Wright writes.....

[bbishop]

Good evening all

 

 

With that I have now finished and thank you for your time.

 

Regards to all

 

John

 

John,

 

No, please join in.  What you wrote was interesting.  We are allowed to wander along any highway or byway until "Sir" brings us into line.

 

Bill

[AndyID]

Only forty. Peanuts!

I do have a few that were purchased new for two bob about sixty years ago

[Doncaster Green]

John,

 

No, please join in.  What you wrote was interesting.  We are allowed to wander along any highway or byway until "Sir" brings us into line.

 

Bill

I fully intend to Bill. It’s just I was feeling guilty about the length of my posts. Even 50 years after ‘O’ levels I have difficulty differentiating between “write a brief summary of” and “write a 1000 word essay on”. In the time to read my post Mr Wright has probably built at least a couple of A3s and maybe anA2/2 as well!

 

John

[Atso]

I fully intend to Bill. It’s just I was feeling guilty about the length of my posts. Even 50 years after ‘O’ levels I have difficulty differentiating between “write a brief summary of” and “write a 1000 word essay on”. In the time to read my post Mr Wright has probably built at least a couple of A3s and maybe anA2/2 as well!

John

I wouldn't worry John, I'm much the same (although it's only been 22 years since I sat my GCSEs). Please do keep posting your modelling (especially the 2mm Gresleys!) and your thoughts and opinions.

[96701]

I do have a few that were purchased new for two bob about sixty years ago

Presflos are still my favourites of the Airfix wagons, indeed I still have an unbuilt Dapol version. My later Airfix wagons have proprietary axles running in pinpoint bearings 'sweated' into the Airfix axleboxes with a soldering iron. A method that I came up with all by myself, only to discover much later in life that others had used the same method. Does that make it the correct elitist method?

[Clem]

Back from band practice....

 

"I have to say what's happened of late has really opened my (perhaps naive) eyes. It really does make me think 'what's the point?' Why should anyone seek to help others, encourage model-making, insist on accuracy and good practice, if what comes back from some quarters is vitriolic? Who needs this? I have dozens of kits to build, loads of pictures to take and (prototype) books to write. " (Tony Wright)

 

Tony, my strong belief is that you should not let the critics change your didactic approach. I can't imagine how many people have benefitted from your help and encouragement over the years. I know I have and significantly. And just by hosting this thread, many others have joined in with the knowledge sharing and mutual support. 

 

I felt I had to reply to Tony's post above but now I think I've said enough on this topic... back to doing some modelling :-)

Edited January 16, 2019 by Clem

[Porcy Mane]

Only forty. Peanuts!

 

I wonder where me and thee stand in the pecking order of having unbuild Airfix kits.

 

I  know a man that frequents herabouts that bought up the entire Airfix stock of a model shop in Leicester on its demise.

 

I think he has more cattle wagons (although most remain unbuilt) than BR ever did. I think he tops that particular hierarchy.

 

P

[Headstock]

Clem is absolutely right, I add my support and best wishes.

Edited January 17, 2019 by Headstock

[nerron]

At the age of 63 (64 on 06/02/55 - goodness me I'm lucky) I still have not managed what some would term a kit built loco, not even a functioning 0-6-0 chassis, mind you, I have significantly altered some ready to run stuff, so I feel quite good about some stuff that I've done, but I just don't have the wherewithal to risk my cash on a steam loco kit. I'm hoping to start with a GT3, at least it is a 4-6-0, not a ready to run Bo-Bo or Co-Co which are within my comfort zone.

I too would feel lucky if I lived to 128.  

[petrovich]

Back from band practice....

 

"I have to say what's happened of late has really opened my (perhaps naive) eyes. It really does make me think 'what's the point?' Why should anyone seek to help others, encourage model-making, insist on accuracy and good practice, if what comes back from some quarters is vitriolic? Who needs this? I have dozens of kits to build, loads of pictures to take and (prototype) books to write. " (Tony Wright)

 

Tony, my strong belief is that you should not let the critics change your didactic approach. I can't imagine how many people have benefitted from your help and encouragement over the years. I know I have and significantly. And just by hosting this thread, many others have joined in with the knowledge sharing and mutual support. 

