Wright writes.....

[The Johnster]

There may, conceivably, be such a thing as enough locos, though I have never encountered it.  I assume it to be the theoretical state of owning a model of every locomotive or piece of stock that might conceivably have ever worked on your railway in every possible variety of the liveries and conditions of weathering in which they may have done so.

 

But too many locos?  That's just madness, madness I tells ya...

[St Enodoc]

we are moving into spring

It didn't feel like it when I arrived (eventually) from Sydney yesterday Doug...

[coachmann]

Hornby's Gresley coaches represent the ultimate in anti mass production techniques. The Gresley bogies alone were assembled from around 28 separate components - maybe more as I have forgotten. Yet, with forethought,  mass production can produce a two or three part bogie. Foot boards glued to brackets which in turn were glued to solebars were just asking to fall off.  And at the end of the day, all this super-duper detail counted for beggar-all when the lower bodies failed to have the correct tumble home or turn-under.  What followed was a complete about-turn and the announcement of 'Clever Design'..........Generally used for all the wrong details!

 

I live in hope the new Hornby team will revisit Gresley coach territory and produce some 1930's end-door corridor stock.

Edited September 26, 2017 by coachmann

[Headstock]

That's fair enough Andrew and an equally valid approach.

 

My modelling is also driven by what was there (or, in some cases, what could have been there). It just wasn't all there at the same time. 

 

There is more than one way to skin a Caterpillar, as they say.

[Headstock]

Hornby's Gresley coaches represent the ultimate in anti mass production techniques. The Gresley bogies alone were assembled from around 28 separate components - maybe more as I have forgotten. Yet, with forethought,  mass production can produce a two or three part bogie. Foot boards glued to brackets which in turn were glued to solebars were just asking to fall off.  And at the end of the day, all this super-duper detail counted for beggar-all when the lower bodies failed to have the correct tumble home or turn-under.  What followed was a complete about-turn and the announcement of 'Clever Design'..........Generally used for all the wrong details!

 

I live in hope the new Hornby team will revisit Gresley coach territory and produce some 1930's end-door corridor stock.

 

No way! let Hornby mutilate the carriages of some other unfortunate Railway company. There are probably two or three times the number of inaccuracies on the underframe and gubbins as there are on the bodies, I think that the bogies are pretty good, despite their fragility.

[coachmann]

No way! let Hornby mutilate the carriages of some other unfortunate Railway company. There are probably two or three times the number of inaccuracies on the underframe and gubbins as there are on the bodies, I think that the bogies are pretty good, despite their fragility.

Another armchair expert!

 

Hornby have not mutilated (in your words) the Hawksworth corridor coaches, the Collett bow end stock, the LNER Thompson corridor stock, non-corridor Thompsons and Gresleys. 

[Tony Wright]

While visiting on Saturday, Roy and I were discussing how many locomotives would be considered too many. You then proceeded to show us some of the locomotives you've got squirreled away in draws and told us how you periodically swap them around so  that everything gets a run.

 

While I still don't have a clue how many locomotives would be considered too many, I do now have an idea how many could be considered just enough!

Steve,

 

I don't know the answer to the question as to how many locomotives constitute 'too many'. Roughly speaking, I have three for every train. We ran (almost) the 50-train sequence on Saturday, and it's my intention to change those 50 locos for 50 different ones by the time the next group visits, next week. Then, substitute those for the next 50 in a month's time, and so on. 

 

Luckily, it's very rare that I have to substitute for a failure. 

 

Counting the modified RTR locos (of which there are a few) gives a dozen more, and that's not to mention the diesels (which are almost all RTR). Is that too high a number? Given that I've been building locos for over 40 years (several you drove on Saturday were older than you), probably not. As is well known, my own loco-building for ECML types is governed by what I saw.  Right now I have 12 kit-built A1s and one modified RTR one (I sold some modified RTR ones last year as 'surplus to requirements') but I saw almost all the class apart from those based in Scotland. I definitely won't make the rest, but perhaps round the number up to 20 before I'm through. There are equal ratios among the other Pacific classes (apart from the A2/2s, where I've got half the class - I've built at least three times more than were built, but for customers). 

