenhowards]

 

 

Does anyone else have pictures of models of Thompson carriages, please?   

 

Tony,

 

This is a picture of my first and, so far, only complete brass coach kit. it is a Comet kit for a matchboard BG. I was quite pleased with it at the time, but I now think the colour is too 'orangy' (Vauxhall Carmine Red) and I now use Ford Rosso Red for early BR red. I'm sure there are other bits I should have improved, but I remain in blissful ignorance! A Bill Bedford D.368 sleeper is well on the way, and will appear in due course. Does anyone know where I can find a diagram of one of these, as they don't seem to be listed in the Isinglass catalogue?

 

Hope to see you at Stevenage.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[coronach]

Two original Bachmann cars with replacement Comet sides

 

thompson 1.htm

thompson 2.htm

Edited January 11, 2017 by coronach

[ScRSG]

Just going back to the debate about the use of more current tech., here is one taken on "Alloa" on a phone camera, which could be placed low down in an almost inaccessible location, which I think captures all you need from a model  photo. Taken by "vitalspark" of this parish, also best in black and white!

 

Chas

[it's-er]

Superb photo that, on Alloa, ScRSG! Difficult to tell it isn't a photograph taken in real life in the 1950s!

 

John Storey

[davidw]

Bachmann Thompson BTK 01 34-461 01.jpg

 

Bachmann Thompson TK 34-386 04.jpg

 

As promised, images of the latest production Bachmann Thompsons. In this case a BR-built BTK and an LNER-built TK (going on the builders' plates, which are clearly legible), both in BR carmine/cream. Because I helped (in a small way) with the development of these models, I must declare an interest. That done, I think these are superb vehicles. Yes, the moulded-on side handrails and handles on the sides (they're separate on the roof) are there to keep costs within reasonable amounts, but the overall accuracy and standard of finish are exemplary. I haven't looked at what these cost (around £50.00?), but they'll be excellent value for money, whatever. 

 

They are light years away from the previous Thompsons from the firm and even further away from Hornby's curious Thompson/Mk.1 mix of the '60s. In fact I'd say that these are the finest LNER/ex-LNER gangwayed carriages ever made RTR. 

 

All my Thompsons are either built from Comet kits or from Southern Pride conversions. Price-wise, the raw materials will be close to the price of the new Bachmann Thompsons. So, what's the future for kit-built 4mm Thompsons? 

 

A full review of these vehicles will be appearing in BRM (obviously, not written by me). I'll be conducting a few 'improvements' in the next week or two - fitting concertina gangways, changing the couplings, weathering, etc. I'll be writing those up for BRM. 

 

I wasn't going to bother with the Crimson Cream and wait  for the maroon versions ( but for how long?) until I saw those. Thank you for posting.

 

 

 

 

edited : missed out 'for the maroon versions'.

Edited January 11, 2017 by davidw

[Tony Wright]

Many thanks to all those who've posted images of Thompson carriages and/or made comments. 

 

It's probable that one or two of the following shots have been seen already, but there are always new visitors to this thread. 

 

 

 

One of my first jobs as Wolverhampton MRC was making Stoke Summit was to make The Elizabethan. I approached Comet at the time (1995?), and they weren't in the least bit interested in etching the distinctive sides for the necessary PV cars. 'No interest' I think was the response. 'Too specialised, they'll not sell'. So, I approached Dave Lewis of Southern Pride, and between us we did the research, Dave produced the test etches, I did a test-build (using Bachmann donors), built the whole train, wrote about it in BRM and, guess what? They sold like the proverbial hot cakes. 

 

Though I respect different allegiances, I think in BR maroon these cars looked at their best. Ersatz teak on steel-sided vehicles just looked wrong to me (I must have seen some as a child, but I have no recollection). In maroon, the whole train (the real one I mean) just looked beautiful. 

 

 

This is the RSO from the set; Bachmann donor, altered roof, fiddled-with underframe and cast metal heavy-duty bogies. 

 

 

Such was the popularity of the Lizzie sides that Dave went on to produce other Thompson vehicles, including the Kitchen Car. Again, the same modifications as the RSO produced this. 

 

I'll take a shot of that same Lizzie on LB tomorrow. It should make an interesting comparison, now that it's well over 20 years old. 

