Wright writes.....

[Willie Whizz]

Thanks Jonathan,

 

I replaced the handles on the triplet set I built recently. That, of course, had heavy-duty replacement white metal bogies.

 

I think these old Kirkies look better in teak than they do in maroon (and certainly in carmine/cream) because the thick window reveals aren't as noticeable, or, at least, not in my view. 

 

I suppose if someone were to reintroduce the range they'd sell well. As reported earlier, un-built triplet sets sell on ebay for well in excess of £100.00. I find this weird, because a Comet triplet is probably less than that. However, folk fight shy of making things in brass if there's something in plastic available.

 

Do you know who has the moulds at the moment? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Tony, there is a (locked) thread pinned at the head of the 'Smaller Suppliers' thread of RMWeb which (though quite lengthy and getting repetitive towards the end), taken as a whole, will explain the current position; the reasons why, it appears, the range is physically as well as financially unlikely to put-in a reappearance; the spurning of offers of assistance and support; and the frustrations of modellers who have tried to purchase these kits from the current owner's website which - it is alleged - allows him to take the money for goods he cannot supply and then ignore all requests to refund.

 

It's a very sad story, because I do believe that even in these days of far better (though not perfect) Hornby Gresley carriages than were available when the range was at its height, there is sufficient demand for them to sell quite well if they were properly produced and marketed.  It is a pity they never fell into the hands of someone like Peco.

[thegreenhowards]

 

 

Does anyone else have examples of them, please? 

 

Tony,

 

I have lots of Kirks. My favourite rake is probably the quad arts, which I brought to visit LB a couple of years ago. Here's a link to your photos.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64295-wright-writes/?p=2296759

 

Apart from them, I have a triplet which forms the catering for a Newcastle rake in the middle of a rake of Mark 1s. It's fairly standard Kirk, but with MJT heavy duty bogies.

 

 

I also have a rake which is almost entirely Kirk. This is intended to be an excursion/ relief rake and is formed mainly of Kirk end vestibule TKs but with a Kirk BTO and BTK at the ends and a MJT on Hornby donor CK. The catering is formed by the 12 wheel Kitchen car which I brought to LB a couple of weeks ago and two RTOs, one MJT on Hornby and the MTK one ex Stoke Summit, presumably the same one which you featured above. On the Kirks, some have standard Kirk underpinnings, but some have been upgraded to an MJT underframe.

 

 

Hope these are of interest.

 

Andy

[Jon4470]

Hello Tony

 

I have a couple of Kirk coaches. Below is a photo of one of them - a third class convertible sleeper. It has MJT underframes and bogies. It is still awaiting some weathering......one day! (It could do with some track to run on as well!!)

 

Jon

 

[31A]

I've made quite a lot, but not taken pictures of many.  Here's a TK:

 

 

One of my more recently built ones; I packed out the upper panels with 10 thou Plastikard to reduce the apparent thickness of the beading.  It has MJT gangways and ventilators, but otherwise more or less 'out of the packet'.

[St Enodoc]

Thanks Tony,

 

I’ve now looked up the reference in your book which is helpful, but the Viessmanns are quite expensive, especially once you add on MSE parts. Would they be suitable for motorising Ratio signals, or are they too fragile for motorisation?

 

I’m going to start with a couple of Dapol SR lattice signals which look very good. I’ll see how that goes, and then I might try something more adventurous.

 

Andy

My experience is limited to a single Viessmann motor that I acquired for evaluation. I think that you will find it fine for operating Ratio signals. Any form of slow action actuator should be OK for them. It's snap actions such as solenoids provide that the Ratio kits don't like.

 

Although the Viessmanns on LB are mounted horizontally, if they are mounted vertically they take up very little room.

 

I did find that the cap where the wires go into the body came loose, which upset the damping function. I managed to fix that and secured the cap with a dab of glue.

 

Why don't I use them? Simply cost. I now use memory wire actuators built using Bic Clic pen barrels and springs. Unfortunately, memory wire is not as easy to get as it used to be. There was a supplier in Belgium who retired when his industrial supply dried up, so I would hesitate to recommend the method now unless you have access to the wire itself.

[Woodcock29]

Hello Tony

 

Attached are photos of 3 of my Kirks built back in the 80s so they're all > 30 years old. Two and half trains of these still make up the bulk of my LNER gangwayed stock.

 

Please ignore the couplings (!) a sign of the times and in fact still in use in the rakes, after all you can't really see them between the carriages.

 

The Rest 1st and the Compo are slightly later builds of mine and have had the window edges squared up as suggested above. The comp is meant to represent a coach that has not been to works for quite some time and has considerably darkened with the weather getting into the teak.