 

I do occasionally feel surprised when someone claims to, say, have a model of every A4 (including the blown-up one). But, on investigation, they're all RTR, in most cases (obviously) renumbered/renamed. To me, that's more akin to collecting, and certainly not for me. Still, each to their own. As for the likes of the A4 'collector', yes, you can have too many locos if you have 36 A4s! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited September 26, 2017 by Tony Wright

[Mallard60022]

Another armchair expert!

 

Hornby have not mutilated (in your words) the Hawksworth corridor coaches, the Collett bow end stock, the LNER Thompson corridor stock, non-corridor Thompsons and Gresleys. 

....and Maunsells.

P

[Atso]

Inspired but Tony's locomotives last weekend, I decided to have a go at white metal soldering. In my gloat box was an old Graham Hughes N gauge J50 body kit that I managed to obtain many years ago and have never had the courage to assemble it. Out came the new soldering iron and the temperature was set to 230 degrees....

 

 

Behind it is my 3D printed J50 that I designed and build a few years back now. The Hughes J50 is sitting on a Farish Pannier chassis which needs a little more work to get the ride height a little lower. My 3D printed J50 runs on a correct 7'3 by 9' wheelbase chassis custom build for me by Hans Starmans from Holland.

 

I'm quite impressed with myself for soldering white metal, brass I've been fine with for a little while now but I've always steered clear of soldering low melt alloys until now.

 

[Clive Mortimore]

Steve,

 

I don't know the answer to the question as to how many locomotives constitute 'too many'. Roughly speaking, I have three for every train. We ran (almost) the 50-train sequence on Saturday, and it's my intention to change those 50 locos for 50 different ones by the time the next group visits, next week. Then, substitute those for the next 50 in a month's time, and so on. 

 

Luckily, it's very rare that I have to substitute for a failure. 

 

Counting the modified RTR locos (of which there are a few) gives a dozen more, and that's not to mention the diesels (which are almost all RTR). Is that too high a number? Given that I've been building locos for over 40 years (several you drove on Saturday were older than you), probably not. As is well known, my own loco-building for ECML types is governed by what I saw.  Right now I have 12 kit-built A1s and one modified RTR one (I sold some modified RTR ones last year as 'surplus to requirements') but I saw almost all the class apart from those based in Scotland. I definitely won't make the rest, but perhaps round the number up to 20 before I'm through. There are equal ratios among the other Pacific classes (apart from the A2/2s, where I've got half the class - I've built at least three times more than were built, but for customers). 

 

I do occasionally feel surprised when someone claims to, say, have a model of every A4 (including the blown-up one). But, on investigation, they're all RTR, in most cases (obviously) renumbered/renamed. To me, that's more akin to collecting, and certainly not for me. Still, each to their own. As for the likes of the A4 'collector', yes, you can have too many locos if you have 36 A4s! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Hello Tony

 

You mean people don't model the whole class but go out and buy the whole class?

 

In the photo are 4 scratchbuilt, 5 Tri-ang Type 3 cut and shuts and one Lima Type 4 cut and shut. The carriage heating unit, Number 19 is a Bachmann RTR model, I think the easiest conversion I have ever done, loco into a carriage heater.

[Headstock]

Another armchair expert!

 

Hornby have not mutilated (in your words) the Hawksworth corridor coaches, the Collett bow end stock, the LNER Thompson corridor stock, non-corridor Thompsons and Gresleys. 

 

Chaise lounge expert thank you very much.

[DougN]

It didn't feel like it when I arrived (eventually) from Sydney yesterday Doug...

Your talking about Melbourne in spring.... just expect the unexpected... yesterday 17 today 23 I expect we'll have more snow before Saturday. As the say here don't like Melbourne weather give it 5minutes it will change....

[Jamiel]

Thank you to everyone for their comments and likes on the Crosti 9F.

I have been asked about the detailing and weathering, so here are some links to my layout thread which covers the build, and also a little bit about how I do the weathering.