 

It could be that with the introduction of the latest Bachmann Thompsons then there'll be a regeneration of interest in these sides (and Comet kits for catering vehicles). The new RTR ones will need complementary catering cars. No doubt, redundant earlier Bachmann Thompsons will be going very cheap from now on!

Edited January 11, 2017 by Tony Wright

[Tony Wright]

thompson2.jpg

thompson1.jpg

Two original Bachmann cars with replacement Comet sides

Many thanks for posting,

 

I'm not sure, but did you alter the roof profile on the Bachmann donors? By taking out the sharp edge, it makes a big difference (though not big enough for me to tell easily, obviously). Similarly, did you alter the positions of the ventilators to put them on the centre line of the compartments, not the centre line of the roof. Worth doing, if not. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

I'm just about to embark on my first Comet chassis build and have watched some of Tony's video (need to watch the rest of it) and started reading  the Rice book on chassis construction as well as reading things in other places as well.

 

I have a question which I hope people don't mind answering. I've read and seen both broaches and reamers being talked about and used, do I need reamers, broaches, both and if so what are the best sizes to buy for building 00 gauge chassis? I'm aware of how useful they can be and want to buy some for when I tackle my first chassis once the garage warms up!

 

Many thanks 

 

Martyn

Martyn,

 

Some of your questions have been answered already. 

 

I have a full range of broaches, going from the very smallest (smaller than a needle) right up to one of about 4mm at its hilt. They come in all sorts of sets. Beware, no matter how much one pays for these (and good ones are expensive), the plastic handles will break, no matter what the size. This is very irritating, and I've spoken to the manufacturers saying that some of mine have been rendered just about useless, still with years of life left in their cutting edges.  

 

I have one broach which I use for making a snug fit for bearings in etched chassis. The ODs of these bearings can vary, so I've marked on the broach with an indelible pen how far I have to cut into the frames for each type. It just saves time.

 

With regard to reamers, the most useful one I have is a one eight taper reamer, used in a tap wrench by hand. Being tapered, it automatically centres and gives a perfect (Doncaster) clearance for one eighth driving axles.  

Edited January 11, 2017 by Tony Wright

[t-b-g]

Martyn,

 

Some of your questions have been answered already. 

 

I have a full range of broaches, going from the very smallest (smaller than a needle) right up to one of about 4mm at its hilt. They come in all sorts of sets. Beware, no matter how much one pays for these (and good ones are expensive), the plastic handles will break, no matter what the size. This is very irritating, and I've spoken to the manufacturers saying that some of mine have been rendered just about useless, still with years of life left in their cutting edges.  

 

I have one broach which I use for making a snug fit for bearings in etched chassis. The ODs of these bearings can vary, so I've marked on the broach with an indelible pen how far I have to cut into the frames for each type. It just saves time.

 

With regard to reamers, the most useful one I have is a one eight taper reamer, used in a tap wrench by hand. Being tapered, it automatically centres and gives a perfect (Doncaster) clearance for one eighth driving axles.  

 

When my cutting broaches lose their plastic handles, I use them in a suitable pin chuck. They are easier to grip and turn (especially the smaller ones) in a pin chuck than they ever were original handles.

 

How sad is it to get excited over a thread bearing the magic million views? I find myself looking at the number each time I have a look. I think that I just added another to the number.

 

Tony Gee

[Andy Hayter]

Not just you Tony.

 

It is however a testament to the other Tony and all of the other contributors that we are now looking at that landmark.

[Headstock]

Many thanks to all those who've posted images of Thompson carriages and/or made comments. 

 

It's probable that one or two of the following shots have been seen already, but there are always new visitors to this thread. 

 

01 60024 on Elizabethan.jpg

 

60024 on Up Elizabethan 02.jpg

 

One of my first jobs as Wolverhampton MRC was making Stoke Summit was to make The Elizabethan. I approached Comet at the time (1995?), and they weren't in the least bit interested in etching the distinctive sides for the necessary PV cars. 'No interest' I think was the response. 'Too specialised, they'll not sell'. So, I approached Dave Lewis of Southern Pride, and between us we did the research, Dave produced the test etches, I did a test-build (using Bachmann donors), built the whole train, wrote about it in BRM and, guess what? They sold like the proverbial hot cakes. 

