Wright writes.....

[CF MRC]

The Berlin wall might have come down, but my wall is slowly going up.

 

The upper three blind arch sections of the train-shed wall are resin castings from a home-made master/mould. Likewise the lower three arch viaduct sections. The others (the plainer two and road arch) were simply knocked up from mountboard card and brick embossed plasticard. Basically it is all scratch-built (and in N/2mm scale). It's probably not obvious from the pic below but the last section is at an angle to the others and the wall will continue in that plane:

 

DSC_7394.JPG

 

G

I can almost smell the stale wine barrel smell!

 

Tim

[Tony Wright]

I had a similar experience as a visitor at a local club, there to see whether I should break the habit of a lifetime and join up.The conversation at the bar got onto the Accurascale hoppers, and what great models they are.  To loud murmurs of agreement someone said that what was really great about them was the huge range of numbers being introduced, which meant that he didn't have t wait for years until he had enough different ones to make a proper train.  When I countered that it's easy enough to get some variety (by using t-cut or similar and commercial transfers they, to quote Alice's Restaurant, all went quiet and moved away from me on the bench there.  After reading this thread, I think the speaker probably worried about damaging the resale value of his investment.  And holding onto the good parts at least he wasn't happily running a train of identically-numbered wagons. 

 

It's a broad hobby and there is no place here for a moral judgement, but I was happy to go home to the peaceful ruination of another perfectly good kit, as I teach myself to use the airbrush.

 

Tone

Thanks Tone,

 

My word, doesn't this thread fizz along? I spend part of the morning in BRM's office, and another page is written! 

 

I think, in fairness, nobody on here makes 'moral judgements'. Contributors to this thread, it would appear to me, just get on with their modelling, are happy to show what they're doing (warts and all - especially me) and are very ready to offer assistance. There might well be 'just' collectors on RMweb, but they occupy a different section of the church - one of the aisles, perhaps? Or even one of the transepts? 

 

I've never been in the least bit interested in collecting. As many have said on here, if they use RTR stuff it's no more than a starting point to get more accurate/more realistic models. The 'value' to them is not in monetary terms - it has a much-higher value; it's value is in modelling. 

 

Which leads to a paradox of sorts, at least to me. I've mentioned before how firms like TMC offer a wide range of services (at all levels) for 'customising' one's models, at a cost; dependent on the amount of work to be done (including, would you believe it, charging for coaling a tender/bunker! Are there really folk out there in the hobby who cannot put coal, either crushed real coal or synthetic coal, into a tender/bunker? If one uses PVA, then there is no risk of causing damage). Add on the price of the 'mint' item, and it's a fair overall cost, especially if much has been done to the donor model. Presumably this then 'devalues' that model, at least in terms of its future of being a (potential) collectible item? I think the likes of TMC offer an excellent service, and there is an obvious market for the firm's skills, but collectors must be squirming with horror at times. 

 

Broad church or not, I think the difference between modellers and those who just collect in this realm will need the something bigger than the Anglican Cathedral in Liverpool to accommodate them (the largest church in the British Isles), because the gap is really wide in my view. Or, is that a moral judgement?  

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Nick Holliday]

My main question regarding lamps is if you have a terminus station and changing the displayed lamps isn't an option which is better? No lamps at all or having lamps on both front and rear of the locomotives? (And by extension tail lamps on front and rear of the trains)
Both options are wrong so what do you do if taking lamps on and off isn't an option? In effect, which is the lesser of the two 'evils' so to speak?

The GreenHowards posted this #31603 in reply

I recognise the problem, and IMHO life’s too short to be changing lamps every time a train turns round. OK the real railway did so, but they had an army of staff!

Personally I think that no lamps looks ‘naked’, so lamps on both ends is the lesser of the two evils. Most of my trains run round and round so it’s not a problem, but on those that terminate I have a lamp on each end of the loco and the train. The ones on the back of the loco/ front of the train are largely hidden when not needed, so it’s not a great problem. The push pull is a bigger problem, but that just gets class 2 lamps on both ends - how often does one photograph the back of the train?!

I’ll probably be put in the naughty corner now, but I will be there ‘defiantly’!