 

The first abortive work on the 9F is here, the Brassmasters pony truck is EM Gauge, which I had not realised.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/53110-ellerby-comet-black-5-kit-station-buildings-rolling-stock-index/page-10&do=findComment&comment=2049838

 

Detailing proper starts here.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/53110-ellerby-comet-black-5-kit-station-buildings-rolling-stock-index/page-10&do=findComment&comment=2056859

I do think the brake work would benefit from brass work now, the plastic I did is not as good as it might be.

I also made a few posts about the parts used on the Hornby Crosti thread.
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/80314-railroad-crosti-9f/page-32&do=findComment&comment=2043875

The front pony trucks is the Comet one, but with some parts from the Brassmasters added over, filed down to fit OO gauge and guitar strings added for springs.

The weathering uses the same techniques I used on my Cambrian Catfish and Dogfish.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/53110-ellerby-comet-black-5-kit-station-buildings-rolling-stock-index/page-7&do=findComment&comment=1455345

 

One thing I have done with all my weathering, both on rolling stock and buildings is to alternate between using an airbrush and drybrushing.

 

In general for weathering rolling stock I start with a light airbrush of a dirt colour on the body. I then use a cotton bud dipped in thinner, or white spirit to wipe much of this this off but leaving a build up in the cracks and edges. For details such as the areas around headcode discs, or lamp irons, I quite often paint a little dark dirt, often mixed with black and then wipe it off leaving the paint around the hard to reach edges to create the edge build up that occurs.

Usually I then do a light overall airbrush with my basic weathering dirt colour.

I then dry brush with lighter colours, this brings out detail beautifully. I alternate doing this between lighter and darker colours. I find it is good to have a couple of colours of paint on a piece of card, and to keep mixing them a little randomly so that the colours get some natural variation.

Always use the brush strokes the way gravity would take the dirt for the initial pass, and the same for wiping with a thinner covered cotton bud. The angle of airbrushing is similar, but can also take into account the air blowing dirt as the loco moves and also exhaust/smoke sources.



(That air horn needs a little toning down I think).

 

For the chassis, wheels and bogies put the chassis on a short piece of track I have fixed to a wooden board with a nail at ether end. This is a poor man’s rolling road. A rubber band then holds the loco loosely in position, I power the wheels, and airbrush the dirt colour. I then dry brush more dirt and grime.

I reference photos of the loco, for steam engines I have noticed that the front of the cylinders often get either a coat of rust, or brown dirt on them.

Then body and chassis are reunited at this point. I then do any specific bits of detail weathering I wish to add.

For both rolling stock and buildings I do something I haven’t seen a lot of people mention, I do a light coat of the base colour of the loco, or brick work. This tends to blend the brush strokes together, and takes away the hand painted look they can sometimes generate.

There is one final thing I do, which comes from my design and film work. I add a tint of the ‘grade’ colour have chosen for my layout. This is rather like when a cinematographer puts a filter on the lens of a camera, it gives everything in the frame a very slight tint and brings the whole image together within a colour palette.

My layout is in an area with a lot of red brick buildings, so everything that goes on it has a ‘dusting’ of a 50/50 mix of Humbrol Matt 70 (brick red) and Matt 98 (chocolate).

To give an example of this, some artworks I made for collectors of live recordings have all had the same treatment with a sepia tint to pull together the images used

 

http://www.jamielochhead.co.uk/ptree.html

 

 

I tend to not mask small windows when lightly airbrushing, but immediately wipe off the paint with a cotton bud in thinner. This creates a slightly grimy window, but also moves the dirt to the edges and creates a natural build up. Don't do this for heavy coats with the airbrush though.

I must also add that it takes 3-4 days to do the weathering as most stages need to dry well before the next, and that I am a very slow modeller.

 

One other thing that my mother, an art teacher taught me, is to limit you pallete. Although with rolling stock there may be a lot of colours to replicate, especially modern image modellers, the basic colours should be chosen from the ‘main' colour, a variation of the colour, and a complimentary colour, or perhaps one in sympathy with it, plus black and white to create tints.

