Wright writes.....

[Atso]

Tony,

 

Having found two (very good) articles by you in two different magazines this month, I think it is clear that you still enjoy writing and not ready to 'retire' from that activity - long may it continue.

 

With regard to the renaming of locomotives, I much prefer the original names given to the A4s and am not a fan of the later renaming after directors and Generals. That said, I have no issue with 'Sir Nigel Gresley' as this was the 100th Pacific of his designs to roll out of the erecting shops. However, considering the limited time in office, did Thompson and Peppercorn deserve to have locomotives named after them? Regardless of what I think, it happened and is a part of railway history now.

 

Referring back to pre-grouping days, the GNR had two named locomotives that I can think of....

[thegreenhowards]

I can only speak on this matter as I find.

 

Just about every locomotive on the list I produced yesterday has Romford/Markits bogie/pony wheels (as appropriate), including every modified RTR loco. 

 

Though it would be stupid of me to state I never get bogie/pony derailments, they are very, very rare (as you'll bear witness, Andy). 

 

I wonder why? Is it because my track is well made and well-laid, that no curve (on the main running lines) is less than 3' in radius and every fiddle yard point (apart from in some sidings) is the largest RTL radius? 

 

I've personally fiddled with too many layouts where too much track has tried to be crammed in (particularly in fiddle yards), resulting in too-tight radii on plain track and points of too-sharp a radii for each road. This results in poor running and too frequent derailments. 

 

Andy, I'm not suggesting you've got those faults (nor Micklner), but might I suggest you look at your trackwork before abandoning Markits bogie/pony wheels out of hand? Hornby's bogie pony wheels are just too clunky, and bear little resemblance to the real things - wheel centres, spokes, rims, etc. They're designed for train set curves, and they work fine for those but they do look pretty poor, especially in photographs. Bachmann's bogie/pony wheels are better, though they're still best replaced.

Tony,

 

I’m sure you’re right about the track. It’s mainly in one or two particular spots that the loco derails, and the track there is not perfect. I meant to say that in my original post. However, original Hornby wheels go over the track fine, and given all the other imperfections in my layout and stock, resolving this is not going to get to the top of my list very soon.

 

I also have to consider running my locos at my club where the track is even worse - old style streamline frogs are the main culprit. You could say, get a better club, but there are other considerations!

 

Andy

[Re6/6]

Another from the late Nigel Hunt.

 

This time a GNR D2 (?) possibly built from a London Road kit

 

 

..and a couple of coaches to go with it! Probably D&S.

 

 

[Tony Wright]

Further to the discussion on bogie/pony wheels, the following pictures might be of interest...................

 

 

I think this was the first Hornby A3 supplied with German blinkers and a GNR-style chimney. Without doubt, it is a cracking model at source and is, no doubt, superior to many a kit-built equivalent. However, those bogie wheels are really rather poor.

 

 

Surely it's worth replacing them with something more realistic (forget the other alterations). I still have this modified Hornby A3 (I don't still have 60049, though I did modify it) and the Markits bogie wheels do not derail.

 

 

Hornby's SPARROW HAWK as supplied..........

 

 

Again, don't bother with the other mods, but look how much better the bogie wheels look.

 

 

The difference is even more marked in comparative close-up. Note in the replacement Markits wheels the correct shape of the spokes and the rim. And, they do not derail. Since we usually see the bogie wheels before any others, the originals supplied are really worth replacing. 

 

 

This time, a Bachmann comparison. Again, ignore the other 'improvements', and, even though these are ancient MGW bogie wheels on 60125 (with deeper flanges than Markits), the shape of the spokes, with that typical flair, is far better in my view.

 

 

And, would any 'serious' modeller leave these bogie wheels on an otherwise excellent RTR product? 

 

Just to finish...............