Andy

 

 

Contrary to the prognostications of experts, such as Bob Essery, the sky didn’t fall down if a loco failed to carry any lamps, or, even worse, the world didn’t come to an end if a loco carried both a headlamp and a tail light, as there are quite a few photos of such instances, particularly, but not exclusively, on the Central Section of the Southern Region.

For those of a nervous disposition, perhaps one shouldn’t look at this naked Ivatt tank on its train in deepest Surrey/Sussex border country

Or this loco committing the cardinal sin of having both head and tail codes at once, at Rowfant.

(Both pictures taken from the front covers of books, downloaded from the Oxfam website.)

I appreciate that these locations are on quiet single lines, but the Rudgwick train would have to brave the mainline between Christs Hospital and Horsham, however, the clock was ticking, and perhaps the staff had gone beyond caring.  However, it should be noted that some of the pre-grouping lines managed to work without the need for headcodes. The Highland in particular seemed to only require lamps in darkness, and the Caledonian and Cambrian Railways’ codes weren’t too complex either, and several lines, including the LNWR for trains running on the North London Railway, had a few codes which simply consisted of no lamps or discs at all.

Whilst I am not condoning the omission of headlamps, I am suggesting there is a little bit of wriggle room for those not quite so fastidious, and, as others have said, the problem is exacerbated by those who proudly display brilliant white, overscale, lamps, even if they are correctly located.  Looking at the real thing, the lamps are seldom bright white, even on prestigious trains, and it should be considered that the LMS had favoured black lamps during their lifetime, and this seems to have lingered, as with so many of these customs, almost to the end of steam. So I would suggest for situations like Andy has outlined, the use of a correctly sized lamps, either black or weathered white, at both ends might be the best option; they won’t scream out, but they will be there if an expert choses to pry closer.

[grahame]

 There might well be 'just' collectors on RMweb, but they occupy a different section of the church - one of the aisles, perhaps? Or even one of the transepts? 

 

 

More likely the retroquire, I'd suggest. Or maybe the crypt.

 

G

[petrovich]

Retrochoir I like that    It always amazes me with all the adaptations of words that people use on here for humorous or serious comment. This should be called Wright's Wordsmiths.

 

Regards

 

Peter

 

More likely the retroquire, I'd suggest. Or maybe the crypt.

 

G

[Tony Wright]

 

The GreenHowards posted this #31603 in reply

 

Contrary to the prognostications of experts, such as Bob Essery, the sky didn’t fall down if a loco failed to carry any lamps, or, even worse, the world didn’t come to an end if a loco carried both a headlamp and a tail light, as there are quite a few photos of such instances, particularly, but not exclusively, on the Central Section of the Southern Region.

For those of a nervous disposition, perhaps one shouldn’t look at this naked Ivatt tank on its train in deepest Surrey/Sussex border country

scbs.JPG

Or this loco committing the cardinal sin of having both head and tail codes at once, at Rowfant.

bric2.JPG

(Both pictures taken from the front covers of books, downloaded from the Oxfam website.)

I appreciate that these locations are on quiet single lines, but the Rudgwick train would have to brave the mainline between Christs Hospital and Horsham, however, the clock was ticking, and perhaps the staff had gone beyond caring.  However, it should be noted that some of the pre-grouping lines managed to work without the need for headcodes. The Highland in particular seemed to only require lamps in darkness, and the Caledonian and Cambrian Railways’ codes weren’t too complex either, and several lines, including the LNWR for trains running on the North London Railway, had a few codes which simply consisted of no lamps or discs at all.

cal headlamp.JPG

Whilst I am not condoning the omission of headlamps, I am suggesting there is a little bit of wriggle room for those not quite so fastidious, and, as others have said, the problem is exacerbated by those who proudly display brilliant white, overscale, lamps, even if they are correctly located.  Looking at the real thing, the lamps are seldom bright white, even on prestigious trains, and it should be considered that the LMS had favoured black lamps during their lifetime, and this seems to have lingered, as with so many of these customs, almost to the end of steam. So I would suggest for situations like Andy has outlined, the use of a correctly sized lamps, either black or weathered white, at both ends might be the best option; they won’t scream out, but they will be there if an expert choses to pry closer.