One other thing I would mention about colour is to be aware that reference photographs are affected by a great many things beyond the colour of the subject, the stock, the lighting, water, time of day, etc. I posted on this at http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/123189-what-is-green-or-blue-how-photography-affects-colours/ if it is of interest.

I can also greatly recommend 'The Art of Weathering' by Martyn Welch as a great book covering all aspects of weathering.

Sorry for the long winded post, but hopefully there is some useful information in there.

Jamie

Edited September 27, 2017 by Jamiel

[Tony Wright]

Another armchair expert!

 

Hornby have not mutilated (in your words) the Hawksworth corridor coaches, the Collett bow end stock, the LNER Thompson corridor stock, non-corridor Thompsons and Gresleys. 

I imagine that even real experts sit in armchairs from time to time, Larry. 

 

Andrew's expertise goes way, way beyond the comfort of an armchair, as illustrations of his modelling on this thread clearly show. I rate him among the top contemporary builders in 4mm, especially as he weathers everything he makes, giving it the most natural, realistic appearance. 

 

To be fair, I don't think any manufacturer 'mutilates' anything they make (that's usually left to the likes of me in the way of cutting, sawing, carving and altering). It's a great shame that Hornby's gangwayed Gresley carriages have such a poor body shape (does the firm make Thompson corridor stock?), though the non-gangwayed LNER stock is first class. 

 

I've made Comet kits to the same diagrams as these shown below, but I haven't matched the RTR excellence. 

 

 

This is the LNER all Third, weathered down employing the dry-brush technique with a range of colours including matt brown, matt grey and matt black. 

 

 

And the same diagram, this time in BR ownership. 

 

 

The same weathering techniques were applied to the LNER Semi Corridor Lavatory Composite.

 

 

Though pretty grotty now in comparison with the current RTR and etched equivalents, old Kirk kits can be 'brought to life' with a touch of weathering. I built this one some time ago and painted it in (wartime) unlined teak, weathering it lightly. With the other LNER vehicles, it'll be used for the LNER weekend scheduled for LB next year. 

 

Though nowhere near the standard of your coach-building, as layout carriages, used on a big layout, they have their place I think. As everything I've made with regard to locos and rolling stock is weathered to one degree or another, then these fit in quite well in my view.

 

Others have recently posted examples of their weathering - my most grateful thanks for those.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[micklner]

The only Thompson Corridor by Hornby I know off are the very old version perhaps Triang based ?

 

The current Hornby Gresley and Thompson Suburbans have been badly let down in the last batch by the very poor Teak finish see the Compo photo above compared to the All 3rd photo. The early issues appear to be quite elusive and go for silly money on eBay when offered.

 

Kirk compared to recent offerings are now very poor with a lot of work required to make them decent models. Sunken windows being the main problem, no cure for that main failing as far as I know. Roofs are normally a poor/to very poor fit and the underframe and bogie detail is basic in the extreme . MJT castings/etches  make them much better and used also for any Roof Vents required.

 

 

edit

The Kirk Coach on looking at the photo under magnification , has had a lot of extra parts added to the Underframe , the Bogies and Buffers appear to be replacements.

Edited September 27, 2017 by micklner

[Mallard60022]

 

Yes, that 9F was one I brought over and we renumbered it and you showed me the 'trick' of glazing the spectacles. I can only admit to building the tender from Comet frame and chassis and a spare RTR tender top of the correct design for 92205. The original kit build 92234 I think it was, was a bargain from the old RMW sales site and it had a high sided tender (CBA to look up the type...sorry) like the ER ones. That had the smallest of dings at the back end and was traded for the B1G I think it is.

 

 

Apologies for delay but I've just found the pics I took of the 'replacement tender' for the 9F mentioned some time back.

I quite enjoyed this 'conversion'.

Someone will now tell me the 'Lions' are incorrect! Sorry, I don't really care at the moment.

Phil

Edited September 27, 2017 by Mallard60022

[Corbs]

Inspired but Tony's locomotives last weekend, I decided to have a go at white metal soldering. In my gloat box was an old Graham Hughes N gauge J50 body kit that I managed to obtain many years ago and have never had the courage to assemble it. Out came the new soldering iron and the temperature was set to 230 degrees....