 

P2s have been mentioned. Are there any finer-looking models (of no-finer-looking prototypes) than these Loveless O Gauge RTR examples? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

Tony,

 

I’m sure you’re right about the track. It’s mainly in one or two particular spots that the loco derails, and the track there is not perfect. I meant to say that in my original post. However, original Hornby wheels go over the track fine, and given all the other imperfections in my layout and stock, resolving this is not going to get to the top of my list very soon.

 

I also have to consider running my locos at my club where the track is even worse - old style streamline frogs are the main culprit. You could say, get a better club, but there are other considerations!

 

Andy

Andy,

 

Many thanks. 

 

I count you as a dear friend, so I'll tell it as I see it............

 

Using a (rather poor) analogy, you're 'curing' a knocking noise from your car's engine (though I'm not suggesting that your MGB's engine clatters) by turning up the radio so it's so loud, that you then can't hear the banging!

 

Surely, any high priority with regard to building a layout (after building sound baseboards) is to make sure the track is laid 'perfectly'. If not, and the only way you can achieve 'good' running is by the use of train set wheels, then, in my view, you're masking a problem which will only get worse. 

 

As for your club, tell 'em the track's no good! I did recently; there was some huffing and puffing, but I just altered a section of track and readjusted a point. Next time I went, a lot more had been improved. But then, I'm a thick-skinned sort of bloke whose parents 'never married'!  

[MJI]

What's in a name .... A rose by any other name would smell as sweet .... and vice-versa.

 

For me the names on the 125s are/were all but meaningless .... yet appended to an A4 or a King or a jubilee ... well we all know how evocative they are.

 

I like diesels and electrics much more than I used to and some of the layouts are stunning, but for me steam locomotives (love or hate them) have a soul and so a name becomes associated with a machine ... it is the machine that makes the name and not the other way around. Writing flying scotsman on a HST doesn't evoke anything. Thats not to say I don't like to see a HST or the Midland Pulman ... but rather that I don't really mind which one as I draw no real distinction. Edit - those who collect numbers may disagree, but then that is about numbers not names?

 

Just a personal thing. However I would argue that Tornado goes a fair way to proving my point?

 

Some of them are meaningful.

 

One is named after the engineer in charge of the HST project.

Another is named after the industrial designer responible for the cab styling.

Some are named after drivers killed while driving HSTs.

Some after military people.

 

Then reused Brunel

[MJI]

In the main steam locos got a name and kept it. Modern naming policy seems to be for publicity purposes and then removing it at the next overhaul so they can do the stunt again.

My perception might be off as I do not follow it avidly but that is how it appears.

Richard

 

I still remember the upset when 50 007 get renamed for GWR 150.

 

It was often graffitied quite rightly with the word Hercules.

[Lecorbusier]

Some of them are meaningful.

 

One is named after the engineer in charge of the HST project.

Another is named after the industrial designer responible for the cab styling.

Some are named after drivers killed while driving HSTs.

Some after military people.

 

Then reused Brunel

That is a good point Martin.

 

I hope it didn't come across that I  think locomotives shouldn't be named after the demise of steam ... more that the name I think is no longer particularly associated with a given locomotive by the public at large. I think as a way of honouring people or things it is a great tradition which should be supported .... as I mention above, I suspect it is far more genuine than some of the other honours dished out.

[Chamby]

Naming locomotives today is very different from the steam era. Most passenger trains are now multiple units and the concept of undertaking a rail journey with a named locomotive leading you up front is all but history.

 

Currently, named locomotives haul freight and have only a passing aquintance with the travelling public. That is, assuming that you can see the nameplate under the grime!

[stewartingram]

2 points for me on this:

 

GBrf seem to have enlightened attitude, with more than a hint of pride shining through from them.

 

Naming of MUs seems pointless to me. The loco is a focal point on a train; nothing like that is available in a MU, so which bit gets the name?

 

Stewart

[thegreenhowards]

Andy,

 

Many thanks. 

 

I count you as a dear friend, so I'll tell it as I see it............