 

I felt I had to reply to Tony's post above but now I think I've said enough on this topic... back to doing some modelling :-)

Totally agree Clem.

 

Life is full of the right way of doing things until you discover which is the wrong way.

 

Regards

[petrovich]

Dear RBAGE,

 

As one of those who used the word 'hierarchy' in recent posts, may I comment please?

 

You seem to imply that I could be seen as 'fuelling' elitist tendencies in the hobby. Is it 'elitist' to encourage folk to make things for themselves? Or to assist them in their model-making? Or to strive for greater accuracy?

 

Today four chaps came from the Ely club to visit and run LB. Though of 'mature' years, in some ways they're beginners at model-making. Would anyone who harbours 'elitist' thoughts offer to help them on a one-to-one basis with their model-making? The stipend? A donation to CRUK. We had a splendid day, they certainly did not feel looked down upon and are as keen as mustard to learn. Though, at the moment, they're more reliant on RTR, they really want to do things for themselves. 

 

I think there is a hierarchy in any creative hobby. Whether it's social or political, I'm not sure, but it's been my privilege to work with and for many of those who, on merit, are towards the 'top' end. These are top model-makers (in some cases the best) and there are also respected historians/authors. These are the men (and women) who've driven the hobby forward, who care about passing on skills and ensuring information is correct. It would be disingenuous of me to even consider that I might have a 'positive' effect in even a tiny way, compared with those of high stature. 

 

Yet, when one tries to put a reasoned point of view across, instead of an equally-reasoned counter-response (which I would deeply respect), some of the responses must have seen as being potentially libelous. Can you see those who encourage model-making, offer assistance and strive for greater accuracy writing in such a vituperative way? Which 'side' of the debate should be careful in how they express their points of view I wonder? 

 

I honestly believe this thread is very representative of the hobby in general. Of course, by its very nature, it'll be frequented more by those who make things rather than those who simply do nothing, or, if they do anything it's just to moan. I've learned a vast amount from it over the last few years, and I know many others have. It's encouraged others not to just be happy with what they can achieve by just opening a box, and, as I've said many times there is great merit in detailing/improving/renaming/renumbering/weathering an RTR item, as long as the person does it for themselves.

 

I have to say what's happened of late has really opened my (perhaps naive) eyes. It really does make me think 'what's the point?' Why should anyone seek to help others, encourage model-making, insist on accuracy and good practice, if what comes back from some quarters is vitriolic? Who needs this? I have dozens of kits to build, loads of pictures to take and (prototype) books to write. 

 

I wonder what some of the sternest critics (certainly not just of me) have contributed to the general hobby? I really do.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I have contributed nothing but look forward to your advice and encouragement as I expect do many others and would be very disheartened and sad if we did not have you about to add your wisdom and learned thoughts on the hobby Tony, along with the advice and encouragement of others on here.

Far too many to mention, but that is what makes this the best thread on here.

[96701]

I too would feel lucky if I lived to 128.

D'oh! I suppose, even if I were to live to 128, there would still be a plethora of unfinished 'projects'.

[Tony Wright]

Whilst you were encouraged to write an article that was almost required to be controversial, it has caused some irritation amongst those who might be not be involved in the creative side of railway modelling. More likely with those who are also not familiar with who you are or what you do. It is likely that the vast majority of railway modellers have not heard of Tony Wright. Many modellers have are not aware of RMWeb.

The type of response experienced on Facebook are not acceptable under any circumstances but the depth of feeling must be considered.

 

The word "elitist" whilst perhaps not used by you, has been used several times by contributors of late. Not unreasonably, I have linked the related sentiment of a number of contributions so to demonstrate how the suggestion of modellers are more or less important based on their approach is unhelpful. The suggestion that the position of RTR modellers might be an interesting study is worse than unhelpful.

 

My earlier post of Cleese, Barker, Corbett was intended to raise a question about a OO gauge modeller (which we both are) suggesting that we should build things and make them more accurate. Whilst some considered the sketch as humorous, it has been referred back to me as me suggesting elitism or hierarchy. The point was missed by some.

 

Your earlier response to some of my contributions rebutted my assumptions about your layout. At no time did I suggest cheque book modelling but my point was to ask if having your trackwork done by a professional any different to RTR?