 

J50s.jpg

 

Behind it is my 3D printed J50 that I designed and build a few years back now. The Hughes J50 is sitting on a Farish Pannier chassis which needs a little more work to get the ride height a little lower. My 3D printed J50 runs on a correct 7'3 by 9' wheelbase chassis custom build for me by Hans Starmans from Holland.

 

I'm quite impressed with myself for soldering white metal, brass I've been fine with for a little while now but I've always steered clear of soldering low melt alloys until now.

 

Atso, did you use low melt solder for this kit?

[Atso]

Atso, did you use low melt solder for this kit?

 

Hi Corbs,

 

Yes, I used Carrs 70 degree solder for the J50 with the exception of the replacement chimney and smokebox door which are epoxied . I've also got an old ABS J52 that I super glued together years ago, it's currently sitting in a bath of paint stripper and hopefully the glue joints will fail soon so I can rebuild it to a better standard.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Atso

[Lecorbusier]

Hi Corbs,

 

Yes, I used Carrs 70 degree solder for the J50 with the exception of the replacement chimney and smokebox door which are epoxied . I've also got an old ABS J52 that I super glued together years ago, it's currently sitting in a bath of paint stripper and hopefully the glue joints will fail soon so I can rebuild it to a better standard.

I've found that putting cyno bonded white metal in boiling water breaks the bond ... doesn't seem to like heat (assuming the superglue is cyno).

[Atso]

I've found that putting cyno bonded white metal in boiling water breaks the bond ... doesn't seem to like heat (assuming the superglue is cyno).

Thanks for that. If the glue joints haven't broken by the morning I'll give that a try.

[Tony Wright]

Apologies for delay but I've just found the pics I took of the 'replacement tender' for the 9F mentioned some time back.

Img_0086.jpg

Img_0087.jpg

Img_0089.jpg

Img_0090.jpg

Img_0108.jpg

I quite enjoyed this 'conversion'.

Someone will now tell me the 'Lions' are incorrect! Sorry, I don't really care at the moment.

Phil

Thanks Phil,

 

The lions are facing the right way - that is to the left. 

 

After BR's ignorance of the tenets of Heraldry was revealed, and they were told a right-facing lion wasn't acceptable, it was altered from about 1958 onwards. 

[Tony Wright]

The only Thompson Corridor by Hornby I know off are the very old version perhaps Triang based ?

 

The current Suburbans have been badly let down in the last batch by the very poor Teak finish see the Compo photo above compared to the 3rd photo. The early issues appear to be quite elusive and go for silly money on eBay when offered.

 

Kirk compared to recent offerings are now very poor without a lot of work . Sunken windows being the main problem. Roofs are normally a poor fit and underframe and bogie detail basic in the extreme . MJT castings/etches  make them much better.

Mick,

 

I think the Kirk kits are definitely 'products of their time'. Years ago I built loads of them because the alternative was BSL, on to which one had to fix all the beading. Apart from a couple, they've now all been sold on. 

 

I hadn't noticed the different teak pattern on the SCLC, but you're right, it isn't as convincing. Still, in its four/five car rake, even on the small layout I've got at one end, it doesn't look too bad from 'stand-off' scale. 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Tony Wright

[SJR]

While visiting on Saturday, Roy and I were discussing how many locomotives would be considered too many. You then proceeded to show us some of the locomotives you've got squirreled away in draws and told us how you periodically swap them around so  that everything gets a run.

 

While I still don't have a clue how many locomotives would be considered too many, I do now have an idea how many could be considered just enough!

My partner thinks she knows how many locomotives are to many....Of course she is mistaken...

[Jesse Sim]

 

With the other LNER vehicles, it'll be used for the LNER weekend scheduled for LB next year. 

 

 

Have you got that weekend picked yet Tony?

Edited September 28, 2017 by Jesse Sim

[St Enodoc]

My partner thinks she knows how many locomotives are to many....Of course she is mistaken...

How would she know? Judging from your profile photo you follow a railway whose locos all look the same anyway (allegedly...).