 

Though I respect different allegiances, I think in BR maroon these cars looked at their best. Ersatz teak on steel-sided vehicles just looked wrong to me (I must have seen some as a child, but I have no recollection). In maroon, the whole train (the real one I mean) just looked beautiful. 

 

Thompson RSO.jpg

 

This is the RSO from the set; Bachmann donor, altered roof, fiddled-with underframe and cast metal heavy-duty bogies. 

 

Thompson Kitchen Car.jpg

 

Such was the popularity of the Lizzie sides that Dave went on to produce other Thompson vehicles, including the Kitchen Car. Again, the same modifications as the RSO produced this. 

 

I'll take a shot of that same Lizzie on LB tomorrow. It should make an interesting comparison, now that it's well over 20 years old. 

 

It could be that with the introduction of the latest Bachmann Thompsons then there'll be a regeneration of interest in these sides (and Comet kits for catering vehicles). The new RTR ones will need complementary catering cars. No doubt, redundant earlier Bachmann Thompsons will be going very cheap from now on!

 

Good evening Tony,

 

I've been doing quite a bit of research into the painted teak effect on steel carriages, in preparation for doing one of my own. The consensus of opinion seems to be that the version applied before the war was very effective, as it included painted representations of the shaded beading and was fully lined out. Most people who remember the post-war version were not impressed. The quality of the application varied somewhat from the meticulous on the PV sets to slapped on when applied to later carriages.

 

I have access to some high res black and white and some rare colour photographs. Both would indicate that a different paint mix and effect is required from the one I have used on a genuine teak carriages. In colour film and from a distance, the Thompsons look quite effective as they are a lovely glossy golden orange against the darker shades of some of the more aged Gresley carriages. I can only assume that the livery was adopted for the sake of consistency with the earlier stock. My own opinion is that the adoption of the livery applied to the tourist stock prior to the war would have been a viable alternative.

 

I have a Thompson composite standing by for painting now that I've worked out a technique. I will post pictures if it works out if it doesn't then maroon is not an option and a restart will be required.

[micklner]

This Thommo has come out well.

 

 

 

 

 

[Headstock]

This Thommo has come out well.

 

 

1 a thommo.jpg

 

Evening Mick,

 

Yes, it looks very convincing. I've seen the real carriage, however, it is almost two good. Both the style of painting and the paneling look different from the original photographs I have.

[grob1234]

When my cutting broaches lose their plastic handles, I use them in a suitable pin chuck. They are easier to grip and turn (especially the smaller ones) in a pin chuck than they ever were original handles.

 

 

Tony Gee

That's what I do too, works a treat.

 

Not sure if it's relevant to the "what tools do I need question" but I bought my broaches on eBay, and though cheap, have worked well. I don't doubt though, that more expensive, quality tools last longer.

 

Get a couple of adjustable tap wrenches for holding larger broaches and reamers, it's annoying to have to change all the time when working with different sizes.

 

For the axles, I bought a dormer 1/8th inch tapered reamer, it fits in a tap wrench and is excellent. Being tapered, it self centres.

 

Another really useful thing is an 8ba screw tap, for re tapping brass nuts that have been soldered.

 

Hope this helps.

Edited January 12, 2017 by grob1234

[Enterprisingwestern]

Not just you Tony.

 

It is however a testament to the other Tony and all of the other contributors that we are now looking at that landmark.

 

I don't know how it can be fiddled, I'm sure it can be, but the esteemed perpetrator of the thread should be the person to make the landmark posting IMHO.

 

Mike.

[micklner]

Evening Mick,

 

Yes, it looks very convincing. I've seen the real carriage, however, it is almost two good. Both the style of painting and the paneling look different from the original photographs I have.

 

A Google search revealed this Scottish Society beautiful preserved Suburban example albeit BR numbering, any better/correct ( not to sure re the White handrails) ?.

 

A shame Hornby didn't make there ones similar to this livery.

 

Edited January 12, 2017 by micklner

[LNER4479]

Hello Tony,

 

Less than 500 views to go until the magic million, so my congrats in anticipation of that being later on sometime today or perhaps tomorrow.