 

I hope that I have made it clear elsewhere that I am not upset or offended by what has been written here or elsewhere and I hope I haven't cause any offence. I agree that we should all encourage others in the hobby but we should not suggest that the way that any of us works is the right way. Give advice and let others make their mind up.

I'll be brief, and then we'll agree to 'differ' (slightly), if that's all right?

 

I have certainly not taken offence at anything you've implied or suggested, nor, for one moment, do I expect the 'vast majority' of modellers to know who I am (though I'd be interested to know who you really are). 

 

I have never suggested that my way of doing things in the hobby is the 'right' way to anyone - it is my way, a way.However, I do think it would be wrong not to point out several 'wrong' ways. Is it wise to suggest (via a trackplan) that facing crossovers on a steam-age depiction of the S&C are correct? Is it wise to suggest that etched-brass loco kits can be superglued together - have you ever made a set of frames or rolled a boiler and then secured them with glue? Why suggest a layout is 'inspirational' when none of the (semaphore) signals work and are placed wholly incorrectly, around an unworkable trackplan? Is it wise not to include essential features like trap points guarding release from sidings on a layout built with beginners in mind? Yet, things like this have appeared in the media in recent years. Is it not wise to observe the prototype before we consider building anything? 

 

As for a professional building/laying my trackwork (scenic-side, by the way - I laid the fiddle yard and wired the lot), that was in conjunction with a DVD. And, I'm not 'just' an OO modeller. I build in EM and I've also built in O Gauge.

 

As you know, I enjoy reasoned (even robust) debate (both of which you provide, so thank you), but I think it's probably time to close this particular one, don't you? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Enterprisingwestern]

Some people listen to the wrong people.

Be yourself, life is too short.

 

Mike.

[Tony Wright]

 

There is a similar superb panned shot of 60106 "Flying Fox" in her last days by the late Colin Walker in his book "Trails of Steam Vol 6 Trails through Grantham". Taken north of Grantham on an enthusiast special. His comment states she "Flying Fox - full of years, full of steam and still full of running" !!! 

 

You need a little more blurr in the background, bit of blurr on the drivers, no smoke, no steam leaks and just a wisp of steam trailing the safety valves, crewman leaning out of window.

 

Looking at this (and other of his books) is it any wonder why so many model the East Coast main line !!!!

 

Edited to add - I've just looked at the 6 Bells junction website - the special ran on 2 May 1964

 

The Gresley Society 

London - North Eastern Flyer

Locos Used 4472 'Flying Scotsman' & 60106 'Flying Fox' Stock Used 9 coaches

Route :

Loco Route 60106 London Kings Cross - Peterborough - (via ECML) - Doncaster 4472 Doncaster - Darlington North Road 4472 Darlington Bank Top - Doncaster 60106 Doncaster - London Kings Cross

Notes :

(1) David Whittaker comments: Some very fine running made by 60106 in both directions between Doncaster and King's Cross and indeed by 4472 on the continuation to Darlington and return. On the return journey 60106 attained 94/96mph down Stoke Bank, despite checks near Essendine and  topped the climb from Grantham at 70mph. Log below is from contemporary sources.

(2) A visit was made to Darlington Works.

 

Performance Log

(from David Whittaker, from contemporary sources)

Location Scheduled

mins.secs Actual

mins.secs Peterborough 0.00 0.00 Stoke ? 22.15 Grantham 31.00 26.43 Newark 43.00 38.56 Retford 63.00 55.29 Bawtry ? 66.37 Doncaster 86.00 77.06

 

Sigs: Claypole &  Two PWS slacks

Net time  70 minutes. Min speed Stoke Summit 69mph

Max speed 86mph Claypole

 

 

 

Whow - What a day out !!!!

 

Brit15

 

The best I can do....................

 

Not FLYING FOX but an A3 with German blinkers and GNR tender.

 

It is very difficult to pan a shot of a model locomotive going at speed.

[jwealleans]

Tony, in the DVD you were playing at the weekend there were some 'walking along' shots alongside a train.  Was that Jesse with his GoPro?

