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Those of a nervous disposition may wish to stop reading now. For many years, I have been using my resistance soldering unit to assemble etched kits. I use Carr's solder paste to which I add a little Powerflow flux. This results in nice clean joints which require very little cleaning up. None of my locos or items of rolling stock have fallen apart yet.

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On 15/02/2019 at 09:01, gr.king said:

I'd be interested to hear some convincing explanation of what is actually happening to trustytrev's iron, flux and solder, as opposed to simply hearing suggestions and recommendations of alternative solders and fluxes. It may be a completely different problem, but I notice on those relatively few occasions when I use a 60 watt iron rather than my usual 25 watt iron, that my usual flux is rapidly cremated on the tip of the iron, which ceases to tin properly, also suffers erosion and needs vigorous cleaning. I can only work with paste flux using this iron, liquid flux containing phosphoric acid simply being vaporised from any joint before it has time to act. The fouling and erosion of the tip of this hotter and more powerful iron has always been such that it lost its plating at a very early stage and can now only be made fit for use with a file!

Despite this request for reasons as to why soldering iron tips corrode/get covered in crud, it seems that the majority of responses have been a variety of the "what works for me" type.

 

Several made reference to self cleaning flux, but an online search as to how these work, i.e. self clean, produces little actual evidence. The most  information I could find is in this extract from a US plumbing industry site.

 

"And Then There's Flux...

We wouldn't be doing anyone any favors if we didn't touch on the available fluxes to complete your job. Where there is flux, you will find solder and, unfortunately, the reverse of that is true also. Flux (and its residue) is a major consideration in the solder joining process.

There are two basic styles of flux, petroleum based and water soluble. Petroleum based fluxes are highly corrosive and require a chemical cleaner to remove residue from the internal and external piping system, not to mention cleaning your tools and yourself. I have watched many plumbers wipe joints with a wet rag after soldering to get rid of the flux. Guess what? That water won't remove the flux's petroleum base. What it will do is make a nice tight ring of flux close to the fitting that will eventually turn black.

ASTM B813 (water soluble) style fluxes are formulated with two distinct advantages. First there's a limit set on the corrosive nature of the product, far reduced from the non-specified petroleum based fluxes. Second, and most important, is that the post-soldering residue must be soluble in hot and cold water. Now that wet rag really works to remove flux from the outside of the pipe and water flow cleans the flux away from the inside. From a user's standpoint, that means no more black fingertips and the burning that petroleum flux can cause in small cuts.

One small point on "self-cleaning" fluxes. Every flux is self-cleaning because every flux contains chlorides that chemically etch copper. Petroleum fluxes need a little heat to clean, water soluble clean on contact-neither is formulated to skip the all important step of mechanical cleaning."

 

Ironically self cleaning Powerflow Flux (in the yellow tube and a favorite with some model makers) does seem to cause corrosion problems over a period if not thoroughly washed off. It may be no different from other self cleaning plumbers fluxes. One highly regarded professional painter once told me that he would decline to paint a model if he found it was soldered with Powerflow as he had several returned after a period of time with paint lifting off around soldered joints due to corrosion. These self cleaning fluxes seem to be supplied to the plumbing industry, presumably because a flow of water washes away any residue within a short period and, being a paste is easier to apply and keep in place when assembling pipes and fittings.

 

To keep up the "what works for me" theme, I use 145 solder and 125 Phosflux from London Road Models. Plus, as mentioned in the quoted extract, washing the work (model) at the end of the day, when I wash my hands on returning from the workshop. IIRC,  the late John Hayes, whose beautifully built Finney kit models graced the early editions of MRJ always put his work into very dilute solution of caustic soda at the end of each day followed by thorough rinsing in warm water, the alkaline solution neutralising any remaining flux inside and out, as well as cleaning the metal. I give mine a light scrub with a small amount of Cif, which has the much the same effect.

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2 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Soldering is for wimps, I've gone over to welding to supplement my riverting skills.