 

Knowing how much you like to see folks building things, and with a slight connection to recent posts as it does feature teak, I present below my new kit building challenge that I am about to embark on.

 

This is a project to create one of the recycled ex-GNR Quint sets that were seen in the Grantham-Nottingham area in the 1930's. Note to the uninitiated - these are NOT the same as the more famous Quad-Arts and Quint-Arts seen on London suburban services!

 

I say 'kit building' but elements of it are more at the scratch-building end. As you can see, I sourced the Isinglass two-part drawings for these sets then I have had to build up the component parts individually. The end brake vehicles were the most difficulty. I have eventually ridden on the coat-tails of the etches produced for the Clayton project, but even so, one of mine will have to be subject to some alteration to create the appropriate vehicle.

 

The main build will be featured on the Grantham thread, but I'll keep posting periodic updates here.

Edited January 12, 2017 by LNER4479

[Memphis32]

How does one store/transport these artic sets? Do they come apart at the joins easily?

[jwealleans]

At the risk of sounding fatuous, that depends how you've built them. Most of the artic stock which I've built for Grantham uses the MJT system to attach bogies, which is a presstud. It's very easy to ping them apart with a screwdriver for storage.

 

I have also built a QuadArt set using ABS bogies - I made a box for that such that I only need to remove the centre joint and it stores in two halves.

 

Ian Kirk kits, for example, just have a peg on the end of each carriage and they drop into holes in the bogies. The disadvantage of that is that the bogies stay where they are when you pick the carriages up. It's really down to personal preference.

[glo41f]

I can recall the "ersatz" teak applied post war. I can remember it striking me as a peculiar "orange" shade so much so that I asked a railway employee why they were painted orange. This was only the Thompson stock as the Gresley stock was still in dirty original teak. I do not think the finish suits the coaches and my Thompsons are in crimson and cream.

 

The pictures of the A4  on the Elizabethan are really lovely. It just goes to show that it is possible with care and commitment to create a realistic train in realistic surroundings.  (the dark side is tempting again!)

 

I am amazed generally by the depth of knowledge and expertise that posters on this thread have. Truly a delight to read all your comments and those of the Great Leader!

 

Martin Long

[Tony Wright]

I can recall the "ersatz" teak applied post war. I can remember it striking me as a peculiar "orange" shade so much so that I asked a railway employee why they were painted orange. This was only the Thompson stock as the Gresley stock was still in dirty original teak. I do not think the finish suits the coaches and my Thompsons are in crimson and cream.

 

The pictures of the A4  on the Elizabethan are really lovely. It just goes to show that it is possible with care and commitment to create a realistic train in realistic surroundings.  (the dark side is tempting again!)

 

I am amazed generally by the depth of knowledge and expertise that posters on this thread have. Truly a delight to read all your comments and those of the Great Leader!

 

Martin Long

As always, many thanks Martin. 

 

Your comments on the pictures of The Elizabethan in its surroundings are very flattering, but it shows more (to me) how something like that can happen if teamwork takes place. I've said this before, but if a group of like-minded individuals pool their relative resources/skills and follow a common aim, then it can work. Yes, I built the train in those pictures, but it took Dave Lewis's expertise as a kit-producer to create the parts. I also (mostly) built the A4 (Mick Peabody started it but not being used to streamlined, big engines with whirling outside gear he got a bit bamboozled). However, it took Ian Rathbone to give it that beautiful 'oily' finish. Rob Kinsey and Tony Geary built the signals. They also built the track, and I laid and ballasted it all. It's very well supported on Norman Turner's superlative baseboards, as is the scenery on Mick Peabody's fibreglass sub-structure. Stuart Brasier made those lovely trees. Nobody waved chequebooks around - we just got on and did it. 

 

I'm delighted Stoke Summit is now in its new home in Devon; I receive regular reports on how it's doing after a long and successful exhibition career. Perhaps the current owner might post some up-to-date pictures, please. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[coachmann]

When researching a history of the Delph branch and OA&GB line, I came across a remark that the trains from Oldham to Guide Bridge were known locally as 'banana trains'.  It was assumed the term was applied because of the yellowish LNER teak coaches amidst a sea of LMS 'maroon' seen on neighboring ex LNWR and L&Y lines.

Edited January 12, 2017 by coachmann