 

One trick I used to do on these was to round off the domed roof ends a bit more to reduce the visuals of the extra height of the roof shown by the steepness of the curves. 

 

Andrew

[AndyID]

It is still awaiting some weathering......one day!

 

Please don't. It's much too nice to be weathered!

[Tony Wright]

Thanks for all the pictures of the Kirk Gresleys. Some outstanding modelling there!

 

If nothing else, they all show how much better they are (despite the deep windows) than Hornby's gangwayed Gresleys. Such a shame that these weren't right. I would have acquired dozens. As it is, I only use them as donors.

[polybear]

Why don't I use them? Simply cost. I now use memory wire actuators built using Bic Clic pen barrels and springs. Unfortunately, memory wire is not as easy to get as it used to be. There was a supplier in Belgium who retired when his industrial supply dried up, so I would hesitate to recommend the method now unless you have access to the wire itself.

 

Is this the same/similar?  I've not tried it - just a Google Search:

 

https://www.robotshop.com/en/flexinol-en.html

[Clem]

Tony, another simple improvement is to have a close look at the window apertures. You will note that they have a draft built in to help remove from the moulds. This does not help the visible thickness of the sides.

 

Assuming you have not painted the coach yet, file out the window apertures to remove the draft.

 

Left as supplied, right after treatment:

kirksides.JPG

 

The right hand coach has also had the moulded draft removed from the top of the sides and a strip of styrene added to make the sides taller then fitted with a MJT roof. The MJT roof makes the coach appear less top heavy.

 

Fitting the MJT roof completely changes to appearance of the ends as can be seen here. The original moulded ends are simply filled with filler (and not very well either):

kirkends.JPG

 

Hi Mike,

That's a big improvement. However, up until now I've used the draft to fit individual windows from the front (a method it seems, which is also by Mr. drmdtch above) and that also helps the look of it by bringing the surface of the perspex closer to the front. Like you, I also use the MJT roofs.  One thing I haven't tried though,  is to add the extra height using your idea of of a styrene strip at the top. If I may ask, is that a 1mm x 1mm strip that you've used? 

 

Clem

[MikeTrice]

Hi Mike,

That's a big improvement. However, up until now I've used the draft to fit individual windows from the front (a method it seems, which is also by Mr. drmdtch above) and that also helps the look of it by bringing the surface of the perspex closer to the front. Like you, I also use the MJT roofs.  One thing I haven't tried though,  is to add the extra height using your idea of of a styrene strip at the top. If I may ask, is that a 1mm x 1mm strip that you've used? 

 

Clem

From memory 30thou strip.

[Three Cocks Junction]

I've just had a request for information about Essendine South signal box. 

 

In the spirit of asking questions on this thread, can anyone help with pictures or references, please? I have none immediately to hand.

 

In my days of taking Modern Railways, I seem to recall a picture shot at Essendine of a new Brush Type 4 passing the 'box on a freight train. It would be sometime in 1963.  

 

Thanks in anticipation. 

 

I have certain information about Essendine South box, which might not be what is wanted. I have no photos and nothing about the structure of the box.

 

What, then, is it that the inquirer wants to know?

[juke]

Hello Tony

 

Attached are photos of 3 of my Kirks built back in the 80s so they're all > 30 years old. Two and half trains of these still make up the bulk of my LNER gangwayed stock.

 

Please ignore the couplings (!) a sign of the times and in fact still in use in the rakes, after all you can't really see them between the carriages.

 

The Rest 1st and the Compo are slightly later builds of mine and have had the window edges squared up as suggested above. The comp is meant to represent a coach that has not been to works for quite some time and has considerably darkened with the weather getting into the teak.

 

One trick I used to do on these was to round off the domed roof ends a bit more to reduce the visuals of the extra height of the roof shown by the steepness of the curves. 

 

Andrew

These Kirks look to me to have less of a turnunder than many others. From what I've read (I'm very far from knowledgeable!) these seem to match the real coaches more accurately? Beautiful anyway.

 

 

Syd

[St Enodoc]

Is this the same/similar?  I've not tried it - just a Google Search:

 

https://www.robotshop.com/en/flexinol-en.html

It looks similar but there are several different types. When I get home at the weekend I'll check the spec of the stuff I use. It will be good if it is available easily again.

[jwealleans]

Bit late to the party, but this is now I build my Kirk carriages - I use the sides and ends and (usually) the roof but not much else.