Hi Andrew

 

When I left the army I went for a job at Marconi's and at the interview was asked could I solder, I said I couldn't but I was use to doing welding. The chap interviewing me said, "It is much the same some heat and joining to bits of metal together". I got the job.

 

It that hot or cold riveting?

Edited by Clive Mortimore
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1 hour ago, Killybegs said:

Those of a nervous disposition may wish to stop reading now. For many years, I have been using my resistance soldering unit to assemble etched kits. I use Carr's solder paste to which I add a little Powerflow flux. This results in nice clean joints which require very little cleaning up. None of my locos or items of rolling stock have fallen apart yet.

 

I've had good results with the Carr's paste as well. I must have built quite a few chassis with it, as well as general layout wiring. I'm more likely to use 145 degree and Carr's green flux now but I still fall back on the solder paste now and then, and it's very handy for applying a small amount of solder to small, fiddly areas.

 

Al

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1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Andrew

 

When I left the army I went for a job at Marconi's and at the interview was asked could I solder, I said I couldn't but I was use to doing welding. The chap interviewing me said, "It is much the same some heat and joining to bits of metal together". I got the job.

 

It that hot or cold riveting?

 

Afternoon Clive,

 

neither hot or cold riveting, wet riveting, being little resin transfers. My welding tends to be of the liquid poly and plasticard type but it is still very manly. Right, I'm away to fire up my 750 megawatt iron and spray molecular acid about the work room. It tastes nice with a drop of tomatoes juice.

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13 hours ago, Nickey Line said:

 

 That's odd... as I'm running a bit short thought I'd stock up... worked fine for me.

I think you might have clicked the on basket alongside the Virtuemart logo, which is actually part of the logo...!

 

 

Worked OK this morning - duly ordered.

 

Thanks,

John Isherwood.

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14 hours ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

I use this stuff for everything but stainless steel now. Worth a trial for less than a fiver post paid even if you dislike it and chuck it out. Only two left.

 

Originally recommended to me by TBG.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Templers-Telux-Soldering-Flux-50g-For-Copper-Pipework-Brass-and-Mild-Steel/151351510986?epid=1340031504&hash=item233d40c7ca:g:GCsAAOSw43Ba4JOd:rk:13:pf:0

 

P

 

Sold out - but ordered elsewhere,

 

Thanks,

John Isherwood.

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On ‎14‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 16:12, Atso said:

 

Thank you Andrew. I've removed it from the CAD file now and I think that its omission is far less noticeable than the wavy version pictured above.

 

I've also been working on the next coach in the formation, a GN Diagram 183 lavatory composite brake. I'll need two of these and I've found that its length is just about the maximum I can squeeze onto the build plate for my printer.

 

775745272_D183LavCompBrake14-2-19.jpg.ffe31fb5fa3f05c0c3bfa4f4b61d06a7.jpg

 

 

Having had the privilege of examining  some of your models and talking to you in TW's corner at Biggy today, I must offer my congratulations on some lovely pieces of modelling.  I would agree with Tony that 4mm versions could well be popular if they could be made available.

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Not long returned from a lovely day at the Biggleswade Show. My thanks to all at the East Beds Club for looking after Mo and me so well and for putting on such a friendly (and high-quality) event. 

 

1663580992_LittleSalkeld11.jpg.1467b561338a3542375cad6cdb403f03.jpg

 

The star of the show for me was Little Salkeld in N, built by Paul Moss. It really is beautiful work.

 

Speaking of beautiful work, Steve (Atso) brought along some of his 3D-printed carriages in 2mm/N. These are some of the finest models (in any scale) I've ever seen, and it'll be my privilege to photograph them in the not-too-distant future. 

 

I was able to fix a couple of models, and some more money will be heading to CRUK. Not only that, many of the donated RTR models were sold on the club second-hand stall; again the monies will be going to CRUK. 

 

All the loco kits being sold on behalf of a bereaved family have gone as well, as well as loads of bits and pieces. My thanks to all the purchasers. 