 

Using a (rather poor) analogy, you're 'curing' a knocking noise from your car's engine (though I'm not suggesting that your MGB's engine clatters) by turning up the radio so it's so loud, that you then can't hear the banging!

 

Surely, any high priority with regard to building a layout (after building sound baseboards) is to make sure the track is laid 'perfectly'. If not, and the only way you can achieve 'good' running is by the use of train set wheels, then, in my view, you're masking a problem which will only get worse. 

 

As for your club, tell 'em the track's no good! I did recently; there was some huffing and puffing, but I just altered a section of track and readjusted a point. Next time I went, a lot more had been improved. But then, I'm a thick-skinned sort of bloke whose parents 'never married'!  

 

Tony,

 

You are, of course, annoyingly right! Although, I would say that a knocking engine is much more noticeable. While I can see the difference in the bogie wheels when you post them together in close up, as above, they're not that noticeable when bowling round on the layout - at least to my untutored eye. IMHO there are much bigger and easier 'wins' in terms of improving my rolling stock. 

 

Perfect track is a holy grail to which I aspire, but realistically I will never get mine as good as yours; I doubt many people get to your standards of reliability - cue howls of indignation! I've not given up on getting my track right...it's just an extremely frustrating and time consuming job which I can only do in small doses. Of course, I should have laid it better in the first place, but this whole layout has been a learning curve - my first layout for 30 years.

 

Andy

[Tony Wright]

Tony,

 

You are, of course, annoyingly right! Although, I would say that a knocking engine is much more noticeable. While I can see the difference in the bogie wheels when you post them together in close up, as above, they're not that noticeable when bowling round on the layout - at least to my untutored eye. IMHO there are much bigger and easier 'wins' in terms of improving my rolling stock. 

 

Perfect track is a holy grail to which I aspire, but realistically I will never get mine as good as yours; I doubt many people get to your standards of reliability - cue howls of indignation! I've not given up on getting my track right...it's just an extremely frustrating and time consuming job which I can only do in small doses. Of course, I should have laid it better in the first place, but this whole layout has been a learning curve - my first layout for 30 years.

 

Andy

Thanks again Andy,

 

Few layouts have the good fortune, as mine does, to have trackwork made/laid by Norman Solomon, but he didn't lay the fiddle yard tracks (which is the majority); I did. I say that, not to boast, but to illustrate that with care and a reluctance to cram too much in, trackwork can be laid so that's it's reliable and doesn't cause derailments. My fiddle yard track is all Peco Code 100, though not the old-fashioned 'universal' sort. 

[glo41f]

I am totally with our leader on the vexed question of lamps on locos and perhaps even more so on the last vehicle of a train where they serve the same purpose as full size by indicating that the train is whole and complete.Fortunately in 7mm scale the lamps are easy to deal with and I accept that in 4mm there are issues with the size of these. These days it is possible to get magnetic strip material which can be cut into small pieces. If steel wire (staples?) are used as the lamp irons, could a small magnet actually see a secure attachment for any particular train. Perhaps 3D printed lamps could incorporate a small cavity for the magnet strip to be glued in?

 

The pictures of the various bogie wheels convince me that the replacements are so much better than those supplied. It surely is a "must do" modification.

 

Martin Long

[Buhar]

Hi David and All

 

You can fun doubleheading some LNER locos, Salmon Trout and Sandwich. "No cucumber in mine please".

 

I did once post "Be careful double heading  60108 with 60533" and someone posted that there was never a class 60 60108 or 60533.

I wish I could find the detail of this concerning the LNWR (who were normally averse to double-heading), but it's archived somewhere.  Anyway, after some management nonsense had been promulgated to the disgruntlement of staff, the said manager was known to be travelling from Euston.  As it happens he had a locomotive named after him, and so the shed staff provided that one and also the pilot engine (both were Claughton's I think).  The manager went to inspect the locos and found the pairing of "Vindictive" and then his own name.

 

Naming of locomotives has always been a fascinating subject.