 

 

This example uses the Kirk floor and ABS bogies - now I'd make the floor from Paxolin (so I can solder the underframe bits on) and use MJT bogies. The ABS ones, which were excellent, can only currently be found second hand.

 

I cut the roofs in half and reattach them - the material you lose in the cut is usually what you need to to prevent them being overlength.

Edited December 18, 2018 by jwealleans

[The Stationmaster]

Wonderful Mike,

 

Thanks for posting.

 

Bay Platform Number 11 at Chester General. Am I right? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Spot on Tony,  The native Castrian Cestrian will find some more pics which might be of interest here (Post No.16) -

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/67059-the-stationmaster-goes-train-spotting-part-2/

 

And one hidden away in Post No.59 in this thread -

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/66924-the-stationmaster-goes-train-spotting-part-1/page-3?hl=%20ths%20%20stationmaster%20%20goes%20%20train%20%20spotting

 

Edited to correct my ignorance of those originating from or resident in Chester (or not visiting Specsavers before reading BRILL?)

Edited December 19, 2018 by The Stationmaster

[Steamport Southport]

You can still pick up most of the Ian Kirk carriages for a reasonable price if you look for them. I've bought approximately 20 over the last couple of years for between £10 and £20. The higher figure only if it's the version with wheels included.

 

However it's the special carriages that go for silly money. Things like Restaurant Cars, Buffet, Sleepers and Artics. Probably because there isn't a RTR alternative. The Mailcoach range also seem to fetch ridiculous prices.

 

None have been built yet as the ER isn't a priority at the moment.

 

 

 

Jason

[Arun Sharma]

Spot on Tony,  The native Castrian will find some more pics which might be of interest here (Post No.16) -

 

 

Mike - Is a native Castrian actually a Cestrian who speaks with a high pitched voice?

[westerner]

As usual this thread moves at such a pace that at times it's difficult to keep up. However I'm there now, whilst not coaches a couple of Kirk kits the 50ft and 64ft BGs.

 

 

 

Both built (constructed?) well before Hornby introduced the 64 footer. I wouldn't swap it for a Hornby one, as Tony often says, "I built it"

[jwealleans]

The Kirk BG is a good route into building these kits and can also be adapted to many variants. This is a former ECJS underframe rebuilt as a BG. I think it's 58' - there are two fewer panels in the middle section. The (scratchbuilt) trussing is different, but the rest is very much like the others.

 

 

A very easy kitbash to start with. Roy Mears has done one with a bowstring underframe (I think rebuilt from an NER or ECJS sleeping car) which we used on Grantham at the last show. Sadly I don't have a picture of that one but I'm sure it will be on view at Stevenage.

Edited December 18, 2018 by jwealleans

[Tony Wright]

Spot on Tony,  The native Castrian will find some more pics which might be of interest here (Post No.16) -

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/67059-the-stationmaster-goes-train-spotting-part-2/

 

And one hidden away in Post No.59 in this thread -

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/66924-the-stationmaster-goes-train-spotting-part-1/page-3?hl=%20ths%20%20stationmaster%20%20goes%20%20train%20%20spotting

Thanks Mike,

 

Great stuff!

 

And, it's Cestrian, not Castrian (both names seem slightly odd in today's language).

 

The Black Five on the freight (on the Down WR lines, though by '63, all was LMR at Chester) is actually crossing the Roodee Viaduct - the Dee girder bridge is well behind the train. The Roodee is Chester's racecourse, the oldest in the realm. The 'box to the right is Crane Street, which was switched-out on Sundays. You were standing on The Walls to get this shot, with the Infirmary behind you. I lived less than ten minutes' walk from here.

 

The shots in the General are particularly interesting, especially that Thompson semi-corridor lavatory composite behind the Brit's tender. And, those wonderful L&NWR lower quadrants. Chester had the last working ones of those. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

I have certain information about Essendine South box, which might not be what is wanted. I have no photos and nothing about the structure of the box.

 

What, then, is it that the inquirer wants to know?

It's a request via a third party for photographs of Essendine South Signal Box. The request is for a retired signalman, now in his '80s, who used to work in the 'box. 

 

Oddly enough, when Ian Wilson and I were contemplating building a prototype ECML model in these parts, Essendine was our first choice. However, with a footprint of 'only' 32' x 12' (absolute maximum) to work with, no matter how hard Ian tried, we were up against the 'barrier' which neither of us could accept - namely far-too-sharp curves in the scenic section. Fitting in the two south-facing branches was not a problem (we were going to cheat history and assume the Bourne branch closed at the same time as the Stamford branch, along with the station, in 1959), but tight scenic radii are something that the ECML in this part of the world doesn't have. The Bourne-Stamford road overbridge would have made a half-decent scenic break at the north end (though Ian included the further-north occupation bridge as well in one scheme), but going on/off-scene at the south end proved hopelessly unrealistic. A pity, because the station at Essendine was more interesting than at LB, with much greater operational potential and with more sidings. Not only that, there were two 'boxes and watering facilities (which LB doesn't have). 