 

I'm frequently (now) not surprised when some folk question the price I'll put on a kit. I had a mostly-built Millholme Stanier Mogul for sale. It included all wheels (Romfords/Markits), a Mashima motor and a Branchlines' gearbox. For the price I asked, effectively the kit came free (with a few bonus bits as well). Yet, some quibble about this. Thankfully, a very-enlightened builder bought it and two more kits as well. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, 2750Papyrus said:

 

Having had the privilege of examining  some of your models and talking to you in TW's corner at Biggy today, I must offer my congratulations on some lovely pieces of modelling.  I would agree with Tony that 4mm versions could well be popular if they could be made available.

Having been brought up in Bedford, and I still have family there,  I can say I never heard any one refer to Biggleswade as Biggy. I have heard it being called lots of other things and I am sure over cooked Dave will have even more names for it but never Biggy. Even when my brother worked there he always called it Biggleswade. 

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Well my 25+ year old DJH A2 kit has had its first real test run.  Valve gear to be added after a period of test running with a coach load.  Only a few blue sparks in the dark and easily fixed.  Right away running was 'not too bad' but that short wheel-base did not like my insulated points (installed 30 years ago) so I had to instal tender pickups.  The DCC concepts pickup unit fits perfectly over the hole for one of the tender mounts, so I thought this would be an easy installation.  Not so.  Took me some time to click to the fact that what I thought were chemically blackened steel wheels were in fact chemically blackened brass wheels and did not conduct.  Grinding off the blackening solved the problem, but I suspect based on previous experience with brass cleaning will be an ongoing chore.  Replacing the brass wheels with steel is not really an option because I soldered the tender frame together.   Only problem I haven't solved is how to straighten out a vacuum brake pipe unit.  As received it is too short for the front so I tried straightening the curved end out.  Broke; as did two others that I had in stock.  I tried letting one of them sit in pretty hot water but it also broke.  Looks a bit like an inherent casting problem.  

BTW Over here is Canada

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58 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Having been brought up in Bedford, and I still have family there,  I can say I never heard any one refer to Biggleswade as Biggy. I have heard it being called lots of other things and I am sure over cooked Dave will have even more names for it but never Biggy. Even when my brother worked there he always called it Biggleswade. 

Maybe it is a texting/internet thing for abbreviations sake as it is called Biggy on Facebook. 

 

I was brought up in Potters Bar and some members of the local Facebook group call it Potty. I never heard this when I lived there for 25+ years. Mind you the station staff used to call out 'Pott Bar' when a train arrived.

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4 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Having been brought up in Bedford, and I still have family there,  I can say I never heard any one refer to Biggleswade as Biggy. I have heard it being called lots of other things and I am sure over cooked Dave will have even more names for it but never Biggy. Even when my brother worked there he always called it Biggleswade. 

 

I have heard it called Biggy as well as Biggleswiggle, most other names are generally unrepeatable.

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4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Not long returned from a lovely day at the Biggleswade Show. My thanks to all at the East Beds Club for looking after Mo and me so well and for putting on such a friendly (and high-quality) event. 

 

1663580992_LittleSalkeld11.jpg.1467b561338a3542375cad6cdb403f03.jpg

 

The star of the show for me was Little Salkeld in N, built by Paul Moss. It really is beautiful work.

 

Speaking of beautiful work, Steve (Atso) brought along some of his 3D-printed carriages in 2mm/N. These are some of the finest models (in any scale) I've ever seen, and it'll be my privilege to photograph them in the not-too-distant future. 

 

I was able to fix a couple of models, and some more money will be heading to CRUK. Not only that, many of the donated RTR models were sold on the club second-hand stall; again the monies will be going to CRUK. 

 

All the loco kits being sold on behalf of a bereaved family have gone as well, as well as loads of bits and pieces. My thanks to all the purchasers. 