[Jol Wilkinson]

"I have to say what's happened of late has really opened my (perhaps naive) eyes. It really does make me think 'what's the point?' Why should anyone seek to help others, encourage model-making, insist on accuracy and good practice, if what comes back from some quarters is vitriolic? Who needs this? I have dozens of kits to build, loads of pictures to take and (prototype) books to write. 

 

Tony. "

 

Tony,

 

I had the same question, but upon reflection suggest that the point is that we get enjoyment and satisfaction from what we do. There is also the "self interest" in keeping the more creative side of this hobby alive and well.

 

The hobby has increasingly moved towards using RTR products and away from kit building. Or perhaps better put that is has become easier, needing less input from the modeller in terms of personal effort,  learning new skills and doing research (although as I have mentioned before the wish lists and frothing topics show , there seems to be no shortage of prototype knowledge out there, at least where it can be easily obtained from readily available publications). 

 

Why some of us bother is that there may be a commercial reason, deriving income from producing products, writing articles, books, etc. Others do it because of a belief that others might also enjoy the more creative side of the hobby, if only they tried it. I suggest that's part of your make up, a generosity of spirit shared with others that do demonstrations, organise shows, run Societies, assist specialist suppliers f.o.c., exhibit layouts, etc. at a personal cost either in time or financially (despite getting some expenses reimbursed).

 

Where we suffer disappointment is when people don't recognise or respect that "generosity". But that is what you get in society, givers and takers. So where we put ourselves out to help others, it is annoying that some respond in an immature and inconsiderate manner. However, there are still those, perhaps too few, who are willing to learn new skills, create more individual and realistic models. They appreciate getting help.

 

Jol

[Tony Wright]

Tony, in the DVD you were playing at the weekend there were some 'walking along' shots alongside a train.  Was that Jesse with his GoPro?

No, me. 

 

They were shot after Jesse went home, but he did give me the idea. 

[Tony Wright]

Tony,

 

I had the same question, but upon reflection suggest that the point is that we get enjoyment and satisfaction from what we do. There is also the "self interest" in keeping the more creative side of this hobby alive and well.

 

The hobby has increasingly moved towards using RTR products and away from kit building. Or perhaps better put that is has become easier, needing less input from the modeller in terms of personal effort,  learning new skills and doing research (although as I have mentioned before the wish lists and frothing topics show , there seems to be no shortage of prototype knowledge out there, at least where it can be easily obtained from readily available publications). 

 

Why some of us bother is that there may be a commercial reason, deriving income from producing products, writing articles, books, etc. Others do it because of a belief that others might also enjoy the more creative side of the hobby, if only they tried it. I suggest that's part of your make up, a generosity of spirit shared with others that do demonstrations, organise shows, run Societies, assist specialist suppliers f.o.c., exhibit layouts, etc. at a personal cost either in time or financially (despite getting some expenses reimbursed).

 

Where we suffer disappointment is when people don't recognise or respect that "generosity". But that is what you get in society, givers and takers. So where we put ourselves out to help others, it is annoying that some respond in an immature and inconsiderate manner. However, there are still those, perhaps too few, who are willing to learn new skills, create more individual and realistic models. They appreciate getting help.

 

Jol

Thanks Jol,

 

It's probably always been true that some folk 'respond in an immature and inconsiderate manner', but now they have the means to broadcast their responses to the world. They have that right, and the genie is definitely out of the bottle, and isn't going back. 

 

How could responses (or feelings) be expressed in the past? One had to write an article or write a letter. Or attend exhibitions and speak to folk face-to-face.

 

I'm no stranger to 'controversy'. Some years ago, Chris Hawkins (the editor of BRILL) received a letter from a Scotsman which was much more than vituperative, it was actually threatening. I'd had the temerity to write an article on Scottish Pacifics around Waverley. My word, by the time the (grammatically-incorrect) letter had been completed, the pen was no longer an instrument, it was a weapon! The point had gone through the (lined, exercise book) paper. 

 

When I was assistant editor of BRM, we used to receive some letters from nutters (can I say that? - Oh, I have) which we couldn't possibly publish because of legal ramifications. 