 

I think it's fair to say that the LNER's choice to name some of its most prestigious locos after racehorses resulted in some of the most quirky epithets ever bestowed on anything (apart from equine speedsters). All were flat racers - no jumpers 

 

Given the nature of the line they ran, on any jumpers would have been thoroughly out of sorts, the only obstacle after London being Stoke Bump.

[Tony Wright]

 

 

 

Given the nature of the line they ran, on any jumpers would have been thoroughly out of sorts, the only obstacle after London being Stoke Bump.

Believe it or not, the highest point on the ECML - in Lincolnshire!

[Herbert Nigel]

Sir! Sir! I'm not arguing sir, but isn't Stoke summit's only claim that it is the highest point of the ECML in England. Penmanshiel (definitely on the ECML) is apparently slightly higher above sea level.

[St Enodoc]

I am totally with our leader on the vexed question of lamps on locos and perhaps even more so on the last vehicle of a train where they serve the same purpose as full size by indicating that the train is whole and complete.Fortunately in 7mm scale the lamps are easy to deal with and I accept that in 4mm there are issues with the size of these. These days it is possible to get magnetic strip material which can be cut into small pieces. If steel wire (staples?) are used as the lamp irons, could a small magnet actually see a secure attachment for any particular train. Perhaps 3D printed lamps could incorporate a small cavity for the magnet strip to be glued in?

 

The pictures of the various bogie wheels convince me that the replacements are so much better than those supplied. It surely is a "must do" modification.

 

Martin Long

Martin, I have experimented with micromagnets glued into recesses in the lamps (4 mm scale). The experiments were promising and I plan to go that way on my full fleet in due course. The magnets are 1 mm diameter x 0.5 mm thick. I got them from the Super Magnet Man in the USA: https://supermagnetman.com/collections/neo-discs/products/d0105-nickel?variant=11410254659 (usual disclaimer). If you are only buying small quantities you can ask him to use ordinary mail as otherwise the cost becomes prohibitive. I've got some photos at home which I can post later.

 

Regarding the wheels, to be perfectly frank and honest (which I know is what Tony would expect) I can't see enough difference myself to make the purchase and fitting of new wheels worthwhile. If the number of spokes were different that might be another story.

[Tony Wright]

Sir! Sir! I'm not arguing sir, but isn't Stoke summit's only claim that it is the highest point of the ECML in England. Penmanshiel (definitely on the ECML) is apparently slightly higher above sea level.

Thanks, but are you sure?

 

If so, I've learned something new today.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[grahame]

The loco is a focal point on a train; nothing like that is available in a MU, so which bit gets the name?

 

For some maybe, but for others the complete train is the focus, especially Shinkansen bullet trains, Eurostars, Pendolinos, Brighton Belles and so on.

 

The whole unit is named, while the plate can be fitted anywhere, power car, driving car, or whatever, it doesn't really matter.

 

G.

[jamie92208]

I wish I could find the detail of this concerning the LNWR (who were normally averse to double-heading), but it's archived somewhere.  Anyway, after some management nonsense had been promulgated to the disgruntlement of staff, the said manager was known to be travelling from Euston.  As it happens he had a locomotive named after him, and so the shed staff provided that one and also the pilot engine (both were Claughton's I think).  The manager went to inspect the locos and found the pairing of "Vindictive" and then his own name.

 

 

Given the nature of the line they ran, on any jumpers would have been thoroughly out of sorts, the only obstacle after London being Stoke Bump.

 

I think it was actually Sir Charles Cust who IIRC was the Comptroller of the royal Household and who had caused all sorts of problems connected with the running of the Royal Train up to Scotland. According to O S Nock, in Steam Railway in Retrospect, the whole thing was masterminded by Webb who was on the platform to meet Cust when he walked up to the engines.   Apparently he actually saw the funny side of it and relationships improved after the incident.