 

I'm frequently (now) not surprised when some folk question the price I'll put on a kit. I had a mostly-built Millholme Stanier Mogul for sale. It included all wheels (Romfords/Markits), a Mashima motor and a Branchlines' gearbox. For the price I asked, effectively the kit came free (with a few bonus bits as well). Yet, some quibble about this. Thankfully, a very-enlightened builder bought it and two more kits as well. 

 

 

 

Many thanks Tony, as always we enjoyed hosting yourself and Mo.  I also spoke to Steve (Also) and those coaches are superb!

 

When packing up I asked the traders whether they'd had a good day or not. They had and remarked that it was because it was attended by those who model rather than purchase RTR. We were very pleased to hear that, as it makes the hard work worthwhile.

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10 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

 

Many thanks Tony, as always we enjoyed hosting yourself and Mo.  I also spoke to Steve (Also) and those coaches are superb!

 

When packing up I asked the traders whether they'd had a good day or not. They had and remarked that it was because it was attended by those who model rather than purchase RTR. We were very pleased to hear that, as it makes the hard work worthwhile.

Thanks again, Dave,

 

And thanks too, to your fellow club members who did such a splendid job in selling many of the donated locos and items for CRUK. By the end of this week, I'll have sent a cheque to the charity which makes the overall donation in excess of £1,000.00 this year already (and we're still only in February!). This also includes donations made to me by those who 'liked' the recent Youtube footage. Should I shoot some more? 

 

Thanks once again for all the most-generous donations. 

 

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21 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

By the end of this week, I'll have sent a cheque to the charity which makes the overall donation in excess of £1,000.00 this year already (and we're still only in February!). This also includes donations made to me by those who 'liked' the recent Youtube footage. Should I shoot some more? 

 

Thanks once again for all the most-generous donations. 

 

 

Definitely let's have some more Tony. To your £1,000 you can add donations that I and I'm sure many others have sent to CRUK directly after watching your previous offerings. As a firmly committed S7 Midland modeller I find LB and your videos fascinating, which says a lot about the quality of the modelling and the presentation.

 

Best wishes and keep it up.

 

Dave

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On ‎16‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 20:01, Tony Wright said:

Not long returned from a lovely day at the Biggleswade Show. My thanks to all at the East Beds Club for looking after Mo and me so well and for putting on such a friendly (and high-quality) event. 

 

1663580992_LittleSalkeld11.jpg.1467b561338a3542375cad6cdb403f03.jpg

 

The star of the show for me was Little Salkeld in N, built by Paul Moss. It really is beautiful work.

 

 

Yes, Little Salkeld does look very nicely observed and modelled. The code 40 N gauge track is particularly fine and impressive.

 

G. 

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On 17/02/2019 at 10:41, Tony Wright said:

Should I shoot some more? 

 

Maybe when the replacement M&GN bridge is in situ?  It would be good to see how much of a difference that makes...

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Hello Tony, Geoff and Dave!

 

It was so good to see both of you on Saturday, it was a wonderful show.

 

Little Salkeld stood out to me as well, but I wondered if that is due to a natural leaning towards N gauge as it is my chosen scale. It was also great to see the Great Northern Railway Society at the event - I refrained from purchase yet another of their really useful books on this occasion!

 

Thank you both for your kind comments on my coaches. However, I would not describe them as fine models - that I would reserve for the likes of the Copenhagen Fields and Grantham teams in the world of the LNER! They are (or rather will be) layout coaches, designed for quick construction over finesse and suitable for watching race by - and on the rare occasions when any will stop at Hadley Wood, they will be partly obscured by the waiting rooms and bridge. These are the start of my effort to more realistically represent the kinds of passenger trains that would have travelled through Hadley Wood between 1932 and 1939. There will inevitably had to be some compromises but it will be better than having rakes just made up of Dapol and Minitrix Gresley 61' coaches - might even sell some of my collection of these as it has become apparent that I have far too many!

Edited by Atso
Edited as I'd forgotten that I met Geoff! Sorry!
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