 

 

 

Thanks for posting, NIck. 

 

I've just reviewed the recent Strathwood book on the 9Fs, and one of the pictures illustrates a 9F entering Paddington on what's clearly passenger stock, yet the loco displays a light engine code. It is in forward gear, so it's not propelling empty stock out. 

 

That said, all the other pictures show working locos carrying the correct (or appropriate) lamps, so that was the norm.

 

As you say, discreet lamps, weathered down are ideal on models. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited January 21, 2019 by Tony Wright

[jamie92208]

More likely the retroquire, I'd suggest. Or maybe the crypt.

 

G

I would have thought the cloisters myself.

 

 

Anyway on a lightly more serious note can I make an appeal for some help. I am getting on nicely with my Midland 2-4-0 a Johnson loco in Deeley condition with roundtop boiler from a shedmaster (Now Laurie Griffin) kit. I've got a lot of footplate details on this week but have come to a bit of a halt due to lack of certain castings that are now en route from the UK. So today I could procrastinate no longer and made a start on assembling the boiler backhead. I have the aid of some lovely photos of cab interiors in my Jenkinson and Essery books and over the course of 2 hours today I sorted out all the assorted, and beautiful, lost wax brass castings and got the backhead trial assembled with various pieces of brass and copper wire soldered into various places. I'm going to paint the actual backhead black tonight (I'm also putting gloss black on some kitchen cupboard hinges at the same time) but could do with a decent reference colour photo of an Edwardian loco backhead. I'm aware that some pipes would be copper and that some fittings would be painted and some would be brass, but would be very grateful if anyone could post me a colour photo that I could use as reference. Obviously the ideal would be of 156 that's at Butterley but any loco from that era would be fine.

 

 

Yours in hope and expectation.

 

 

Jamie

[dibateg]

I always find it curious about affecting the value of models.. Do you have it for your own pleasure, or are you just keeping it nice for the next person that owns it?

 

Who knows what will happen to my models in the future, they might well be worthless. No doubt I'll get to a point where I 'm beyond caring!

 

So I shall enjoy them and life every day that I can...

 

Tony

[robertcwp]

Tony,

 

I agree with you but I do think some people simply lack confidence in their own ability to do a reasonable job and they fear damaging the model and thus reducing is potential value if sold.

 

I am often surprised at how often people on this forum refer to selling their models on and if you renumber or rename a model it no longer corresponds to its catalogue number and therefore is of no interest to collectors and this could reduce its potential value. I agree with Arun Sharma in thinking that most RTR models stay unaltered throughout their lives.

 

I model in EM and thus when I convert stock to EM and rename and renumber it I immediately reduce the value of that stock but as I’ve no intention of selling it, it does not bother me.

 

Sandra

My modelling abilities are somewhat more limited than Tony's or Sandra's. I could probably get a lot better but time and other demands are against me. However, I do often alter and improve RTR items, including renumbering and altering liveries, as well as weathering (haven't got onto the steam fleet in earnest yet though). I don't care about the resale value either because my models are bought to be used. They are all hacked about in some way or other, even if it's not much more than removing the couplings and fitting bars for Sprat & Winkle couplings. They are only sold on, often at near-scrap prices, when displaced by something better. 20 Bachmann 24s and 25s will probably be going that way at some point in the not-too-distant future.

[robertcwp]

Delete duplicate post. 

Edited January 21, 2019 by robertcwp

[john new]

I think the twist for older models is (a) are they valuable now and (b) have I a sentimental attachment to them, perhaps because they were gifted by a passed on loved one.

 

If (a) but not (b) I would tend to sell on now and replace with a new item whereas in scenario (b) probably leave them unaltered but not wrapped in cotton wool/un used.

[Lecorbusier]

I would have thought the cloisters myself.