 

Jamie

Edited February 8, 2018 by jamie92208

[Buhar]

I think it was actually Sir Charles Cust who IIRC was the Comptroller of the royal Household and who had caused all sorts of problems connected with the running of the Royal Train up to Scotland. According to O S Nock, in Steam Railway in Retrospect, the whole thing was masterminded by Webb who was on the platform to meet Cust when he walked up to the engines. Apparently he actually saw the funny side of it and relationships improved after the incident.

 

Jamie

Thanks Jamie. As M&W would say, "I was close!"

[Tony Wright]

Martin, I have experimented with micromagnets glued into recesses in the lamps (4 mm scale). The experiments were promising and I plan to go that way on my full fleet in due course. The magnets are 1 mm diameter x 0.5 mm thick. I got them from the Super Magnet Man in the USA: https://supermagnetman.com/collections/neo-discs/products/d0105-nickel?variant=11410254659 (usual disclaimer). If you are only buying small quantities you can ask him to use ordinary mail as otherwise the cost becomes prohibitive. I've got some photos at home which I can post later.

 

Regarding the wheels, to be perfectly frank and honest (which I know is what Tony would expect) I can't see enough difference myself to make the purchase and fitting of new wheels worthwhile. If the number of spokes were different that might be another story.

I wouldn't expect anything but honesty and frankness..........................

 

Otherwise, what's the point of discussions, here, or anywhere?

 

 

original Hornby.

 

 

Markits' replacements.

 

 

The real thing.........

 

The striking light has given an impression of the wheel rims being polished, which they're not; the loco is just ex-works. 

 

The big differences between the two model wheels, and there's more than enough difference to me, is the shape of the spokes, the size of the flange and the width of the tread; the Markits ones being far more realistic. Of course, neither are really realistic (is that tautology?). To do that, you'd have to adopt P4!

[chris p bacon]

Another from the late Nigel Hunt.

 

This time a GNR D2 (?) possibly built from a London Road kit

 

img153.jpg

 

..and a couple of coaches to go with it! Probably D&S.

 

img164.jpg

 

Lovely John.

I doubt it's a LRM kit as the D2 is a recent addition.

 

There was a WM kit IIRC, although I've no idea of manufacturer.

[micklner]

I wouldn't expect anything but honesty and frankness..........................

 

Otherwise, what's the point of discussions, here, or anywhere?

 

Hornby A4 Sparrow Hawk R2721.jpg

 

original Hornby.

 

Hornby Sparrow Hawk weathered.jpg

 

Markits' replacements.

 

A4 60023 small.jpg

 

The real thing.........

 

The striking light has given an impression of the wheel rims being polished, which they're not; the loco is just ex-works. 

 

The big differences between the two model wheels, and there's more than enough difference to me, is the shape of the spokes, the size of the flange and the width of the tread; the Markits ones being far more realistic. Of course, neither are really realistic (is that tautology?). To do that, you'd have to adopt P4!

 

Sorry I won't use them , the main reasons other than derailing , being how do you match the colours of Hornby's version of A4 Drivers LNER  Red ? I have never seen anything even remotely similar. The next problem is I don't have the skill to line out Apple Green wheels and wouldn't pretend otherwise .  Neither of the last two reasons a problem to anyone using Plain Black !!.

[Andrew P]

I wouldn't expect anything but honesty and frankness..........................

 

Otherwise, what's the point of discussions, here, or anywhere?

 

Hornby A4 Sparrow Hawk R2721.jpg

 

original Hornby.

 

Hornby Sparrow Hawk weathered.jpg

 

Markits' replacements.

 

A4 60023 small.jpg

 

The real thing.........

 

The striking light has given an impression of the wheel rims being polished, which they're not; the loco is just ex-works. 

 

The big differences between the two model wheels, and there's more than enough difference to me, is the shape of the spokes, the size of the flange and the width of the tread; the Markits ones being far more realistic. Of course, neither are really realistic (is that tautology?). To do that, you'd have to adopt P4!

Sorry Tony, I hit the C/C button instead of the I/U button to begin with.