 

And, as well, we could have legitimately run these pieces of loco antiquity................

 

 

This is an old Wills C12, started by Ian Wilson. I made the chassis, completed the body and painted it. 

 

 

This is the Craftsman equivalent, built and painted by me. The transfer lining on both these locos is not in the same class as Mr Rathbone's work, nor that of Mr. Haynes. However, Tom Foster has weathered them to perfection, and I must take further photos. 

 

 

The nearer N5 is a Millholme kit, started by Ian Wilson. I completed the body and built the chassis, painted and weathered it. The further N5 is a SE Finecast kit, built/painted/weathered by me. 

 

All these locos are Ian's property, acquired through barter. I'm still puzzled when I see model locos of these classes still with 12-spoke bogie and pony wheels. A bit too NE I think. 

 

Both types worked the Stamford-Essendine branch (the older N5s lasting until the end), and were serviced at New England on a weekly basis. Is it beyond the realms of possibility, that, for a time, New England was a bit busy, and they were serviced at Grantham? It's just about equidistant. Thus, a light engine C12 or N5 bowling through LB? Surely it happened - once? Or twice?

Edited December 18, 2018 by Tony Wright

[Bucoops]

Built around 20 years ago - uses the plastic bogies. Underframe the basic one, no idea why I didn't put battery boxes on. Roof has yellowed somewhat. I would have been mid to late teens when I built it.

 

 

 

[grahame]

Here's another Gresley FB. It's an N gauge one that I built from a NGS kit about ten years ago now:

 

 

G.

[Woodcock29]

C12s one of my favourite locos!

 

Below are photos of one I'm building at the moment which will become 4525, based at Louth in the late 30s for our new exhibition layout to be based on Spilsby. A Craftsman kit, obtained secondhand and part built (about 10%). I had to remove the w/m bunker top parts to fit them on square and in fact to remove the front part of the RHS piece and add a new piece to extend it as it was shorter than the LHS.

 

The key issue I think with the Craftsman kit is that the cab top doesn't have a flat enough roof and that the sides of the cab top are therefore not quite high enough. However, I wasn't sufficiently minded to try to make a new one and get it all nice and square with the cutouts.

 

I have added quite a bit of extra detail. It has replacement smokebox door, short chimney and dome, safety valves and whistle - all from LRM. I have added the plate wind shields to the sides of the cab cuts as well as the rain strip over the beading on the top of the cutouts. I have left off the rear steps on the bunker as a lot of photos show these not to have been fitted. I have fitted the step on the LHS side of the bunker and the small angled handrail to the rear of the cab cutout. It has sprung tapered buffers from my spares box for the front and Gibson GN parallel buffers on the rear. I have also fitted the vacuum pipe along the RHS valance and the steam heat pipe along the LHS valence. It also has injectors made from modified Mainly Trains J52 injectors (now available from Andrew H at Wizard) below the rear of the cab.

 

My next challenge is to teach myself to use a bow pen and a Bob Moore lining pen so I can line it in red - I have used a bow pen before some years ago but need to refine my skills. When its finished it I have another to build which first of all means stripping down a model I was given by a mate that has been glued together! That one will have tall chimney and dome and be No 4537, based at Boston. That will be the fourth Craftsman C12 I've built as I built my first one back about 1979 (4507) - my first brass kit and another (4513) about 2002 for a mate who has modelled Nottingham Victoria.

 

Also posted below is my Millholme N5 No 5945. This model is based on one of the last 6 built which were the only ones to have snap head rivetted tanks and bunker. If I may point out Tony - the two you have shown should have the rivetted tanks and bunkers which are quite distinctive (the SEF one appears not to have rivets in the photo?). The Millholme kit is only suited to one of the last 6 with the countersunk rivets but I understand that SE Finecast actually make brass overlays with rivets for its N5 but I think these need to be purchased separately?

 

The comparison between the two is quite interesting - the boiler is pitched a lot higher on the SEF model. Perusing photos and a drawing by Reddy in Sept 1970 RM indicate the pitch of the Millholme boiler is close to the mark. However, it does appear to be a few mm short at the front end ahead of the smokebox.

 

Andrew

Edited December 19, 2018 by Woodcock29