 

Finally, to turn the situation around. If someone had written a piece for a magazine around the lines of RTR being all that was necessary nowadays, that best practice need not be followed, that we should not help each other and that research was a waste of time, I wonder what would the response be from the likes of posters on here? Disagreement, I'm sure, but not the like of the venomous responses of some on social media. 

 

I think, with respect to all, it's best to draw a line underneath the whole thing now - at least on this thread. 

 

I'm just off to photograph a layout. It's not exactly prototype-based but it follows prototype practice. It's all one man's work and the builder is more than happy to exploit what the RTR market provides. However, he does improve it. It's exactly the sort of layout which should be featured in the press.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Killybegs]

I wonder where me and thee stand in the pecking order of having unbuild Airfix kits.

 

I  know a man that frequents herabouts that bought up the entire Airfix stock of a model shop in Leicester on its demise.

 

I think he has more cattle wagons (although most remain unbuilt) than BR ever did. I think he tops that particular hierarchy.

 

P

 

I bought 65 for next to nothing back in the early nineties, 35 built so far. Mine were a small part of a vast number of sprues that were rumoured to have been rescued from a skip at the factory. There was no proper packaging, wheels or transfers but someone had gone to the effort of bagging them up. 

[Mallard60022]

 

It's probably always been true that some folk 'respond in an immature and inconsiderate manner', but now they have the means to broadcast their responses to the world. They have that right, and the genie is definitely out of the bottle, and isn't going back. 

 

How could responses (or feelings) be expressed in the past? One had to write an article or write a letter. Or attend exhibitions and speak to folk face-to-face.

 

Tony. 

 

Nail and head Tony. I believe they can be termed Keyboard Warriors, however I would replace warrior with another word beginning with 'w'. Line drawn by me.

You stick to what you love and believe and keep on running as the great song once suggested.

Sincerely,

Phil (who should be in the loft but is still sitting here!) 

[RLBH]

I'm just off to photograph a layout. It's not exactly prototype-based but it follows prototype practice. It's all one man's work and the builder is more than happy to exploit what the RTR market provides. However, he does improve it. It's exactly the sort of layout which should be featured in the press.

This is what I aim towards - I've built a grand total of three Parkside wagons (well, built two and irrecoverably botched the third), and know that I've got a lot to learn. But I still plan on building where I can, modifying RTR where I must, and getting it right - i.e. in accordance with prototype practice -  even where, for the best of reasons, I don't precisely follow a prototype.

 

Is this elitist? I don't know. If it is, then I'm merely aspiring to the elite. It's certainly ambitious, and I don't see anything wrong with striving to develop new skills!

[MJI]

Airfix minerals turned into TOPS era MXV and MCV, a couple now with Chivers 21T minerals as MDVs.

 

So a short rake of worn out minerals to sit in a siding or get dragged by a 20, 25, or 31.

 

Then all of my cement wagons all modelled after a visit to a now closed cement place near Gloucester.

 

Tanks are all WIP, brake vans I need to fix a few and use them.

 

These lead onto other brands such as Cooper Craft, Cambrian, Parkside, Ratio.

 

Got a nice rake of tipplers (Parkside) as Westbury area based MSVs, will sit behind a Bath Road 47.

 

Most wagons are slightly modified, Airfix minerals all gained brakes, lost top flaps.

 

Lots of Parkside vans, mainly wide door VEV VWV types, a few tubes (STV), ONE plate (SPV) so far as quite a bit of work to modify the kit.

 

Mine all mine, no one else has the same wagons (I hope).

 

However a lot of them should sit in sidings as quite a few were heading for scrap.

[grahame]

Since my posts (#31130 and #31135) concerning modelling a bit of infrastructure, I've been plugging away with scalpel, cardboard and glue. Progress has been a little slow but I've got to breaking the back of the strange cantilevered section between the train-shed and Southwark Towers partially over the ramp, car park and Stainer Street (although the tinted glazing remains be done and also the painting).

 

Additionally I need to cast some of the train shed wall sections that sit on the viaduct arches/wall and the chemicals for that have now arrived. However, first I need to make a new RTV silicon rubber mould - luckily I've still got the master:

 

 

G.

 

 

 

 

[Lecorbusier]

I think, with respect to all, it's best to draw a line underneath the whole thing now - at least on this thread. 

 

Amen !