 

 

Anyway on a lightly more serious note can I make an appeal for some help. I am getting on nicely with my Midland 2-4-0 a Johnson loco in Deeley condition with roundtop boiler from a shedmaster (Now Laurie Griffin) kit. I've got a lot of footplate details on this week but have come to a bit of a halt due to lack of certain castings that are now en route from the UK. So today I could procrastinate no longer and made a start on assembling the boiler backhead. I have the aid of some lovely photos of cab interiors in my Jenkinson and Essery books and over the course of 2 hours today I sorted out all the assorted, and beautiful, lost wax brass castings and got the backhead trial assembled with various pieces of brass and copper wire soldered into various places. I'm going to paint the actual backhead black tonight (I'm also putting gloss black on some kitchen cupboard hinges at the same time) but could do with a decent reference colour photo of an Edwardian loco backhead. I'm aware that some pipes would be copper and that some fittings would be painted and some would be brass, but would be very grateful if anyone could post me a colour photo that I could use as reference. Obviously the ideal would be of 156 that's at Butterley but any loco from that era would be fine.

 

 

Yours in hope and expectation.

 

 

Jamie

Any Good?

[Theakerr]

Putting coal in the tender can be fraught with difficulties!  I know of an individual who decided to 'have a go' and put coal in the tender of a brand new loco he had purchased.  The only problem was that he wasn't aware of the need to take the tender top off and when he added the glue copious amounts ran inside onto the decoder and other electrical goodies as well as onto the wheel frames leaving them in a bit of a state.  

Edited January 22, 2019 by Theakerr

[micklner]

On 21/01/2019 at 09:49, 31A said:

Regarding re-numbering and altering livery details, I was recently playing around with (yet another) second hand Hornby A3; changing 60035 "Windsor Lad" to 60039 "Sandwich".  In order to match the pictures I had of 60039 and match the details re. boiler, tender, AWS fitment etc. meant altering the BR device on the tender from first type to second type.  No matter what I did, the printed device on the tender was a pig to get off, seeming impervious to T-Cut, acrylic paint thinners, white spirit, Sharpie pen ink, and in fact eventually I'd used so much T-Cut that I'd gone through the green paint and revealed the black plastic beneath!  It was particularly the yellow printed parts that were problematic so before I'd got rid of them I'd gone beyond the point of no return so to speak by removing the other colours.  In the end I resorted to using a scalpel blade which is something I don't usually do as it risks damaging the surface of the plastic.  As a result, when it came to the cab side numbers I cheated and only removed the 5 to replace it with a Methfix 9.  Consequently 60039 has ended up rather dirtier than I at first intended, hopefully to disguise the black patches on the tender!

 

I think 60035 might have been one of the earliest Hornby A3s produced, and being always a Scottish engine probably why I'd never bought it earlier.

 

In contrast, I recently renumbered an L1 and the numbers came off easily, using Sharpie marker pen ink.

 

The results of my attention to the A3 can be seen in my recent post in "How Realistic are your Models", and also my "Train Spotting at Finsbury Square" threads.

I use a Swann Morton new 10  Curved  Blade on lettering etc. Gently brush the blade slowly across the lettering until the emblem etc is removed. I don't like T cut as it can change the colour of the paint as well as going through to plastic.

Edited February 7, 2019 by micklner

[APOLLO]

Tip - I use crushed real coal (there is NO substitute for the real thing) carefully placed in the tender. I fix this in place with several small drops of johnsons Klear from an eye dropper. Just a couple of drops mind. The Klear dries clear (!!). Don't forget to vary your coal loads, full, half full, virtually empty etc.

 

This is useful for tenders, mineral wagons, coal yards, ash and ballast piles etc.

 

Brit15

[Ben Alder]

Fully agree with you but more importantly would like to congratulate you on what I think must be the first Alice's Restaurant quote I've seen on RMWeb. As you know, you can get anything you want......excepting Alice! 

 

Jerry

Speaking of Alice....

 

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2397473066990311&set=g.2027996360817895&type=1&theater&ifg=1

Edited January 21, 2019 by Ben Alder

[Tony Wright]

Another page!

 

Thanks, as always, for all your comments. 

 

I've no wish to prolong the RTR/kit-building debate, because it'll always be open to debate; with valid points on both sides. 

 

What cannot be denied is the quantum jump made in more recent years in the quality of RTR - and not just in OO. 

 

How about this?

 

 

I'm writing a review of this Heljan O Gauge 43XX for BRM. I'm not exactly sure of the price, but I'm told it's under £700.00. For a model of this quality (it runs beautifully) that's exceptional value in my opinion. What would the price of an equivalent kit be? 

