Chris-GNR Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 The Facebook page on Tony's article is quite amusing.... Evening Any chance of a link to the FB page? Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted January 11, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 11, 2019 Each to there own as they say. Isn't it all about doing what you want to do, to a standard that your are happy with? Baz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Evening Any chance of a link to the FB page? Thanks. https://m.facebook.com/groups/137680486384860?view=permalink&id=1213235712162660 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-GNR Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 https://m.facebook.com/groups/137680486384860?view=permalink&id=1213235712162660 Many thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atso Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Many thanks. 326 comments and growing, I'd pour myself a large glass of wine/beer/whatever takes your fancy before settling down to read. I think one thing is for certain, it is definitely a talking point! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom F Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 (edited) 326 comments and growing, I'd pour myself a large glass of wine/beer/whatever takes your fancy before settling down to read. I think one thing is for certain, it is definitely a talking point!Make it a large one Atso....you are going to need it! Interesting, all the venom in that FB thread, but would any come over to talk to Tony at a show? I doubt it! Mob mentality at its best! Edited January 11, 2019 by 9793 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrovich Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 326 comments and growing, I'd pour myself a large glass of wine/beer/whatever takes your fancy before settling down to read. I think one thing is for certain, it is definitely a talking point! All I have to say after having a peruse of said 326 comments I am unsurprised how many have been written without thought and just immediate comment. I am back to this earlier comment of mine on this wonderful thread which is if someone disagrees they should go away and see if they can see the point of view expressed by the author and judge from a balanced voice not one of immediate hostility and sense of reasoning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 I must admit, I did debate whether to comment on the Facebook page but decided not to bother.... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom F Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 All I have to say after having a peruse of said 326 comments I am unsurprised how many have been written without thought and just immediate comment. I am back to this earlier comment of mine on this wonderful thread which is if someone disagrees they should go away and see if they can see the point of view expressed by the author and judge from a balanced voice not one of immediate hostility and sense of reasoning. It was also interesting how many had not in fact read the article, and in some cases had no idea who Tony was, but still felt it their place to pass judgement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBAGE Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 It was also interesting how many had not in fact read the article, and in some cases had no idea who Tony was, but still felt it their place to pass judgement. I suppose passing judgement based only on personal opinion. Sounds familiar. But I suppose I should take care, lest I be accused of being a heretic. It's a funny old topic. By funny, I don't mean humorous. Unfollow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigw Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) It is just worth clarifying, that the facebook group in question is not connected with the magazine BRM, rather it is just a group called 'British Railway Modelling'. I'lll be honest, I read the comments and wasn't surprised....in fact I sort of find it amusing that so many appear 'offended' by someone else's opinion. I picked up RM, and I thought it was an excellent article Tony. Sadly, many who are upset do not seem to grasp the concept Railway and Modelling. If anything though, today has brought me to the conclusion that the hobby is not a broad church, instead I would argue that the concept of plonking a RTR loco out of its box on RTR track with no personalisation at all......is not the same hobby as mine. If that brings you enjoyment, that is great! However please do not be offended if you read something that doesn't sit in your comfort zone. What i found odd with many of the comments on the Facebook group was that so many of the "offended" seemed to take delight in being abusive and downright nasty towards a different opinion. That and throwing the term "rivet counter" around with gay abandon. It is a funny world we live in. Regards, Craig W Edited January 12, 2019 by Craigw 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atso Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) What i found odd with many of the comments on the Facebook group was that so many of the "offended" seemed to take delight in being abusive and downright nasty towards a different opinion. That and throwing the term "rivet counter" around with gay abandon. It isa funny world we live in. Regards, Craig W I couldn't agree more with you. Interestingly there was another similar discussion on another forum yesterday. The level number of pretty offensive statements by 'the offended' was staggering. What was the original offending remark? In response to somebody saying I would like xyz to be produced rtr: There is a kit available for that. Edited January 12, 2019 by Atso Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted January 12, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 12, 2019 https://m.facebook.com/groups/137680486384860?view=permalink&id=1213235712162660 can only read one comment as it won't show any others, how do you get it to display? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted January 12, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 12, 2019 What's this Facebook thing that people mention.... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atso Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) What's this Facebook thing that people mention.... Something that, even as a frequent user, I think is quite possibly the work of Satan when it is at its worst. Edited January 12, 2019 by Atso 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Alder Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 Something that, even as a frequent user, I think is quite possibly the work of Satan when it is at its worst. The reaction to Tony's thoughts, on both sides of the debate and different media, is interesting and illuminative and one that is becoming apparent in many fields. There is a growing divide in, generally, generations in their approach to information and communication with regard to their, in this case, hobby interests, with far more input than quite recently going into You Tube and Face Book than was the case. There is a tranche of modellers out there who do not regard a forum set up as the way to communicate, far less paper magazines, and their ideas and reactions are in many ways configured by interactions on the same media for other subjects, where instant commentary, and often denigration, are the norm. The world is changing rapidly in this respect and I suspect attention span is one of the casualties - certainly several of the responses made it clear they were not interested in research or background knowledge. There is no point in analysing the myriad different takes on this hobby - done to death repeatedly before - but the respondents appear to enjoy their approach to modelling, in its widest sense, and for that I would hesitate to pass too much criticism on them, but then I am of a generation that did not grow up expecting the world to share my expressed opinion. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 ... throwing the term "rivet counter" around with gay abandon. Perhaps we should be careful how we use this expression in future! Chris 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted January 12, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 12, 2019 I had a quick glance at some of the comments..people need to get a life and do some modelling is all I would say... Baz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lecorbusier Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 - but the respondents appear to enjoy their approach to modelling, in its widest sense, and for that I would hesitate to pass too much criticism on them, but then I am of a generation that did not grow up expecting the world to share my expressed opinion. I suspect it is more to do with communication methods than it is generational or specific to a given strata of people. In the past people were happy to be extreme/rude (irate of Tonbridge Wells) when hiding behind the screen of a letter ....where there was no personal contact. Equally things can get quite judgemental within private groups where there is a consensus of opinion - though here the object of ire is rarely aware of the attack. However, face to face or to some extent through the direct contact of the telephone a more tolerant/conciliatory atmosphere generally prevails. One first tries to understand rather than immediately jump to defence. I would argue that this began to change with the advent of email - people started making impulsive and more extreme responses that would certainly have required a girding of the loins and a deep breath if done face to face .... effectively hiding behind the keyboard. We have a rule in our office that any strongly worded e-mail response has to be read by at least one other professional and should not be sent for 24 hours (a cooling off period). Forums have exacerbated this situation as comments can be passed in both anonymity and with no danger of ever having to meet the person. Add into this mix the disingenuous and the trolls and you have a volatile environment. Furthermore, the method of communication is very two dimensional meaning the subtleties of inflection and irony can be easily lost - it is open to misinterpretation and indeed misrepresentation. To some extent the development of Imojis is an attempt to address this. For all their limitations and problems I am still a fan of forums as they allow a connection and method of communication that can be very fulfilling and create links that would otherwise never exist. I suppose, as with all things, they are what you choose to make of them. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibateg Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 I think my greatest accolade is when Tony described one of my models as sh*te. I haven't looked back since! It's all very well being a keyboard warrior online, but people should talk to Tony face to face, our conversations are usually informative, entertaining and thank god:- irreverent! Like most modellers - he'll help anyone. There was one FB comment: 'Has he built any layouts?' NO! - his mates have flippin built them! But many great layouts are a collaboration of effort, and mutual inspiration... Anyway - I learnt a lot from Tony - even how useful flux is.... Tony 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drmditch Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 Perhaps we should be careful how we use this expression in future! Chris Careful - I haven't unpacked my Hornby 'Gay Crusader' yet. (But that's because I've got another RTR model to modify first.) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chamby Posted January 12, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 12, 2019 ...people should talk to Tony face to face, our conversations are usually informative, entertaining and thank god:- irreverent! Like most modellers - he'll help anyone.... I agree with you wholeheartedly! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) I had a quick glance at some of the comments..people need to get a life and do some modelling is all I would say... Yes, but the snag is that many of these people don’t want to do any constructive modelling, say they can’t, won’t and are not prepared to put in any time learning and developing modelling skills. For them railway modelling is not about trying to replicate the real railway and make things, but is more about un-packing boxes and playing. And that’s fair enough if they enjoy it. For me the problem is how they unpleasantly round upon anyone who has the temerity to suggest that, when they moan that something they want is not available RTR, that they could build a kit of it that is available. Often, they denigrate and vilify those that do make things usually accompanied by unpleasant name calling like ‘rivet counter’, ‘purist’ and ‘elitist’ or, as I noted on that facebook thread something new to me, ‘grass blade counter’. And, of course, there is the round of excuses or reasons, often expressed aggressively, as to why they won’t do some constructive modelling, like a lack of time, inability, failing eyesight and so on. There are many people on this thread who use and modify RTR products in their efforts to build a model railway or as a short cut to achieving what they want, but generally they don’t cause a conflagration about the differences and flame people who don’t. Perhaps it’s best not to poke the fire. G Edited January 12, 2019 by grahame 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBAGE Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 Yes, but the snag is that many of these people don’t want to do any constructive modelling, say they can’t, won’t and are not prepared to put in any time learning and developing modelling skills. For them railway modelling is not about trying to replicate the real railway and make things, but is more about un-packing boxes and playing. And that’s fair enough if they enjoy it. For me the problem is how they unpleasantly round upon anyone who has the temerity to suggest that, when they moan that something they want is not available RTR, that they could build a kit of it that is available. Often, they denigrate and vilify those that do make things usually accompanied by unpleasant name calling like ‘rivet counter’, ‘purist’ and ‘elitist’ or, as I noted on that facebook thread something new to me, ‘grass blade counter’. And, of course, there is the round of excuses or reasons, often expressed aggressively, as to why they won’t do some constructive modelling, like a lack of time, inability, failing eyesight and so on. There are many people on this thread who use and modify RTR products in their efforts to build a model railway or as a short cut to achieving what they want, but generally they don’t cause a conflagration about the differences and flame people who don’t. Perhaps it’s best not to poke the fire. G It's one thing to poke the fire but please remind yourself about who lit the fire. And lets be honest with ourselves, the fire was lit with the clear intention that it would be poked. That was it's sole purpose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 60027Merlin Posted January 12, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) I understand that the Railway Modeller’s circulation increased a couple of months ago after the TV Model Railway series. No doubt the same has happened this month with all the Facebook publicity. This will certainly assist them in boosting their advertising revenue. Perhaps Tony is now already fighting off a myriad of magazine editors beating a path to his door requesting his services? (Make sure you get good fees Tony) Edited January 12, 2019 by 60027Merlin 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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