 

 

[CUTLER2579]

Tony,

I believe the Heljan 43xx only has pick ups on the tender and not the locomotive. If this is correct it seems a strange design ?

Regards Derek.

[jamie92208]

Any Good?

cab-controls-of-the-midland-railway-115-class-4-2-2-locomotive-at-F1X727.jpg2013-national-railway-museum-midland-spinner-4-2-2-673-cab.jpginside-the-cab-of-midland-railway-4-2-2-673-or-spinner-in-the-national-J5YHBB.jpg

Those are brilliant Tim, thanks very much. I had no idea where to look.

 

This is as far as I got today.

be about

 

As to Tony's question a kit of that type would probably be about £500 including wheels motor and gears. Then there wold be paint and transfers plus a few consumables. I'll have a look in my latest gazette and try and find details for a more accurate reply.

 

 

Jamie

Edited January 21, 2019 by jamie92208

[31A]

I use a Swann Morton new 10a Curved  Blade on lettering etc. Gently brush the blade slowly across the lettering until the emblem etc is removed. I don't like T cut as it can change the colour of the paint as well as going through to plastic.

 

Thanks Mick.  When I have tried using scalpel blades to remove markings I have usually ended up scratching the surface; probably I'm not patient enough and will try to be more careful next time!  You're right, T-Cut etc. can alter the colour or more often degree of shininess but I usually find a coat of Klear or a waft of satin varnish (and / or weathering) after the new transfers have been applied restores uniformity, but it would be better not to have to do so!

[sandra]

Thanks for posting, NIck. 

 

I've just reviewed the recent Strathwood book on the 9Fs, and one of the pictures illustrates a 9F entering Paddington on what's clearly passenger stock, yet the loco displays a light engine code. It is in forward gear, so it's not propelling empty stock out. 

 

That said, all the other pictures show working locos carrying the correct (or appropriate) lamps, so that was the norm.

 

As you say, discreet lamps, weathered down are ideal on models. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

 

Tony,

 

I have studied literally hundreds of photos of trains on the Waterloo to Exeter main line and I do not recall a single photograph of a train on that line which did not have the correct headcode. Of course on the Southern the headcode showed the route of the train not the class of train and during daylight hours this was shown by white discs and at night by lamps. So on my model of Andover Junction I do intend all locomotives to show the correct daylight codes. I did think of having separate locomotives with lamps for trains that ran at night (like most of the freight) but I thought that this may be taking things too far.

 

At Andover Junction as well as the main line there was a line down to Southampton and to Eastleigh and all these lines had different codes so the question of headcodes is more difficult for modellers of the Southern as to be strictly accurate separate locomotives have to be used according to the route and destination of the train. For example if a train were travelling from Waterloo to Exeter but was routed for some reason via East Putney rather than the direct line via Earlsfield it would have a different headcode.

 

Ideally the discs could be changed but in 4mm scale I do not think that this is really practical. Therefore I intend to fit all locos with a headcode but if the headcode might not be strictly accurate for the destination of the train then I will have to turn a blind eye to it.

 

Sandra

[CF MRC]

And now for something completely different:

 

 

A derelict building for CF, next to Gasworks Tunnel. More details in the 2mm section, quite fun making this up.

 

Tim

[newbryford]

 Are there really folk out there in the hobby who cannot are scared to put coal, either crushed real coal or synthetic coal, into a tender/bunker? 

 

 

 

Apologies for the selective edit, but - regardless of usage of PVA -  it reinforces my previous "fear of failure" comment, especially with respect to models that now cost three figure sums. See post #31680 above.

 

When I do my cut n shut demos at exhibitions, I often get the "I don't want to ruin an expensive model" response.My answer is to encourage folks to try and practice the techniques I show on models bought from the bargain/scrap baskets that are often found under stalls at exhibitions.

 

Cheers,

Mick

Edited January 22, 2019 by newbryford

[manna]

G'day Folks

 

Alice........Used to live next door to her..............

 

manna

[St Enodoc]

G'day Folks

 

Alice........Used to live next door to her..............

 

manna

You'll get used to it...